Having trouble with the site eRentpayment
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 30 votes
Disclosure - I am the Founder/CEO at Cozy
This has been a tough few days for many landlords, and we understand your fears, concerns, and frustrations. Thank you to those of you asking about our methods. Let me share why we believe landlords and renters using Cozy will not experience a similar result to the recent event.
First, and perhaps most importantly, we work with Stripe for payment processing. Stripe operates in 25 countries, and they’re a company clearly set up for the long term. Stripe is a $9 Billion company and is widely regarded as a trusted payment processor. Stripe handles payments for tons of awesome companies, including, coincidentally, BiggerPockets.
While we have many internal safeguards that I’ll talk about in a second, understand that Cozy never takes custody of your funds during a payment transaction. Our processing partner Stripe is a licensed money transmitter, and moves your money on our behalf. Funds travel from renters’ bank accounts and credit cards and are deposited in landlords’ bank accounts via the ACH system. Cozy has no access to your money while it’s in transit.
eRentPayment in a recent statement said the following:
“We regret to inform you that our payment processor, eCheckit, has informed us that it expects to file for bankruptcy protection shortly. We are told that it suffered losses due to a fraud and that its processor, Check Commerce, has held over $4 million of its funds and will not release the funds to the intended recipients at this time.”
We believe it to be extremely unlikely that Stripe will experience an issue like this. Their underpinnings are built with Wells Fargo, which is the fourth largest bank in the United States.
Of course, this is not the only issue that may affect your security when processing rent payments, so we have additional buffers in place to add additional security:
1) Our Trust & Safety team ensures that every single Cozy payment goes through several layers of fraud detection. These include internal proprietary software, external partners such as Sift Science, and humans at Cozy.
2) We employ a rigorous software development process. Every code change is backed with automated tests and reviewed by at least two engineers. Cozy has to work reliably. We understand how costly bugs can be, like when Knight Capital lost $441 million in 45 minutes.
3) We keep our infrastructure up to date, which ensures that we receive security updates as soon as possible. The recent Equifax breach was a result of a security update that took months to apply. Similar updates to Cozy’s environment are applied in days, or even the same day, for critical vulnerabilities.
4) We actively and voluntarily pursue data security. Cozy is voluntarily compliant with PCI DSS, even though we do not store your credit card information. (It’s in Stripe, so why also store it on Cozy?) PCI DSS is one of the most stringent organizational security standards in financial technology. We hire third-party security specialists to perform yearly audits. For example, the leak of credit card information at Home Depot in 2014 was due to insufficient PCI DSS compliance.
@Marcus Maloney ok great. just un update everyone. all 8 of our tenant filed R10 claims at the bank. (if you want to know more about what this, how to do it, etc ... join the facebook group "erentpayment discussion group" and search the threads for R10 or my husbands name Rudo Catlin) ...
3 of our tenants successfully got their money back today and have resubmitted the rent payments to us using zelle. and surprisingly enough the payment was deposited into out account SAME DAY with zelle. the 3 tenants banked with citizen, pnc, pescu and my bank is capital one.
all 3 tenants were originally listed at processing (not deposited) in erentpayment.
we only received erentpayment notification for one of these tenants returns. so you have to have trust worthy tenants who will tell you when they got their money back.
we can no longer appear to have access to our erentpayment account. when we try to log in we get the following error code.
ErrorYour previous operation did not complete and has been logged. Please return to the previous screen or contact us here.
Holy moly - this sounds scary and a lot of investors use erentpayment on BP. Is this worthy of a sticky or something? This would be a huge PSA.
Erent payment handles our online rent payment processing. They informed me and all their clients via facebook that any rent payments collected on our behalf between oct 2d and oct 11th were unrecoverable due to their bank (eCheckit ??) filing chapter 7 bankruptcy.
We have $450 worth of payments taken from our tenants they have not forwarded to us, claiming that we need to convince our tenant to ask the bank to reverse the charges. Many banks have refused due to the nature of the claim. We feel this is unacceptable. Erent acts simply to move money from one place to another. There should be no way for this money to be lost that isn't personally guaranteed by erentpayment.com
Already there are reports of property managers losing their jobs (for choosing to use eRentPayment.com) and landlords literally being ruined overnight. This story is now on several local news channels
Im surprised that anyone has actually received anything from them. I have attempted to contact them several times - just an automated message that "we will reply soon as possible" or similar. Ive received no other communication from erentpayment... nothing, period!
There is NO WAY I will use them in the future, nor any company that @Rick S. is associated with. I get the fact that he has some big problems at the moment and people are pissed - however the lack of communication only lets one assume the worst. The saying "In God we trust, all others pay cash" is starting to bear more meaning at this juncture.
While I didnt get banged up badly in this (only 1 of our tenants), its still enough to necessitate re-architecting the strategy of using a company like erentpayment. Yes, its super convenient and made things incredibly easy... Im not however willing to pay the price in the event another processor melts down like this one has. Ive already told our tenants its back to checks and money orders... and be DARN SURE the postmark is not later than the due date for now. Ill probably change the leases to say like a credit card company does, In our posession by 5pm ON THE DUE DATE. (but that's a different topic).
Drew Wiard, as you can see from the rest of the posts, the devil doesn't have much of a leg to stand on here any more, haha! But it does look like ONLY payments made between October 2d and 11th are at play here. Hence your being out of the loop of disaster. If yours cleared on the 5th, that means the payments were made, most likely on or around the 1st. ONE MORE DAY and you'd be buying a pitchfork too.
Marcus, I did have one payment showing as processed, AND showing up in my bank that was later changed to to pending AND disappeared from my bank account. This payment was made on October 4th. I'm trying to get them to reverse it on their own and even sent them screen shot showing it having been processed.
Prayers with you all that have alot of money at stake here.
ERENTPAYMENT BLOG UPDATE ..... here is an example letter:
Dear [BANK REPRESENTATIVE NAME], My name is [Tenant NAME], and I used eRentPayment to pay [LANDLORD NAME] in the amount of [LAST PAYMENT AMOUNT] on October [DATE OF PAYMENT], 2017. I have learned that my last payment was not completed due to a problem with eRentPayment’s third-party processor. I am writing to file a dispute for this charge for reason: R10 as an “Incomplete Transaction.” I am informed that NACHA has confirmed that R10 is the appropriate reason code in such circumstances and that the ODFI has agreed to accept the R10s for the dispute in question. Please refer to Ballot 4-12 for additional information on an Incomplete Transaction (http://www.neach.org/uploads/resources/doc/nacha_ballot_4_2012.pdf) or as the description for R10 is: “Customer Advises Unauthorized, Improper, Ineligible, or part of an Incomplete Transaction.” I request that my charge be cancelled, and the funds be returned in full to my account. Please confirm. Thank you, [TENANT NAME] -----------------------------------------------END BLOG POST ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------MY FYI ... NACHA is the organization that manages the development, administration, and governance of the ACH Network, the backbone for the electronic movement of money and data in the United States and is funded by the financial institutions it governs. (source wikipedia) and you can probably update this letter to mention the NACHA rep overseeing this mess ... Jeanette Fox, Senior director for Risk Investigations and Research at NACHA //Ive mentioned it before - especially on the Facebook group, but really, shame on ALL of us that have monies in limbo with erentpayment. Its clear that our due-diligence fell apart and we were lured by "low fees" and the promise of swift and easy transactions.... but not one of us that are seeking reimbursement would have EVER entered into any financial arrangement with a company like this if we had actually looked behind the curtain.
Who builds a business that processes millions - and Im going to guess that its run in a basement or garage. I sure would seem that way with the response were getting. No email communication, a phone that's not being answered, updates that are suspect at best (and posted to Facebook of all places.... what about their own Website?)
In hindsight the posts that were actually made to the public on the support pages should have been an immediate tip-off to run, poor grammar and confusing drivel.... While I've never fallen for the nigerian scammer, this appears to be pretty close. There is an old saying - you get what you pay for, and in this instance it couldn't hold truer.
Im hopeful that my affected tenant received his money through the R10 process, however this one squarely lies on my shoulders, the owner / landlord / manager. This operator @Rick S. (and even more interesting - doesn't share his full name with the community) has served as a warning and paved the way for some really intense scrutiny of his competition in coming months. Only time will tell as well as the money trail in this one, but for me its been one hell of a wakeup call in evaluating all of our partner relationships.
I first knew something was quite serious when the emails I sent to eRentPayment on 10/18 went unanswered. Then I started my google search to find all of you here showing concerns about "pending" deposits as early as 10/13. I am only now having the time to chime in to share our situation and I jump ahead as I have had many days to absorb the magnitude of this situation. I have gleamed much from everyone's time lines. As far as I can tell the actions that eRentPayment took in their 10/3 "news" update titled "Processing Schedule for Early October" was a precursor for what was to come. They knew they were in trouble then and likely new as early as September 28th when they added the "October 1st Processing" news update.
Now to 10/24:
eRentPayment had listed rents in our account as "processed" and in some cases still "pending" only to find out after their site was up again after being down on 10/23 that now many more of the rents that had "processed" status are now set to "pending." At this point our accounting shows $25,991 being held in limbo. My office worked quickly to remove tenants reoccurring payments and set all payment processing to "block". I do not want to remove each clients' profiles from eRentPayment because they may need access to see their payment history. Many of our tenants stated they saw their payment as "processed." Now when they log in they see it as "pending" - even though their payments have been deducted from their bank accounts. All of these funds were initiated to process (Scheduled date) between 10/3 and 10/13. My tenants are doing what they can to get these payments reversed. Most all so far have been unsuccessful - even with steps taken to write letters under the guise of "R10" rules.
I have been happy with erentpayment till now, mostly because they are not communicating. Why should you have to go to BiggerPockets or Facebook to get information? Why is it not emailed out or posted on their website? A notice posted on the website last Thursday, Oct 19th, said pending deposits made after Oct 12 would be deposited shortly. I think 5 days later and still no deposit is past shortly. The website was down yesterday to convert to the new processor, but still I see no deposit. With all this happening, their latest post is yesterday afternoon. They are not answering phones or returning emails. Lack of communication with the latest information makes it look like a scam is happening.
Has anyone seen any deposits since yesterday evening?
we too are having the same issue and very frustrated. What we are doing is turning everything over to our Lawyers. Not something we like doing. But like another member said, this is a business and we have mortgages that need to be payed.
Im in the same boat. Payment from tenant was made on the 18th. No money and its the 25th. I called them, the message says to send an email! This is ridiculous! They screwed me out of $1500. Never had a problem with them before. No communication, no money, no phone support. The response I read from them is a joke. They have a "problem". Well why the hell should I care about their "problem"? My tenants dont care about my problems. I gotta find that Facebook page everybody is talking about.
So we pretty much confirmed that erentpayment has cheated, weather by neglect or intent is yet to be determined.
But just who did they cheat?
Who should be the victim here? The tenant who made the payment faithfully or the landlord who's simply made the convenience of online pay available.
Both cannot be the victim. As landlords do we let the tenant know that we still expect payment? Or do we acknowledge their good faith attempt and absorb the loss ourselves? Looking forward to hear the PB business community response.
@Jerry O. you legally can't hold tenants responsible if they have proof the $ came out their account. I've been told by lawyer that even threatening to do so tied to a request for them to file R10 claims at bank Cld land me with a harrassment suit.
I told my tenant he's in the clear. He sent me a screenshot of the transaction and that it had posted to his account. I'd rather stay on good terms with him. If he files a dispute and gets the money back then maybe I can get a check. Problem is, how am I gonna know he got the money back? He can claim he never did. I can't verify that... We're doomed. There is no good way out of this. Some people are letting their tenants keep 1/4th of the returned rent if they filed a dispute with their bank and received the money back. I don't know about that...
Be Aware. I just found out that ERPs reports are also not accurate. I have ERPs deposit report dated 10/20 and one dated 10/26. The 10/26 is now missing deposits that showed as processed on the 10/20 report. Dates missing are 10/13 and 10/12 deposits. The reports have been changed. Suggest that everyone really validated reports to bank accounts. The deposits that were listed as "processed" on the 10/20 report did not hit my bank account. I sent a note to ERP and they have not responded.
I've been using erentpayment for a number of years on multiple properties. It's now coming up on a month and still no funds. I get the runaround from erentpayment and from CheckCommerce which, as I understand, now holds my funds hostage. I've now inconvenienced my tenants to spend time at the bank trying to get the transaction reversed (per erentpayment's direction) and have not had success in getting their funds returned. Not sure what legal recourse there is or if there is a class action option available. Has anyone checked out these options?
We have used eRentPayment for many years and sad to hear this happened. Notified Tenants the need to file R10 claims, but I think this will take time. How many BP members have suspended the use of eRentPayment?
Seems like thousands of Landlords are affected, and if there is a class action, please post it here and let us know!
I suspended eRentPayment as soon as they posted that they couldn't say when, if ever, I'd get my rent. It would be foolish to continue with them. Latest news is that the trustee of the bankruptcy of ECheckIt has petitioned the court to stop R10 claims. Time is of the essence!
Yesterday I had a tenant go their bank to request the R10 return. The bank was very helpful and processed the return. I sent the tenant to the bank with a packet of information about what had occurred that i had printed from the erentpayment website. According to the bank the money should be back in their account in a matter of days. I have two other tenants that I have talked to about going to the bank. Hopefully they will have the same experience.
I had used erentpayment for years without an issue. I lost rent money from their recent screw up. If they would have addressed their issues and maintained routine contact with those affected by the loss, I would have thought about continuing with them. They did EVERYTHING wrong in their response to this situation and I am done with them, as it shows they have no idea how to run a proper business.
Anyone have any updates on this? My tenant has contacted his bank (Wells Fargo) twice now to get the $ back using the R10 code, with no success. WF stated that since the transaction from the bank to eRentPayment went through properly, it is between me and erentpayment. I am not going to pursue this avenue anymore, as it is not fair to the tenants - they paid their rent and held up their side of the bargain. Frankly, I agree with WF that this is between erentpayment and landlords, and it should not be on the tenants and banks to resolve.
Is anyone pursuing legal action to attempt to get their money back? If there is a class action lawsuit or something in the works, please contact me. I am out $3,500 because of these guys! As most of these are probably relatively small claims, it would be more efficient to pool resources together to minimize legal fees. Also, if echeckit is going through bankruptcy because of this, i would think that all of us whose money they took should be paid out through the bankruptcy proceedings.
@Christopher D. - get on Facebook and search "erentpayment discussion group", join that and there is a TON of information regarding eRent. About the only way to get this handled is through the R10 process. THere are several resources in the FB group on how to do that with links to documentation from ACH personnel that explicitly tells the banks to do it, and why. Also has contact info for the ACH people should the bank have any issues.
As eCheckit is in bankruptcy you need to move quick. Ive found that offering a substantial incentive to your tenant will give them motivation to go to the bank again. Look at it this way, would you rather collect 100% of nothing or 75-80% of your rent? (get my drift on "motivation")?
I met with several other landlords over the weekend in Knoxville at a Multi-Family event, @Lucas Hall (he is a senior guy with Cozy) was there and went into great detail on what happened, and how cozy is different. Im in the process of moving to cozy as I type this. If you have direct questions please PM me.
Good Luck!
Matt