BEWARE of fraud by erentpayment.com
Karen HigginsPro Member
Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2017 · 83 posts · 89 votesWe are currently in the middle of a scam by erentpayment.com. They have taken money deposited by our tenants and have refused to pay us. They have been very limiting with information and turned their phones off and are not replying to emails. Cancel all automated payments if you currently use their system. We are starting the legal process to take action. I'm guessing they have taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from people. Help spread the word so others are not hurt by this.
My wife found this company on bigger pockets. She most definitely is in the right, and boarder line obligated to inform the public that a company that used to accept payments from tenants, and disburse the funds to landlords is no longer longer disbursing the funds to landlords. Furthermore, they have shutoff their phones and customer service department, not updated their customers as to the status of their funds, and refused to name their banking institutions or legal representation that they are using.
This is most certainly a fraud, and a large one. If not, they should be updating their customer base as to where their money is at, and when they will get it. This rent collection and payment scheme is the perfect Ponzi scheme. They take a clients money and can move it from bank to bank like it's their own money. (Matt, thats apparently what you think happened). Thus, proving the lack of oversight involved in this kind of business/industry. As long as they can grow their customer base the scheme continues. The creator doesn't even have to put himself out there as the frontman of the scheme, and can hide behind an LLC. Interestingly, Rick S is a "pro" member, claims to be the manager or owner, and has 397 post on bigger pockets. I encourage him to comment, or better yet send me my 13,000$. At this point I doubt either will happen.
I hope I'm wrong, but when the company shuts off the phone and fails to deliver on the "updates" they promise. You have to fear the worse. This company is still accepting "new" money and the public needs to know. I don't want to come across as confrontational, but the public needs to be made aware of the problem/fraud.
I just disabled all my payments. Have to scroll all the way to the bottom, #27, click drop down to disable.
Thank You Richard!
I own/manage a dozen or so units so these monthly fees were for my units sizes. I looked at probably 20-25 different sites (appfolio, buildium, rentec, etc). Cozy seems good for me now. As I scale my rentals along with my PM biz I may switch down the road. That was my goal with ERP but they kind of forced my hand.
Pretty good spreadsheet, and I was thinking about Cozy as well. My only concerns are that they don't automatically add on the late fee and that they only do customer service through email. I was hoping for at least a live chat.
To disable a property in ERP:
Click the Properties tab
Click the Edit button on the property
Change the Payment Status dropdown to 'Disabled'
Click Save changes
You should receive a confirmation email
I actually deleted a property the other day but, when I tried to do it again, the option wasn't there.
I was able to get someone from Cozy on the phone. You can schedule a phone call from their website. I followed up with an email asking for an earlier call if a slot opened up. She emailed me right back saying she had a cancellation in 15 minutes. Maggie has been super helpful and emails you right back with questions and sent me a link to the webinar because their time didn't work for me (damn kids and sports practice!). Downfalls of Cozy....can't do deposit returns (she said this may happen down the road if enough people ask for it) and no auto late pays, but you can schedule a one time payment for late rent. Also, processing was a bit long for payments (after all, it is free and you get what you pay for), but I find their $3 fee for the 2-3 day deposit reasonable and am going to use that option. I am just getting my profile going, but so far so good.
So I started on the first page reading and didn't continue all the way through. I have been on facebook discussing this. I was one of the lucky ones that didn't lose money. But the losses are in the millions now. A close friend lost close to $6000 to erentpayment. In the beginning there were people defending Rick Sands. Anyone left defending him? If you are, you don't understand an exit scam. It's what he did. Look it up. Getting your money back is going to be a difficult task. Hopefully the tenant will get it back through R10 but if not... well, I am sorry. I am so so sorry. This was wrong. He should be in jail.
Lori, can you elaborate with as much detail as possible?
I'm confused how your friend could already know with certainty that their money has been stolen?
Here's what I can see in our accounts:
ERP withdrew mid-month payments from our tenant's accounts between October 12 and October 17
No deposits have been made to our receiving accounts. If they had an issue with the ACH processing again last night that would explain this behavior. Fraud could also explain it, but at this time it seems plausible that they are failing to react quickly and communicate with clarity.
The eCheckit bankruptcy does seem to be a real thing, with Chapter 7 filed in Kentucky.
https://www.inforuptcy.com/filings/kywbke_327234-3...
Has anyone in the community received an ERP deposit since October 12?
If you have, please provide that information.
ERP said that some transactions should have been processed last night, but none of mine came through.
If nobody in the BP community received anything today, it would look very bad indeed.
Has anyone been in contact with ERP today? It seems they went silent again last night with no updates/statuses on their site or social media.
I'm not convinced that fraud has occurred yet. If I were looking to scam people, I wouldn't choose the 7th - 12th of the month to skim. I'd choose the 29th through the 4th, wouldn't you? This still feels like awfully bad mismanagement of a crisis caused by eCheckit. The failure of ERP to be upfront and forthcoming with the facts as they knew them and what they were doing about it is, I think, what has so many of us up in arms. It is just baffling to me why ERP doesn't seem to be making any effort to assuage its customer base.
No one has reached out to me regarding my contact with customer service. I have disabled payments in ERP and voided pending transactions, so I can't say whether they've got payment processing back in place yet. I too am curious to see someone report success.
Red flags all over this from the CFE point of view. If the problem is indeed in ERPs payment processor per the articles I'm reading and not their internal systems per se, then this is at least poor business/contingency planning, maybe negligence? Small companies frequently have no FRM program, no disaster recovery framework, regrettably allowing one hiccup in a vendor to seize their whole engine.
I hope for the sake of everyone awaiting funds that the matter is cured soon!
The reasons people still believe this to be fraud at least on some level are :
1.) He said this was due to a bank swap and continued to collect tenant funds.
2.) He continued with this story for 4 business days...telling customers he was lining up financial resources to pay the "reserve" so customer funds would be released.
3.) After these 4 business days at COB no less he springs this "Bankruptcy" story.
While Echeckit did indeed file for bankruptcy...was their position/hardship new to Erentpayment/Rick Sands? Did he really just find out about it on the 18th of Oct?
4.) Going back to Oct. 3, 2017 they have stated they were bank swapping and systems would be online "soon" yet from everything I read in the groups and on facebook...no payments made after Oct. 5th, 2017 have been given to the landlords.
5.) People whose transactions weren't in the Oct. 6-12 window still haven't received their money...at the minimum a high amount still haven't received their money.
Why are transactions that weren't in the "bankrupt" window still not paid out?
http://www.coloradoan.com/story/money/business/201...
Seems the story is getting out...interesting tidbit from article:
"Sands lives in Fort Collins and his business is registered in Fort Collins, according to the Colorado Secretary of State's office. The city of Fort Collins has no sales tax license for eRentPayment, Sands or the business address, according to the city's sales tax office."
How can he charge tenants as "Merchant" but not have a sales tax license? He has an established business and customers in CO...so at the minimum he should collect from them if I understand correctly.
@Cody Plemmons - good news: our tenant just reported that they received both the rent and the $60 late fee back into their bank account. We told them in advance they can keep the late fee if they get the funds back...works for me!
Andy
@Cody Plemmons - good news: our tenant just reported that they received both the rent and the $60 late fee back into their bank account. We told them in advance they can keep the late fee if they get the funds back...works for me!
Andy
Just be careful as some banks give the money back when the R10 complaint is filed but reserve the right to take it back if their investigation proves transaction was approved.
After multiple attempts to reach eRentPayments by phone and email, this is what I finally received:
Delayed October PaymentsWe regret to inform you that our payment processor, eCheckit, has informed us that it expects to file for bankruptcy protection shortly. We are told that it suffered losses due to a fraud and that its processor, Check Commerce, has held over $4 million of it's funds and will not release the funds to the intended recipients at this time. Please note that eRentPayment had nothing to due with the fraud eCheckit suffered. It was apparently caused by another client of eCheckit.
The transactions potentially affected were submitted after approximately 7:31:00 PM (Pacific time) on 10/03/2017 through approximately 7:01:33 PM (Pacific time) on 10/12/2017. Any transactions submitted after this time period should not be affected as they are being processed through eRentPayment’s new direct bank relationship. Similarly, any future transactions should not be affected as they will be run through the new direct processing relationship.
We do not know if or when Check Commerce will send the pending transactions to the recipients. Accordingly, you should consider your options including having the tenant contact his or her bank to request the transaction be reversed. Specifically, the tenant may initiate a return for an ”Incomplete Transaction.” We understand that the return code for this is “R10” and the bank will require a written statement from the tenant. Also, the tenant will have a limited time period to request the return from his bank, usually within 60 days from the date of the transaction.
We are contacting the Attorney General of Arizona, NACHA, and reviewing legal action against the relevant parties.
When we have more information, we will let you know.
Published: October 13 at 7:33 PM
I just looked. I'm missing about 4k in rent. WTF???
So my lawyer just read through ERentPayment's user agreement letter and it basically absolves them from any wrongdoing if there's an issue with the third party's transaction process:
"User acknowledges that eRentPayment, LLC is only responsible for processing the electronic transactions that the Payer initiates and does not hold itself out as a collection agency nor does it in any way guarantee payments by the Payer. The User understands that eRentPayment, LLC will supply both the Renter and Manager with a timely electronic confirmation via email acknowledging that a particular transaction has been received by eRentPayment, LLC and posted to the Payer's and Payee's Transaction History.
If such notification is not received, eRentPayment, LLC makes no guarantee that the transaction was ever received by eRentPayment, LLC or that the payment was ever posted to the Payer's and Payee's Transaction History. Absent an email confirmation of receipt, it is solely the responsibility of the Payer to ensure that their payment has been properly received by the Payee. Additionally, it is the Payer's responsibility to ensure that such transactions are received by the Payee in a timely basis according to the terms of the separate lease/rental agreement executed between the Renter and Manager. Any dispute between the Renter and Manager regarding amount of payment, timing of payment, lack of payment, late-charges incurred, overdue rent, stoppage of a recurring payment set up through an Automatic Authorization Form, and the like will be handled exclusively between the Renter and Manager.
eRentPayment, LLC is merely providing an electronic rent transaction service to facilitate rent payments between the Renter and Manager and does not inherit the risk assumed by any party in relation to any transactions performed through the service."
So the only way it seems you can retaliate against bad business is by spreading the word and having them lose business, especially after Wells Fargo Immunity Act ruling today.
This is just gross, and I'm not doing business with any rent collection company again unless I have the name of their damned insurer. If my money is not insured, then this can happen again and again.
I just looked. I'm missing about 4k in rent. WTF???
The defrauded landlords set up a Facebook discussion group called "eRentPayment Discussion Group" that covers everything you need to do, Jacob. I wish you luck, man
https://m.facebook.com/groups/1978544419087897?view=info&ref=m_notif¬if_t=group_comment_reply
Agreed and I wouldn’t blame you for it either. Look at this company and their response after 12 or 13 days now... they are still responding to new inquiries with the same thing they wrote October 12th, pathetic.
This is the same reason some people rather pay more to buy from amazon rather than a third party seller on amazon for the same item, your contract is only as good as the weakest counterparty in the chain on the other side of the table.
The business model in a nut shell:
I’ll promise to provide a minimally value adding service for a fee, then pawn off 90% of the work, including the mission critical portions, on some fly by night vendor giving me a huge discount because they are not a going concern, which allows me to keep 90% of the fees I collect for myself.
I won’t guarantee anything.
Then I won’t plan at all for anything to go wrong either because my TOS says I have no liability for any of my vendors activities.
Bush League
Waiting to be added
Waiting to be added
Trust me, you won't be waiting long. Lots going on right now
https://www.erentpayment.com/questions.aspx#faq3
“What are the benefits of using the eRentPayment service?
Online rent payments will be the norm in the near future. Enjoy the ease of not cashing checks, automatic deposits, electronic record keeping, avoiding lost or late payments, and improved service for your Residents.“
“...Avoiding lost or late payments...”, right-e-o! “... automatic payments...”. What automatic payments? Evidently nothing automatic about it at all.
Good luck marrying up the marketing claims and business operations with Title 6, Article 1 The Colorado Consumer Protection Act. A copy of which, ironically, is located at stopfraudcolorado.gov:
https://www.stopfraudcolorado.gov/sites/default/files/CCPA%20-%202015%20Update.pdf
@Andy Webb, good for you man. I told my tenant I would give him $250 off the rent if he would go by the bank and try it, but as of tonight I still don't think he has gone by.