Getting Married - I already own house 100%, no mortgage

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Getting Married - I already own house 100%, no mortgage

Paul Haskell
Bentonville, AR · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 3 votes

I need advice.  I just got divorced and own my house, flat out, 100% with no mortgage.  I'm debt free.  Per my divorce decree and local law, I cannot live with anyone (called "cohabitation") with my 5 year old daughter in the house.  So marriage is the only option if I want to have a woman live in my house while my child is with me (I have 50% child custody).

My question is:  If I get married to a woman who works, how do I ask her to contribute to monthly expenses?  There is no mortgage car payment or any debt payments whatsoever.  There's just electric bill, cable bill, internet bill, grocery bill, car & home insurance and car & home property taxes.  What is fair?

Because this will be my 3rd marriage and statistics on 3rd marriages are horrible (73% of 3rd marriages fail in divorce within 5 years), I cannot allow her to have any equity in the home.  I do wish to be a good man and take care of her but she will need to contribute something.  What is fair?  How do I present it?  I'd really like to hear from women because whichever woman I marry, I will truly love her and will not want her to feel cheated or bad in any way.  Thanks in advance!

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Thomas S.
Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
8y

We are not counselors here we are investors. You are in the wrong place and opening yourself up to a serious dressing down if you stick around.

Here is the clue.....think about your daughter first not yourself.

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  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    Paul Haskell I’ve never been married but with this sort of thing it’s probably best to keep it simple. I’d just split expenses down the middle. No legal advice given. Good luck !
    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    We are not counselors here we are investors. You are in the wrong place and opening yourself up to a serious dressing down if you stick around.

    Here is the clue.....think about your daughter first not yourself.

    2Reply
  • Paul Haskell
    OP
    Bentonville, AR · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    Apologies Thomas S..  I'm new and saw a different but similar type of question in this same section.  I promise I didn't post incorrectly on purpose.  Very wise words though.  I'm kind of thinking of my daughter because her mother (that I divorced) does not think of her first.  I'll be careful not to post something like this again here.

    0Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y

    Well, the Landlord forum is where frustrated LLs discuss miserable tenant experiences mostly. I'll check the personal finance oval for ya at the bottom.

    I am married and we operate with 1 household account for general bills and groceries but we built together from the ground up so I see your point. Maybe she can buy food and pay the power bill.  Maybe have a little joint acct you both fund for the basics.

    Congrats on having your house paid off and being debt free! Are you a Dave Ramsey guy? Do you have other real estate?  I'm debt free too except half of my rental portfolio.

    Dave would suggest having a joint acct I'm sure. Maybe not for all, but for some. Saying you pay this, I'll pay that sounds like a college roommate situation like back in the day or something.

    2Reply
  • Paul Haskell
    OP
    Bentonville, AR · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Well, the Landlord forum is where frustrated LLs discuss miserable tenant experiences mostly. I'll check the personal finance oval for ya at the bottom.

    I am married and we operate with 1 household account for general bills and groceries but we built together from the ground up so I see your point. Maybe she can buy food and pay the power bill.  Maybe have a little joint acct you both fund for the basics.

    Congrats on having your house paid off and being debt free! Are you a Dave Ramsey guy? Do you have other real estate?  I'm debt free too except half of my rental portfolio.

    Dave would suggest having a joint acct I'm sure. Maybe not for all, but for some. Saying you pay this, I'll pay that sounds like a college roommate situation like back in the day or something.

    Thanks Steve for the ideas!  I am a Dave Ramsey guy!  Although, I learned my debt free concepts from a mentor when I was a teenager, I still LOVE Dave Ramsey!.  I did have a rental house and some investment property that were also paid off but lost those properties in the divorce. :-(  So, I need to start over.  Will need to have a prenup next time for sure (unfortunately).  Congratulations to you too on being debt free!!!  

    What is the personal fiance oval?

    2Reply
  • Zak Thompson
    Ashburn, VA · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    I just got a divorce. .. and my Attorney said... what you bring into the marriage is yours... however, any gains from the start of the marriage are considered marital assets.  

    Do yourself a favor.. get a prenup.  Your daughter will thank you in the future.   If your new to be wife has a problem then she isn't the one.  Worse case you can get your daughter an irrevocable trust, issue stock from your company to this trust and you now have a partner.  Make an agreement with your new trust partner that basically dictates you must have a prenup to exclude business assets from your marriage so there are no unwanted future "partners" in the business.  Use that for the excuse on why you have to have a prenup.  But if she still gives you issues on why she has to sign a prenup.. kick her to the curb :) not worth it. 

    0Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Well, the Landlord forum is where frustrated LLs discuss miserable tenant experiences mostly. I'll check the personal finance oval for ya at the bottom.

    I am married and we operate with 1 household account for general bills and groceries but we built together from the ground up so I see your point. Maybe she can buy food and pay the power bill.  Maybe have a little joint acct you both fund for the basics.

    Congrats on having your house paid off and being debt free! Are you a Dave Ramsey guy? Do you have other real estate?  I'm debt free too except half of my rental portfolio.

    Dave would suggest having a joint acct I'm sure. Maybe not for all, but for some. Saying you pay this, I'll pay that sounds like a college roommate situation like back in the day or something.

    Thanks Steve for the ideas!  I am a Dave Ramsey guy!  Although, I learned my debt free concepts from a mentor when I was a teenager, I still LOVE Dave Ramsey!.  I did have a rental house and some investment property that were also paid off but lost those properties in the divorce. :-(  So, I need to start over.  Will need to have a prenup next time for sure (unfortunately).  Congratulations to you too on being debt free!!!  

    What is the personal fiance oval?

    Thanks! It is great not having payments attached to everything you freaking own.

    Oh, at the bottom of the page here you can suggest something be put in a different  category. Several ovals to choose from! 

    0Reply
  • Paul Haskell
    OP
    Bentonville, AR · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Well, the Landlord forum is where frustrated LLs discuss miserable tenant experiences mostly. I'll check the personal finance oval for ya at the bottom.

    I am married and we operate with 1 household account for general bills and groceries but we built together from the ground up so I see your point. Maybe she can buy food and pay the power bill.  Maybe have a little joint acct you both fund for the basics.

    Congrats on having your house paid off and being debt free! Are you a Dave Ramsey guy? Do you have other real estate?  I'm debt free too except half of my rental portfolio.

    Dave would suggest having a joint acct I'm sure. Maybe not for all, but for some. Saying you pay this, I'll pay that sounds like a college roommate situation like back in the day or something.

    Thanks Steve for the ideas!  I am a Dave Ramsey guy!  Although, I learned my debt free concepts from a mentor when I was a teenager, I still LOVE Dave Ramsey!.  I did have a rental house and some investment property that were also paid off but lost those properties in the divorce. :-(  So, I need to start over.  Will need to have a prenup next time for sure (unfortunately).  Congratulations to you too on being debt free!!!  

    What is the personal fiance oval?

    Thanks! It is great not having payments attached to everything you freaking own.

    Oh, at the bottom of the page here you can suggest something be put in a different  category. Several ovals to choose from! 

     Ah! Silly me! There it is!  Thanks!  

    Yes, I LOVE the feeling of being debt free.  It made the logistics of asset splitting much easier to do the divorce.  Believe it or not, even living on a shoestring (cause I'm cheap), it still costs me $2500/mo to live in Bentonville Arkansas!  (Although, that figure includes every single expense amortized in, projected car/home repairs etc.)

    0Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Well, the Landlord forum is where frustrated LLs discuss miserable tenant experiences mostly. I'll check the personal finance oval for ya at the bottom.

    I am married and we operate with 1 household account for general bills and groceries but we built together from the ground up so I see your point. Maybe she can buy food and pay the power bill.  Maybe have a little joint acct you both fund for the basics.

    Congrats on having your house paid off and being debt free! Are you a Dave Ramsey guy? Do you have other real estate?  I'm debt free too except half of my rental portfolio.

    Dave would suggest having a joint acct I'm sure. Maybe not for all, but for some. Saying you pay this, I'll pay that sounds like a college roommate situation like back in the day or something.

    Thanks Steve for the ideas!  I am a Dave Ramsey guy!  Although, I learned my debt free concepts from a mentor when I was a teenager, I still LOVE Dave Ramsey!.  I did have a rental house and some investment property that were also paid off but lost those properties in the divorce. :-(  So, I need to start over.  Will need to have a prenup next time for sure (unfortunately).  Congratulations to you too on being debt free!!!  

    What is the personal fiance oval?

    Thanks! It is great not having payments attached to everything you freaking own.

    Oh, at the bottom of the page here you can suggest something be put in a different  category. Several ovals to choose from! 

     Ah! Silly me! There it is!  Thanks!  

    Yes, I LOVE the feeling of being debt free.  It made the logistics of asset splitting much easier to do the divorce.  Believe it or not, even living on a shoestring (cause I'm cheap), it still costs me $2500/mo to live in Bentonville Arkansas!  (Although, that figure includes every single expense amortized in, projected car/home repairs etc.)

     Ahh. Ya know, someday you won't know your monthly expenses down to the dollar and you won't care! We arent careless but havent had a written budget in 3 years at least. Really freeing!

    Seattle has the Amazon effect on cost of living there. Did Wal-Mart do the same to Bentonville? That's where Sam started isn't it? Sam was an interesting guy! Is there like a super mega Wal-Mart there?

    0Reply
  • Paul Haskell
    OP
    Bentonville, AR · Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 3 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Well, the Landlord forum is where frustrated LLs discuss miserable tenant experiences mostly. I'll check the personal finance oval for ya at the bottom.

    I am married and we operate with 1 household account for general bills and groceries but we built together from the ground up so I see your point. Maybe she can buy food and pay the power bill.  Maybe have a little joint acct you both fund for the basics.

    Congrats on having your house paid off and being debt free! Are you a Dave Ramsey guy? Do you have other real estate?  I'm debt free too except half of my rental portfolio.

    Dave would suggest having a joint acct I'm sure. Maybe not for all, but for some. Saying you pay this, I'll pay that sounds like a college roommate situation like back in the day or something.

    Thanks Steve for the ideas!  I am a Dave Ramsey guy!  Although, I learned my debt free concepts from a mentor when I was a teenager, I still LOVE Dave Ramsey!.  I did have a rental house and some investment property that were also paid off but lost those properties in the divorce. :-(  So, I need to start over.  Will need to have a prenup next time for sure (unfortunately).  Congratulations to you too on being debt free!!!  

    What is the personal fiance oval?

    Thanks! It is great not having payments attached to everything you freaking own.

    Oh, at the bottom of the page here you can suggest something be put in a different  category. Several ovals to choose from! 

     Ah! Silly me! There it is!  Thanks!  

    Yes, I LOVE the feeling of being debt free.  It made the logistics of asset splitting much easier to do the divorce.  Believe it or not, even living on a shoestring (cause I'm cheap), it still costs me $2500/mo to live in Bentonville Arkansas!  (Although, that figure includes every single expense amortized in, projected car/home repairs etc.)

     Ahh. Ya know, someday you won't know your monthly expenses down to the dollar and you won't care! We arent careless but havent had a written budget in 3 years at least. Really freeing!

    Seattle has the Amazon effect on cost of living there. Did Wal-Mart do the same to Bentonville? That's where Sam started isn't it? Sam was an interesting guy! Is there like a super mega Wal-Mart there?

    Yes, Walmart has had a similar effect but I'm guessing not to the same level.  There is still a ton of open land here.  New Housing pricing is just North of $100/sqft on average.  So, cost of living is still pretty reasonable.  Taxes in AR are high though for a red state.  Almost 10% sales tax and 6% state income tax and property taxes are nothing to sneeze at either.  I pay $2,500/yr on a house assessed at $325K.

    0Reply
  • Steve Vaughan
    Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
    Originally posted by @Paul Haskell:
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    Well, the Landlord forum is where frustrated LLs discuss miserable tenant experiences mostly. I'll check the personal finance oval for ya at the bottom.

    I am married and we operate with 1 household account for general bills and groceries but we built together from the ground up so I see your point. Maybe she can buy food and pay the power bill.  Maybe have a little joint acct you both fund for the basics.

    Congrats on having your house paid off and being debt free! Are you a Dave Ramsey guy? Do you have other real estate?  I'm debt free too except half of my rental portfolio.

    Dave would suggest having a joint acct I'm sure. Maybe not for all, but for some. Saying you pay this, I'll pay that sounds like a college roommate situation like back in the day or something.

    Thanks Steve for the ideas!  I am a Dave Ramsey guy!  Although, I learned my debt free concepts from a mentor when I was a teenager, I still LOVE Dave Ramsey!.  I did have a rental house and some investment property that were also paid off but lost those properties in the divorce. :-(  So, I need to start over.  Will need to have a prenup next time for sure (unfortunately).  Congratulations to you too on being debt free!!!  

    What is the personal fiance oval?

    Thanks! It is great not having payments attached to everything you freaking own.

    Oh, at the bottom of the page here you can suggest something be put in a different  category. Several ovals to choose from! 

     Ah! Silly me! There it is!  Thanks!  

    Yes, I LOVE the feeling of being debt free.  It made the logistics of asset splitting much easier to do the divorce.  Believe it or not, even living on a shoestring (cause I'm cheap), it still costs me $2500/mo to live in Bentonville Arkansas!  (Although, that figure includes every single expense amortized in, projected car/home repairs etc.)

     Ahh. Ya know, someday you won't know your monthly expenses down to the dollar and you won't care! We arent careless but havent had a written budget in 3 years at least. Really freeing!

    Seattle has the Amazon effect on cost of living there. Did Wal-Mart do the same to Bentonville? That's where Sam started isn't it? Sam was an interesting guy! Is there like a super mega Wal-Mart there?

    Yes, Walmart has had a similar effect but I'm guessing not to the same level.  There is still a ton of open land here.  New Housing pricing is just North of $100/sqft on average.  So, cost of living is still pretty reasonable.  Taxes in AR are high though for a red state.  Almost 10% sales tax and 6% state income tax and property taxes are nothing to sneeze at either.  I pay $2,500/yr on a house assessed at $325K.

     Wow those are high taxes for a red state. WA is about as blue as they come, West of the Cascades anyway- 90% of our  population but less than 1/3 land area. 

    We have 8.2% sales tax, no income tax (although they are considering a cap gain tax),  RE transfer taxes of 1.7% which bite hard at sale time and property taxes a little over 1% of assessed value on smalls, but rises quickly.  Your place would be like $4200ish. My $88k assessed is like $940. My $500k stuff, $6200.   Interesting how diff states tax!

    Property prices here are about $180/qft. Rents are about $1 per ft up to 1000. A 2400 sqft 3/2 would only be about $1700 though. What are rents like there if you can buy for $100/ft?

    0Reply
  • Ericka G.
    Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 366 posts · 283 votes
    8y
    Paul Haskell to add a female perspective, I’d say it depends a lot on who you marry. If she makes more than you or a similar amount, I think splitting bills down the middle is fair. If she makes less, just have her contribute what is comfortable for you both. It will also depend on her values and upbringing. I was raised by parents who were equal partners so that was my expectation of marriage, but I know a lot of women fully expect their husband to pay all or the majority of the bills. Ask about her feelings on gender roles while dating ;) I agree with others that a prenup (and a notarized will) is also a good idea if you have significant assets, especially since you have a daughter. I’ve seen some horror stories when a spouse dies suddenly and the step parent becomes money obsessed and kicks the kids out/cuts them off.
    1Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    8y

    No matter how much married partners love each other a marriage is just like a business. You must get up everyday and work on it to make it better and learn new things so that you keep in sync and grow together.

    One of the best visuals is a bank account or a car gas tank. If you do not keep making deposits in the bank it goes into the negative. If you do not keep putting more gas in the car you run out of fuel and it goes off in the ditch.

    People sometimes think once they have been together a long time and finally get married that the ring and license paper means they can slack off and not put into the relationship what they used to. it is simply not that way.

    We can usually resolve any issues these days. If we can't we table the issue for a future date to discuss with our life coach ( see once a month usually ). Having a specific day is great because instead of having an unresolved issue looming everyday creating a daily problem relationship we go once  a month and talk it out there. Until then it does not become a daily issue. 

    We go by (HALT). Hungry,angry,lonely, or tired. If we are feeling these it is not usually the best time to discuss things to work through for resolution.

    Being in a long term relationship or a  (marriage), or a business and making it successful takes work but can be very rewarding in life.  

    I wake up everyday thinking there will be some problems to solve daily. Maybe a few times a year I have close to a perfect day, a few times a year some real challenging days where nothing goes right, and then there are a majority of the days where most are in the middle of the extremes. A lot of it is mindset and how you react and handle things as they happen.

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    0Reply
  • Alan Pederson
    Investor · Kennedale, TX · Member since 2016 · 219 posts · 349 votes
    8y

    @Paul Haskell I might be able to help you a little. I got married (my third marriage) almost 13 years ago. My new wife had two girls from her previous marriage. We had a long conversation about bills and finances. I sold my house and moved into hers. She continued to pay all of the bills and I just put my paycheck in the bank. We had separate checking accounts and a joint savings account and they were all linked so both of us could see each others account information. The house wasn't paid for but it was in her name. Some months she was a little short $$ wise and I would pay the electric or whatever. I am really conservative with money and just piled money in the bank. About a year in, the stress of handling everything was getting to much for her so I took over paying all the bills. She pays the house payment, water, and groceries. I pay the utilities, car insurance, cable, phones, etc... If your house is paid off I would suggest that you have the new wife simply contribute to your joint savings account the same amount she was paying for rent before ya'll got married and then use that money to eventually buy rental property. That's worked good for us. I continue to put $1,000 in savings every month. My wife has her own checking so she's happy, I have my own checking so I'm happy, and we have a joint account for saving and investing. When we can, we each put extra into savings. I made a deal with her early on that as long as I can put $1,000 into savings each month, she could spent every penny we had and I would never say a word. She's never done that but I have never questioned her spending and we have never had an argument about money the entire time we've been married. 

    0Reply
  • Alan Pederson
    Investor · Kennedale, TX · Member since 2016 · 219 posts · 349 votes
    8y

    I need to add a few things. When I sold my house I made $40k. I used that money to pay off all of our debts. My new wife was shocked that I spent $30k just a few weeks after getting married to her. She had about $6k in debt and our honeymoon cost us about the same. The other debt was mine and the remainder just went into our joint savings. I told her I was all in and put my money where my mouth was. We have been living debt free (except for mortgages) ever since. About 6-7 years ago we decided to refinance the house because interest rates were really low. She was hesitant to have my name put on the paperwork because it was HER house. She had 22 years left on a 30 year note and we refinanced to a 15 year note. I told her when we got married I didn't even hesitate about selling my house  (it was bigger and nicer than hers) or putting that money into OUR bank account and paying off OUR debt. We have spent over $20,000 in repairs and upgrades to our house since we got married that never would have happened if she was still single. Why would you hesitate now? It wasn't like she had tons of equity in the house. She signed the paperwork but still brings this up from time to time. I just laugh and tell her if it's YOUR house than go mow YOUR yard.

    0Reply
  • Marcell Salmond
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 24 posts · 1 vote
    8y
    If you start an LLC after marriage does the spouse have rights to that as well?
    0Reply
  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    Instead of getting married and moving in another woman why not just give her half of everything you already have and be done with it now. That will save your daughter a load of emotional damage down the road.

    As for having everything paid off if you had all your properties leveraged you probably would not have lost them in the last divorce. Equity/cash is simply sitting waiting to be taken. Not a good approach to investing. It places a huge target on your back for Ex's and lawsuits.

    Having no debt might be good for you personally but there is nothing worse for a investor to have loads of dead equity sitting around waiting to be picked clean. If you want to protect yourself in the future you need to get rid of your fixation on being debt free. Espically if you are now contemplating beginning the process of divorce #3. 

    0Reply
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