landlord's will need to prepare 1099s

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Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
15y

And to clarify what Charles mentioned, it's for TOTAL paid to anybody over $599. So, if your plumber comes out a few times for $200 each trip, you will exceed the threshold and you'll need to generate that 1099.

Now, in 2010, you will not have to do that if the recipient is a corporation (C or S); you have to 1099 any LLC or sole proprietor.

The change for 2011 is that even corporations will need to be sent a 1099.

And to properly issue a 1099, you will need to get a W-9 filled out (to get Tax ID and to determine if recipient is exempt from withholding - which would be at 28% I believe).

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Agent · Tampa, FL · Member since 2009 · 456 posts · 123 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Tom C:
    This will make the cost of services go up. Any time I use a contractor for cleanouts or just crap work that I don't want to do, it's a cash transaction. If I have to 1099 these guys, a $300 clean out just went up to $400 bucks. I guess as it was suggested, instead of paying "Joe's handyman" for work all year. We pay Joes cleanout, Joe the painter, Joe the trash hauler... This is the only way I see around this situation.

    I think many people are misinterpreting this. I believe what he was implying was that the contractors are going to charge more if they know they will have to report the income.

  • Investor · Lucas, TX · Member since 2010 · 620 posts · 352 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Dawn Vought:
    That would be good if credit card transactions were exempt, although I pay bills like Verizon's by check, but will start to pay by credit card instead if that's the case.

    Can anyone confirm if credit card transactions will be exempt? I didn't notice it in the IRS wording but definitely could have missed it.

    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=225029,00.html

  • Buy and Hold Investor · Commack, NY · Member since 2008 · 358 posts · 33 votes
    15y

    Thanks!

  • Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes
    15y
  • Residential Landlord · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 592 posts · 138 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Bienes Raices:

    Does this mean no 1099s or just that they will not have to be issued to corporations?

  • Real Estate Investor · North Carolina · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 483 votes
    15y

    Not only get the W-9 before work starts, but inform the contractor before meeting what you require.

    I just spent over an hour with a contractor doing a walk-through only to have him walk away when I pulled out the W-9. Sheesh.

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by NC Mark:
    Not only get the W-9 before work starts, but inform the contractor before meeting what you require.

    Great point, Mark...

    We make sure to tell the contractor on the phone (before he comes to the property) that we'll need proof of insurance, W-9 and a signed contract for every job. If they aren't interested, they can decide that BEFORE they waste theirs and our time doing a walk-through.

  • Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes
    15y

    ^ Do you have the contractor's insurance co. fax you the information, or just have the contractor bring it on the first day?

  • Real Estate Investor · Northeast TN, TN · Member since 2008 · 516 posts · 361 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Kyle Meyers:
    Originally posted by Bienes Raices:
    Does this mean no 1099s or just that they will not have to be issued to corporations?

    About those 1099 changes....well..never mind! We are now back to square one. Landlords who report rental properties on Schedule E will NOT have to issue 1099s.

    And those real estate investors who are issuing 1099s now will continue to issue them only to INDIVIDUALS to whom they pay $600 or more - and only for services, not products.

    On April 5th, Congress voted to repeal all of the provisions enacted in both the Small Business Jobs and Credit Act of 2010, AND the H.R. 3590 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. Legislation (HR 4) has passed both the House and Senate and has been sent to the President for signature.

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Bienes Raices:
    ^ Do you have the contractor's insurance co. fax you the information, or just have the contractor bring it on the first day?

    If you get a copy of it from the contractor, then you MUST confirm coverage by contacting the insurance agent (and be sure that you aren't getting their pal on the phone, posing as an agent - similar to when checking up on tenants with landlords).

    But it is BEST to get the certificate directly from the agent, and also be marked on the certificate as getting notification of cancellation. This way, if contractor drops coverage, you will find out - without having to figure it out the hard way ...

  • Commercial Real Estate Broker · Memphis, TN · Member since 2010 · 151 posts · 82 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Steve Babiak:
    Originally posted by Bienes Raices:
    ^ Do you have the contractor's insurance co. fax you the information, or just have the contractor bring it on the first day?

    If you get a copy of it from the contractor, then you MUST confirm coverage by contacting the insurance agent (and be sure that you aren't getting their pal on the phone, posing as an agent - similar to when checking up on tenants with landlords).

    But it is BEST to get the certificate directly from the agent, and also be marked on the certificate as getting notification of cancellation. This way, if contractor drops coverage, you will find out - without having to figure it out the hard way ...

    I believe its the ACCORD form that is needed from teh contractor

  • Real Estate Investor · Mission, KS · Member since 2008 · 67 posts · 15 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Dawn Vought:
    Originally posted by Charles Perkins:
    Under the new legislation designed to help small businesses was a small add on that is now going to require landlords to issue 1099s to any contractor performing services like repairs over $600.

    http://www.allbusiness.com/government/government-procedure-lawmaking-legislation/15166028-1.html

    So how does this "help" small business? Sounds to me like it's just another shot to kill small business in this country by making it that much harder to do business. Way to go BBO! (Big Brother Obama) :roll:

    You're absolutely right Dawn. This makes if more difficult for small businesses to compete with large corporations and it was by design (or incompetency). Anyway, let's hold onto the hope that they will at least be taking this ridiculous 1099 section out of the bill.

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by Jason T.:

    Anyway, let's hold onto the hope that they will at least be taking this ridiculous 1099 section out of the bill.

    If you had read the other -- more recent -- posts in this thread, you'd know that they removed this part of the bill already...it's gone...

  • Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 852 votes
    15y

    I have done it that way for years, unless they have a corporation. But hey, most of the guys that work on our stuff are lucky to have teeth, let alone a corporation! :lol:

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    15y

    I didn't follow this whole thread, but my accountant sent me this today:

    Congress passes bill repealing expanded 1099 information reporting requirements

    On April 5, the Senate by a vote of 87-12 approved H.R. 4, the “Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and Repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011.†The measure, which retroactively repeals expanded Form 1099 information reporting rules added by recent legislation, was passed by the House on March 3 by a vote of 314-112. Thus, H.R. 4 (the Act) is cleared for the President's expected signature.

    Click here for the text of the “Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and Repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011.â€

    Click here for the text of JCX-9-11: Description of H.R. __, The “Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection And Repayment Of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act Of 2011.â€

    Here are highlights of the tax changes in the Act.

    Original information reporting rules. Before amendment by the Small Business Jobs Act of 2010 ( P.L. 111-240 ) and the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA, P.L. 111-148 ), Code Sec. 6041 generally required payments totaling at least $600 in a single calendar year to a single recipient to be reported to IRS. Reporting on Form 1099 was required only when the payor was considered to be engaged in a trade or business and has made the payment in connection with that trade or business. The type of payment that most commonly triggered the reporting requirement was payment for services.

    There were a number of exemptions from Code Sec. 6041 's reporting requirements under prior law, notably including payments to corporations (which were exempt under Reg. § 1.6041-3(p)(1) ).

    Pre-Act law—changes made by 2010 legislation. Beginning in 2012, Sec. 9006 of PPACA added payments of amounts in consideration for any type of property and gross proceeds—i.e., it added payments for goods or other property—to the list of payments subject to information reporting.

    Sec. 9006 of PPACA further provided that, beginning in 2012, payments to non-tax-exempt corporations—which had previously been exempt from the reporting requirement—would be subject to information reporting.

    Additionally, for payments made after 2010, the Small Business Jobs Act of 2010 provided that, subject to limited exceptions, a person receiving rental income from real estate would be treated as engaged in the trade or business of renting property for information reporting purposes. In particular, rental income recipients making payments of $600 or more to a service provider (for example, a painter or plumber) in the course of earning rental income would have to provide an information return to the service provider and IRS.

    New law. For payments made after Dec. 31, 2011, the Act repeals the provisions in Sec. 9006 that impose a reporting requirement for payments to corporations and payments for goods or other property. ( Code Sec. 6041(a) , Code Sec. 6041(i) , and Code Sec. 6041(j) , as amended by Act Sec. 2) And for payments made after Dec. 31, 2010, the Act also repeals application of the information reporting requirements to recipients of rental income from real estate who are not otherwise considered to be engaged in the trade or business of renting property. ( Code Sec. 6041(h) , as repealed by Act Sec. 3)

    RIA observation: In other words, under the Act, the information reporting rules effectively revert to the way they read before enactment of PPACA and the Small Business Jobs Act of 2010.
    Revenue offset. The Act provides an offset for the lost revenue from repealing the new information reporting provisions, estimated at $21.9 billion. It increases the amount of “excess advance payments†of the premium assistance credit (enacted as part of the 2010 health care reform legislation to help lower-income individuals acquire affordable health insurance coverage) that a taxpayer must repay under Code Sec. 36B(f)(2) for tax years ending after Dec. 31, 2013. The credit is available for a taxpayer who doesn't receive health insurance through his employer (or his spouse's employer) and whose income falls between 100% and 400% of the federal poverty line (FPL), based on the most recently filed tax return.

    Under pre-Act law, if the taxpayer's income increases such that the credit exceeds that to which his current income level actually entitles him to, but his income is still under 500% of FPL, he had to repay some credit amounts. The limit on amounts he had to repay were capped and ranged from $600 to $3,500.

    New law. Under the Act, for tax years ending after Dec. 31, 2013, the repayment caps are increased for taxpayers with household income of at least 200% but less than 400% of FPL, and full repayment is required for taxpayers whose incomes exceed 400% of FPL. ( Code Sec. 36B(f)(2)(B)(i) , as amended by Act Sec. 4 )

    References: For the expanded information reporting requirements, see FTC 2d/FIN ¶ S-3656 ; United States Tax Reporter ¶ 60,414.035 ; TaxDesk ¶ 814,001.A1 ; TG ¶ 60202 . For coordination between post-2013 premium assistance credit and advance payments to be done on tax return for coverage year, see FTC 2d/FIN ¶ A-4248.1 ; United States Tax Reporter ¶ 36B4.01 ; TaxDesk ¶ 569,478 ; TG ¶ 1390 .

  • Real Estate Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2010 · 53 posts · 4 votes
    15y

    To clarify, as a small time real estate investor (3 rental homes) do I have to collect W9s and issue 1099s to the handymen I use to do over $600 a year in repairs.

    From what I have read it seems like I do not have to at this point?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by djotham:
    To clarify, as a small time real estate investor (3 rental homes) do I have to collect W9s and issue 1099s to the handymen I use to do over $600 a year in repairs.

    Yes, if you are paying contractors over $600 per year, you need to issue them 1099s at the end of the year. This is regardless of how many properties you own, unfortunately...

  • Real Estate Investor · Northeast TN, TN · Member since 2008 · 516 posts · 361 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by djotham:
    To clarify, as a small time real estate investor (3 rental homes) do I have to collect W9s and issue 1099s to the handymen I use to do over $600 a year in repairs.

    Yes, if you are paying contractors over $600 per year, you need to issue them 1099s at the end of the year. This is regardless of how many properties you own, unfortunately...


    NOT if you are reporting your rental income and expenses on Schedule E. This reporting requirement would be true if the portion of the Small Business Jobs Act of 2010 requiring persons receiving rental income from real estate be treated as engaged in a trade or business had not been repealed. But it was, so no 1099 reporting for Schedule E filers.

    If, however, you report your rental income and expenses on Schedule C you will fall under the Form 1099 reporting requirements of any other trade or business.

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Bill Walston:

    Yes, if you are paying contractors over $600 per year, you need to issue them 1099s at the end of the year. This is regardless of how many properties you own, unfortunately...

    NOT if you are reporting your rental income and expenses on Schedule E.

    Are you sure about this Bill?

    I'm not positive either way, but the reading of the filing instructions on the 1099-MISC indicates that any landlord is on the hook for filing 1099s over $600:

    http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099msc.pdf

    Note the following on the second column of the first page:

    "Report on form 1099-MISC ONLY when payments are made in the course of your trade or business....Persons receiving rental income from real estate generally are considered to be in the trade or business of renting property."

    Again, I don't know for certain (and maybe I just didn't read far enough), but that led me to believe that even Schedule E filers were on the hook for 1099s if they were landlords.

    Sorry if it turns out I gave bad info above!

  • Real Estate Investor · Northeast TN, TN · Member since 2008 · 516 posts · 361 votes
    15y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Bill Walston:

    Yes, if you are paying contractors over $600 per year, you need to issue them 1099s at the end of the year. This is regardless of how many properties you own, unfortunately...

    NOT if you are reporting your rental income and expenses on Schedule E.

    Are you sure about this Bill?

    Quite sure. HR 4, the Comprehensive 1099 Taxpayer Protection and Repayment of Exchange Subsidy Overpayments Act of 2011 was signed into law by the President on April 14, 2011. Section 3 of said Act is entitled REPEAL OF EXPANSION OF INFORMATION REPORTING REQUIREMENTS FOR RENTAL PROPERTY EXPENSE PAYMENTS. (You can read HR 4 at http://www.govtrack.us/congressbilltext.xpd?bill=h112-4)

    The misinformation in the IRS instructions to which you link is in no doubt due to the fact that those instructions were printed long before the repeal of the requirement. The 2011 instructions are actually for 2010 Forms 1099, which should have been prepared and delivered to the recipients on or before January 31, 2011. The repeal was not signed until April 14, 2011, three and half months later. Even though HR 4 was retroactive most folks would have already filed the forms for 2011. I'm certain the instructions for 2012 will be corrected to reflect that the receipt of rental income is NOT considered a trade or business.

    Hope this helps :-)

  • J ScottPro Member
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    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    15y

    Got it...thanks Bill! This is great info...

    I didn't realize that this is a NEW change...nice that the government/IRS is actually doing something to make things simpler for some people, not more complicated (for a change)... :D

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