Pros/Cons of Lease Renewal in November

Pros/Cons of Lease Renewal in November

Mark S.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
My first turnkey rental is coming up on one year in November. These tenants are a couple with two small children making a combined 5x the monthly rent. So far, they’ve paid on time each month without a peep and no issues with the property. I asked PM about rental rates and possibly increasing it. Their recommendation based on local market conditions is to leave the rent amount as-is, although the decision is ultimately mine. I am considering having them ask the residents to sign a 1.5 year lease, which puts the end month in May as opposed to November. My logic is that when they eventually move out, it will be easier to fill the vacancy in the warmer months than in November/December. While they‘re willing to ask the resident to sign a 1.5 year lease, they said that their leasing department generally stays steadily busy year-round, even in December (as far as move-ins go) but that they‘re generally able to turn units faster in these months than in the summer. They said that it generally takes longer in other months to get homes rent ready, so it will likely all average out. So, with all that said, I guess I have 2 questions: 1.) Should I renew the lease for the standard one year, ending in November, or should I try to renew for 1.5 years, ending in May? 2.) Should I try to raise the rent amount in either scenario? I’m almost thinking to maybe offer tenant two options: same rent if they’ll sign 1.5 year lease or slight rent increase (maybe $25) if sign a 1 year lease. What do you guys think?
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Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
8y

@Mark S. Always hard to tell for a market I don't know, but here is what we do.

Winter is a bit thougher in Wisconsin, but I find that people move all the time and while a lot of people stay put in winter, there are also very few properties available - so it's a wash.

I usually try to avoid December and January for lease end dates mostly because of the holidays and we will go 14 months instead of 12. Sometimes tenants push back on the longer lease as a first response. I ask them if they would like to move on Dec 31st and they usually agree that this is a bad time.

We do not increase rents on an annual basis as I prefer stability over $25 or $50 extra income. I estimate that the cost of an average trun over is about $4,000. Even though I self manage, the time and effort to sign a new tenant is about one month rent. And then we seem to have an average of $2,000 in paint and stuff that is not charged against security deposit.

My wife and I also have a strong sense of social responsibility. We offer premium homes that rent for a fair amount, but we don't want to gauge and squeeze people every chance we get for a few extra dollars.

Making an extra $50 over $4000 is a long break even, typically tenants move before it makes economic sense to adjust rent. We will do it however selectivley after a few years to not totally get away from fair market rents.

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  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    @Mark S. Always hard to tell for a market I don't know, but here is what we do.

    Winter is a bit thougher in Wisconsin, but I find that people move all the time and while a lot of people stay put in winter, there are also very few properties available - so it's a wash.

    I usually try to avoid December and January for lease end dates mostly because of the holidays and we will go 14 months instead of 12. Sometimes tenants push back on the longer lease as a first response. I ask them if they would like to move on Dec 31st and they usually agree that this is a bad time.

    We do not increase rents on an annual basis as I prefer stability over $25 or $50 extra income. I estimate that the cost of an average trun over is about $4,000. Even though I self manage, the time and effort to sign a new tenant is about one month rent. And then we seem to have an average of $2,000 in paint and stuff that is not charged against security deposit.

    My wife and I also have a strong sense of social responsibility. We offer premium homes that rent for a fair amount, but we don't want to gauge and squeeze people every chance we get for a few extra dollars.

    Making an extra $50 over $4000 is a long break even, typically tenants move before it makes economic sense to adjust rent. We will do it however selectivley after a few years to not totally get away from fair market rents.

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
    8y

    Thanks, @Marcus Auerbach   Great insight.  I don’t think I mentioned it, but this market is Memphis that I’m talking about.

  • Curt DavisBusiness Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Memphis, TN · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    I personally never raise my rents bc I am happy with where they are renting for. It’s always best to get a longer term lease so ask your mgnt company to try an 18 month lease, or just due with another 12 if they are willing to renew. 

    Good luck. 

    Curt Davis - KAIZEN Realty538 Reviews
  • Rental Property Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
    8y

    I own properties in Cincinnati and found it easier to find residents May to September and a hard time finding residents October to February.

    Another option is to put them on a month-to-month lease and have them resign a new lease next year. The downside is that they can leave at anytime with a 30 day notice.

    To determine the amount of rent to charge, you really need to do a rental comparable analysis. Your property management company can help with that, but since it is your property, I would perform on yourself.

  • Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
    8y

    Be careful with leases longer than 1 year, some states have special rules you must follow it your lease exceeds a year and 1 day, also we would make the lease till march-may/june, then a year after that. rents will depend on market conditions, I prefer my rents be at or just below market, with the hope of keeping the tenant longer, Turns are expensive, so lets say rent is $600/mo and you have a 1 mo vacancy because you are $25/mo higher than the place down the road, it would take 2 years to recoup that lost months rent, I am all for keeping units full even if that means a little lower rent, maybe a $5-$10 bump is ok, but dont push it. 

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
    8y
    @Scott Schultz, thank you. Thanks to all that have responded to this thread. I think I am going to simply have the PM renew their lease for 12 months at the current rent amount. They’ve been good tenants, I want them to stay, and PM thinks rents are where they need to be (since they get paid % of gross rents, you would think if they could get more rents, they would try). The more I think about it, the fact that they have two small children probably helps having it renew in November - when the kids go to school, the parents are unlikely to want to move them during the school year, not to mention end of November is right there in holiday mode. Thanks again, all.
  • Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
    8y

    @Mark S.  I will say this, the same reason you are thinking to keep the lease ending will keep them is why it will be harder to find a new tenant if the need arises. MY Pm sent me a new lease yesterday for one of my units, it ends 6/30/19 making it about a 9 month lease, they do that all fall and winter, shorten leases to end in spring or summer, often when we buy we end up hitting the market in winter, many times we have to do a discount to fill the unit in Nov-Mar, this is just what my experience has been. Good Luck

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
    8y
    @Scott Schultz Good point. Emailed PM this morning and decided to have them offer 18-month lease to tenants at current rent. Obvious advantage to tenants is locked in rental rate for longer term. Obvious advantage to me is certainty of, at least up until now, rent payments and a more favorable time of year for lease renewals. If they don’t want to sign 18-months, told them to do normal 12-month lease at same rental rate. Obviously if market dictates rental increase at that time, can always raise rents after 12 months.
  • Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
    8y

    Im pretty sure some rules change when you lease longer than 12 mo. be careful

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
    8y
    @Scott Schultz Like what? Wouldn’t the PM know that and have to tell me?
  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    8y
    1.5 ? You want less lease time not longer . That doesn’t help landlords at all . Tenants move out when they feel like .
  • Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Mark S.:
    @Scott Schultz Like what? Wouldn’t the PM know that and have to tell me?

    The notices you can use and the days for the notices change, I would consult your PM to be sure or read the state statutes, The PM may not know or if they do the wouldnt have an obligation to tell you, a good PM would, but not all of them will.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    8y

    I raise my tenants rent annually without fail. Unless you are in a unique area the cost of living rises annually and unless you raise your rents at minimum that amount you are losing money. If you are operating a business with a desire to make a profit not raising your rent annually means you are losing money. That may be fine for mom and pop hobby landlords but not for business. Remember turnover costs are built into your expense/profit business plans.

    As Dennis points out a lease has very little relationship to when tenant will move. They rarely care about a lease when it is time for them to go. My preference, all my tenants, are on M2M leases. I prefer to have control over my properties as opposed to turning that control over to tenants with a term lease. Believing a term lease somehow is a positive for a landlord is a falicy.

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
    8y

    Well, I guess I screwed up royally on this one...

  • Rental Property Investor · Destin, FL · Member since 2016 · 91 posts · 55 votes
    8y

    I have had to transition from Winter lease end dates to summer dates with multiple tenants.  I simply had them sign 6 month or month to month leases in order to make it to May - July months before having them sign year long leases.  Additionally, I have tried to increase rent each year, coupled with improvements to the units.  I personally have a hard time increasing rent without justification.

  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    8y

    A wise land lady told me 'two things we cannot control in this business-when they pay and when they leave'. All our tenants are on MTM leases, seems a happy arrangement. I do have tenants ask for a 1 year term; but we don't offer that.

  • Rental Property Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2016 · 513 posts · 374 votes
    8y

    @Mark S.

    November to January time is tough for rentals in memphis due to holidays and winter months. properties dont rent for top dollar in these months. 

    Raising rents is not that popular in memphis as we have not raised a single penny over the last three years in memphis market. Also with so much influx of investors in Memphis, there is a lot of property available for rent.

    On a recent turnover, we got $30 less than previous lease. Also it took forty five days to rent and $2000 turnover rehab.

    just my two cents

  • Mark S.Pro Member
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · KY · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 539 votes
    8y

    @AJ Singh, are you saying that you’d favor the 18-month lease, which would renew in May 2020, at the current rent?

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