Am I crazy to self-manage from afar?

Am I crazy to self-manage from afar?

Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 213 posts · 160 votes

I am under contract on a quadplex near a university that is 4 hour drive from me. After speaking with some property managers, I'm realizing they really know how to tack on the fees... 10% (expected) of all revenues, 1/2 months rent for first lease, $400-500 for new leases thereafter (which most will be), $200 for renewals, $500/unit cancellation fee, no late fees passed along to me owner, some have $50/unit vacant fee! It just seems like this may add up to be 15-20% of revenues.

This has me thinking how hard can it be to self manage? I will be down there for closing to do some basic work and then back down there once the contractor completes the rehab we are doing, at which point I could take pictures and list the property on postlets. I could create a FAQ sheet for potential tenants. I could compensate my agent to show the property. I have spoken with nearly a dozen handyman and contractors regarding the rehab and one I liked said he would be happy to do any repairs on the property (wasn't a good fit for the rehab). 

I could have my handyman perform basic repairs, deal with any onsite issues and compensate him accordingly. I can collect/screen tenants via Cozy.co. I would still visit the property 2-3 times a year as my alma mater plays this team once a year and it's not THAT far. I could create/provide a move-in checklist, move-out inspection that handyman could deliver and perform the move-out inspection and perform need repairs as well. I could provide a move-in document that would have tenants e-mail me for non-emergencies and phone # for more urgent matters.

On top of it all, I figure I can always just hire a PM at if this isn't as easy as I think it is... 

Am I crazy for trying to do this? PM fees seem like they will be adding up to $7500+ a year ($5,400 in % fee and another $2000 in new lease fees), which doesn't seem justifiable to me...

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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
7y

I self managed a property in Boston, while Im in DC for about 4 years. It was doable, but honest it was kind of a pain.  DC to Boston has flights every hour out of 3 different airports for pretty cheap, so I was able to get there fairly easily, but I didnt have to go there unexpectedly about twice a year to deal with crap. In retrospect, I would have just hired a PM.

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  • Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2017 · 791 posts · 479 votes
    7y

    @Charles Kennedy If your capital is tapped out then spend the time to network and brand yourself. Then raise capital for future deals. Many successful RE investors use OPM to grow their wealth along with those investors. For the $7500 as long as you still have adequate time building your brand and networking then self manage but I think you can grow your portfolio faster by hiring a mgmt company and focus on acquiring new deals and raising capital for them. 

  • Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 55 posts · 17 votes
    7y
    @Charles Kennedy More power to you if you can pull it off from afar. Otherwise, get a good PM as a backup plan.
  • Investor · Pawleys Island, SC · Member since 2015 · 324 posts · 385 votes
    7y

    I self manage 8 from about 1.5-2 hours away.  It's not that bad especially if you have a good contractor/ maintenance vendor.  The only real headache is vacancy.  It's quite the pain to go up to view for move out and then set up any needed repairs and clean out.  Then go up to show unit and sign new lease.  

  • Real Estate Consultant · Milwaukee - WI · Member since 2018 · 142 posts · 73 votes
    7y

    You're right in thinking that some management companies overcharge and have ridiculous fees. But making sure to have a solid connection in the city where you property is at is super important! You don't want to get caught in a bad situation being 4 hours away. But overall good luck! 

  • Investor · Crystal, MN · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 277 votes
    7y

    @Charles Kennedy

    First, congrats on your decision to self manage.  Your analysis of the costs is very well done.  You left out other fees.  Like turnover fees, and the repairs the PM will come up with that will be a super soaker of your hard earned cash.  Then the change out locks fee, and the cleaning fee.  Now, to defend them, a lot of that work is necessary, but the amount they charge is not.  

    I manage 4 properties 1.5 hours away.  I take drives down there 4 times a year, and I love the drive, so it's no big deal.  I do partner with Realtors to help me fill vacancies.  I have a full list of contractors who do all my work, a handyman in town, and we do much of our own work (and we enjoy it).  My handyman is actually my emergency contact, so all bases are covered.  

    You can do this.  Have no fear.  It's work, but at least you keep your money.

  • All Over, USA · Member since 2017 · 689 posts · 756 votes
    7y
    Nope. I have a couple units as far as 2,400 miles away from where I currently live. Managed by property managers 24/7 at a 7%/month fee. Vetted them carefully too. Lowest I’ve personally come across - and it’s been really great working with them so far. They snagged me some solid tenants that I rarely hear from or about. I’ll be flying out to check the places out eventually, and write it off as a real estate expense trip (although the trip may coincidentally be at the same time as my friend’s bachelor party...)
  • Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
    7y

    I dont even manage my close by ones, I dont want the tenants to know who I am, I dont want the responsibility of legal compliance, (one of the reasons you hire a professional) I dont want the phone calls, or the drama. Most of the people that hire a good PM find they make more money paying their fee than not, tenants know there is no emotion, and tenants are more apt to pay. 

    Also, you should be able to find a Good PM in the 7-9% range and lower 1st mo fees. I have 1 at 5.5% no lease up fee, and one at 7% with 1/3 mo lease up, both are good managers. 21 units and growing. 

  • Real Estate Professional · Hoboken, NJ · Member since 2017 · 46 posts · 26 votes
    7y
    Consider your flexibility as well. 4 hours is pushing it but fine when you can schedule in advance What about when it’s spur of the moment emergency ? I’d do it bc im hands on , do repairs myself, and my job is typically flexible except a few times a year. In those cases though I know I have people I could rely on that I trust, and fall back would be ppl local to the property I can trust. No one is going to care about your property more than you do, unless you’re willing to pay a reputable person well, and they aren’t usually cheap
  • Real Estate Investor · Middle Island, NY · Member since 2016 · 147 posts · 68 votes
    7y

    If you're going to self manage, make sure you still include management fees in your analysis. 

    If you decide down the road to hire a PM you want the numbers to still make sense.

  • Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 213 posts · 160 votes
    7y

    @James Caruso it will still cash flow well if we hire a PM, but it just cuts down significantly. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 213 posts · 160 votes
    7y

    @Eric Burgh what emergencies would I have to be there for? I would just call handyman/professional to fix any problem. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 213 posts · 160 votes
    7y

    @Scott Schultz I plan to set up an e-mail that is something like (citypropertymgmt@email) and then set up a google voice number that is in the local area code so I don't have them think I am the owner. Thanks for the advice, we will try to negotiate if/when we hire a manager. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 213 posts · 160 votes
    7y

    @Anna Buffkin thanks Anna - I plan to have realtor do showings. Cleaning out units, I plan to pay a cleaning company for turnover and pass on any extra fees for cleaning out units (like left furniture/food etc.) onto the tenants via a deduction in security deposit. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Michigan City, IN · Member since 2015 · 530 posts · 741 votes
    7y

    @Charles Kennedy have 8 units in South Bend, about 40min drive for me and its no problem. Also have 23 units that are 6.5 hour drive and that really isnt that difficult. I go up about every 2 months to check on my 23 units and stay with family that are about 1hr30min from that town. For my 8 units in South Bend I do all of the day to day work except emergencies like HVAC. Honestly, I would say you could get away with it as long as you have a maintenance guy you can really trust. The other trick is quality tenants. The easiest way to get those is to have a decent property and price out the bad tenants. 

    Emergencies are 95% plumbing issues, appliances, and HVAC. Almost everything else can be planned out in advance or at least work completed within a reasonable time period(1 to 3 weeks).

    I order appliances from Home Depot and have them delivered, they take away the old one. Takes a 15min phone call. HVAC in South Bend, I have Great Lakes which is a bit pricey but they have always done a great job. I have been in Florida and had HVAC issues and a quick call to Great Lakes takes care of it. Plumbing is usually fauces or a drain that is clogged. There are a number of reliable services who can help with the various issues. 

  • Bernadeau C.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2014 · 540 posts · 230 votes
    5y

    @Charles Kennedy would you mind sharing that agent/handyman combo that use up there, i have been looking for something like that, since currently i do everything myself four hours away also but in the other direction haha

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