Emotional Support Animal
LuAnn MillerPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Sigourney, IA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 6 votesEmotional Support Animal
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
7yTread carefully. HUDs guidance memo does state if the disability is not readily apparent you may request proof from a "physician, psychiatrist, social worker, or a mental health professional." I think many would contend that a Nurse Practioner or Physiciand Assistant, both of which can prescribe medication or treatment would fall under the blanket of physician for this purpose.
District Invest Group546 Reviews
39 Replies
- Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes7y
Dealing with a tenant that has violated your lease rules is treated no different when addressing the ESA scammers.
It is very obvious since they did not inform you up front when applying that they had a ESA animal that they are lying. Most landlords are fearful of dealing with this issue due to the housing authority police. At this point in time you have given them sufficient time to comply and should now issue a order to comply or be evicted.
You have two choices hire a lawyer, as many will suggest, or proceed with a eviction for violation of your lease. It is very obvious she does not have the validation required and the dog is only a pet. Once you issue the eviction order you will find out the truth. Either she has the doctors letter, which she clearly does not, she will produce a fake one off of the internet or she will leave when you call her bluff. It's your property and your choice, act or sit on your hands out of fear and let her disrupt your life. I know what I would do but many would be afraid of the boogie man and drag their feet on a issue like this. You will see what I mean from many posts that will follow mine how much fear is actually out there and you must make a decision. Live with a scammer or evict.
Additionally I would expect that, although it may be a oversite, since the check was not signed chances are you will be receiving plenty of excuses and no rent. Did they pay or are you still chasing them. You should have also issued a pay or quit notice immediately. If you did not then you have no documentation and time is being wasted.
I believe that you did not adequately screen this tenant and you will unfortunately now have to pay the price in both money and stress. It's going to be a eviction so prepare yourself.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes7y
Tread carefully. HUDs guidance memo does state if the disability is not readily apparent you may request proof from a "physician, psychiatrist, social worker, or a mental health professional." I think many would contend that a Nurse Practioner or Physiciand Assistant, both of which can prescribe medication or treatment would fall under the blanket of physician for this purpose.
District Invest Group546 Reviews - Rental Property Investor · Sigourney, IA · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 6 votes7y
Thank you for the insight Thomas and Russell. We will more than likely proceed with a lawyer for this instance just to ensure we are not stepping over the legal border. And yes, Thomas we process our background checks with mysmartmove.com. Background checks do not reveal whether a support animal will be included with a particular transaction and we certainly cannot disregard a prospective tenant for that reason.
Again, thanks to both of you for the comments.
- Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes7y
Evict. They violated your lease by moving a "pet" into the property. Evict them immediately for violation of the lease terms and let them straighten out the paperwork for the next Landlord.
This is an extremely common tactic and Landlords should be more firm on their response.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes7y
By the way, your application should include a simple question: "Do you have a pet or service animal?"
You should also have a clause on the application or in your lease that says you can evict if you discover any of the information on their application was false.
The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews - Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
I believe HUD frowns upon their clients moving in other people, that aren't recipients of the voucher. So, if this dog belongs to the sister, who isn't supposed to stay there, you only need to get rid of the sister.
- Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 5 votes7y
Well a ESA is not covered by the ADA so you should be good. I deal with this all the time for my primary job while working at an airport. people bring all sorts of animals and claim they are service animals. I ask what type of service does it perform and if they say "emotional support" then they have to put the animal up and pay a fee. They hate this and some are getting smarter and stating the right answers the questions even though clearly mini Pomeranian alerts them to seizures is BS, but can question any further according to ADA guidelines. If they a are a good scammer and say service animal and for a disability and not emotional support animal I would consult an attorney. just my 2 cents
- Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes7y
"we process our background checks with mysmartmove.com."
I will assume you did not do any screening yourself. You should be visiting/checking out the tenants home before you accept them. That most likely would have revealed the pet and you should have asked if they had a ESA mental mutt as well when you have a no pet policy. ESA is the biggest scam going now with tenants having so much difficulty finding landlords that will allow pets. If you have a no pet policy expect mental mutts and ask in advance. If they say yes you can then find a better applicant and reject the scammers.
Lesson learned.
- Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Nathan Gesner:
By the way, your application should include a simple question: "Do you have a pet or service animal?"
Actually, the question should be, "What animals do you own?"
- Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes7y
Actually, the question should be, "What animals do you own?"
Good one. :>)
A loooong time ago I worked in collections, and when we got a check that was not signed we deposited it anyway. Most of the time it went right through, assuming they had the funds. They are mostly processed by machine. Just my $2, and ymmv.
- Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 294 posts · 104 votes7y@LuAnn Miller thebletter you ask can take a month to get. At some point I was asking for a letter from a doctor and a constant reply was that they dont actually give such letters. Well, in the end they fed up and wrote me one. But it can take forever. On another hand all my tenants with pets were very good, also the areas are A+
- 7yPeter TverdovBusiness MemberDeveloper · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes@LuAnn Miller I just dealt with this issue. The entire thing is such nonsense and is abused terribly. Call up the professional on the letter to confirm they wrote it. That’s about all you can do Imo. Take them to court if you want, but if they gave you a letter (unless it’s one of those fake ones online) you’ll probably lose.
- Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jason Rice:
Well a ESA is not covered by the ADA so you should be good. I deal with this all the time for my primary job while working at an airport. people bring all sorts of animals and claim they are service animals. I ask what type of service does it perform and if they say "emotional support" then they have to put the animal up and pay a fee. They hate this and some are getting smarter and stating the right answers the questions even though clearly mini Pomeranian alerts them to seizures is BS, but can question any further according to ADA guidelines. If they a are a good scammer and say service animal and for a disability and not emotional support animal I would consult an attorney. just my 2 cents
This attitude is the EXACT reason I stopped using my service dog. I have PTSD from combat but I'm built like an athlete so everywhere I go someone calls bs. I guess the 15 months in a combat zone , the doctors that diagnosed me and the instructors that we spent a year training with should just follow me around for life so everyone can know I'm not lying...
My point being, take it easy. You're probably wrong about most of those people. Some people will lie about it but most won't. Service animals are a popular alternative to drugs.
- Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Anthony R.:
My point being, take it easy. You're probably wrong about most of those people. Some people will lie about it but most won't. Service animals are a popular alternative to drugs.
Service animals ARE NOT the same as these emotional support animals. Service animals are trained and "certified" to perform a particular task. ESAs are just animals with no specialized skill set. The scammers claim the ESA moniker because it's much easier for them to get a note from a health professional than get Fluffy trained to become a "service animal."
Additionally, many unscrupulous web sites are tapping into this need for a workaround to "pet rent", additional deposits, or a no pets policy, and are marketing to people that desire that. Word is getting out and thus more and more landlords are seeing the dubious paperwork that is being presented for an "emotional support animal" from one of these websites as opposed to a local professional that has met with the tenant face-to-face for a doctor's visit.
- Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes7y
Originally posted by @Wesley W.:
Originally posted by @Anthony R.:
Service animals are trained and "certified"
Service animals don't get certified. You CAN get a certification for your service animal but the ADA clearly says that there's no formal certification process and you can't request a certificate. Once again, this is just another example of how bad information gets spread and why people like me don't use their service animals in public after hundreds and hundreds of hours of training.
Straight from their site
Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Anthony R.:
Originally posted by @Wesley W.:
Originally posted by @Anthony R.:
Service animals are trained and "certified"
Service animals don't get certified. You CAN get a certification for your service animal but the ADA clearly says that there's no formal certification process and you can't request a certificate. Once again, this is just another example of how bad information gets spread and why people like me don't use their service animals in public after hundreds and hundreds of hours of training.
Straight from their site
Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.
This is the correct ADA informationI'm sorry that you have to deal with PTSD and I'm glad that you have a service animal to assist you.
Now, your posts seem as if you're angry at us landlords, when your anger should be directed at those people that scam the system. They're the ones that make the life of a landlord difficult and we have to now dissect everything someone says to figure out if it's just a way to bring fluffy into their apartment. Yes, it happens a lot, contrary to what you may think.
Every time someone tells me that their dog stays in a cage at home when they go to work.....and I ask them why they're not taking it to work.....and they tell me that their work doesn't allow dogs.......I know it's b.s., because a job couldn't forbid a service dog to be present.
Every time someone tells me that they have a letter that states that their dog is a registered service dog and he/she is on the list that registers them......I know it's b.s., because there is no such registration or list for legit service animals. It's what's offered online by the scammers.
Every time someone tells me that they have several service dogs .....yeah, right, you paid thousands of $ to get 3 individual dogs trained on particular tasks, but you are living paycheck to paycheck and the dogs stay home during the day? That's b.s.
Are there exceptions to the above scenarios? Yes. But those are the 3 main scenarios that I've come across and I've called them on it, because I know they weren't real.
So, instead of being mad at us for our necessary reaction, you should fight to have an official registration started for service animals, as that would make it easy to figure out the fake ones and we, as landlords, as well as other businesses, could then relax and not have to be so on guard about this issue any longer.
- Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes7y
Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
Originally posted by @Anthony R.:
Originally posted by @Wesley W.:
Originally posted by @Anthony R.:
Service animals are trained and "certified"
Service animals don't get certified. You CAN get a certification for your service animal but the ADA clearly says that there's no formal certification process and you can't request a certificate. Once again, this is just another example of how bad information gets spread and why people like me don't use their service animals in public after hundreds and hundreds of hours of training.
Straight from their site
Q17. Does the ADA require that service animals be certified as service animals?A. No. Covered entities may not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal, as a condition for entry.
This is the correct ADA informationI'm sorry that you have to deal with PTSD and I'm glad that you have a service animal to assist you.
Now, your posts seem as if you're angry at us landlords, when your anger should be directed at those people that scam the system. They're the ones that make the life of a landlord difficult and we have to now dissect everything someone says to figure out if it's just a way to bring fluffy into their apartment. Yes, it happens a lot, contrary to what you may think.
Every time someone tells me that their dog stays in a cage at home when they go to work.....and I ask them why they're not taking it to work.....and they tell me that their work doesn't allow dogs.......I know it's b.s., because a job couldn't forbid a service dog to be present.
Every time someone tells me that they have a letter that states that their dog is a registered service dog and he/she is on the list that registers them......I know it's b.s., because there is no such registration or list for legit service animals. It's what's offered online by the scammers.
Every time someone tells me that they have several service dogs .....yeah, right, you paid thousands of $ to get 3 individual dogs trained on particular tasks, but you are living paycheck to paycheck and the dogs stay home during the day? That's b.s.
Are there exceptions to the above scenarios? Yes. But those are the 3 main scenarios that I've come across and I've called them on it, because I know they weren't real.
So, instead of being mad at us for our necessary reaction, you should fight to have an official registration started for service animals, as that would make it easy to figure out the fake ones and we, as landlords, as well as other businesses, could then relax and not have to be so on guard about this issue any longer.
I'm not mad at anyone. I was pointing out that the attitude Jason had toward people who claim to have emotional support animals is toxic at best. That said, I'd bet my bottom dollar that most people that come to comment here haven't read the ADA laws and that's indicative of a much greater problem.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
Anthony, again, if you were to support an official registry of service animals, it would eliminate any of those problems.
It would help landlords, restaurants, stores and those with legit service animals.
- Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes7y
Originally posted by @Michaela G.:
Anthony, again, if you were to support an official registry of service animals, it would eliminate any of those problems.
It would help landlords, restaurants, stores and those with legit service animals.
I do support that idea. It doesn't change what exists currently though and the lack there of shouldn't punish the people that took the time to do the work to get the animal. I don't think taking that frustration out on tenants is the correct outlet. You should be frustrated with your legislature.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Anthony R.:
It's the tenants that create the problem. If all people had integrity, we wouldn't need laws.
Since I'm not American I can't do anything about Legislature.
- Member since 2018 · 5 posts · 5 votes7y
Anthony is wrong and misunderstood me. Emotional support animals are not service animals and that is straight from the ADA. As a felllow vet with PTSD I know what your going through. I just stay within my limits and comply with the laws.
- Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes7y
Originally posted by @Jason Rice:
Anthony is wrong and misunderstood me. Emotional support animals are not service animals and that is straight from the ADA. As a felllow vet with PTSD I know what your going through. I just stay within my limits and comply with the laws.
Having personally trained my service dog at a school as a team, I'm well aware of the differences between an emotional support animal and a service dog. I'm not wrong about the attitude you have toward these people. Unless you've reviewed their medical history, you shouldn't be passing judgement on someone that claims to have one of these dogs. You have zero idea who they are or what they've been through. After having dealt with this personally for years it's extraordinary frustrating.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Anthony R.:
Originally posted by @Jason Rice:
Anthony is wrong and misunderstood me. Emotional support animals are not service animals and that is straight from the ADA. As a felllow vet with PTSD I know what your going through. I just stay within my limits and comply with the laws.
Having personally trained my service dog at a school as a team, I'm well aware of the differences between an emotional support animal and a service dog. I'm not wrong about the attitude you have toward these people. Unless you've reviewed their medical history, you shouldn't be passing judgement on someone that claims to have one of these dogs. You have zero idea who they are or what they've been through. After having dealt with this personally for years it's extraordinary frustrating.
I'm sorry about your frustration, but blaming Jason or any of us landlords is akin to 'victim shaming'. We have no problem with legit service animals, but we're beyond fed up with people that try to scam the system. We're the victims of those scammers and so are you/the ones with legit service animals.
- Property Manager · Lakewood, OH · Member since 2015 · 250 posts · 258 votes7y
If you're fed up with people that scam the system then you're required to handle it in the courts not via vigilante justice against someone you think is breaking the law
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