Well, that escalated quickly... (tenant accused me of stealing)

Well, that escalated quickly... (tenant accused me of stealing)

Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes

This was an interesting one. The heat at one of my units has been wonky -- its steam radiator heat with the old-school upright radiators, and some were giving off great heat and some were not. This particular unit has 3 people living in it -- a mother and her two sons. Mom only speaks Spanish, and mom and the eldest son (adult) are on the lease.

All week we've been trying some different things to solve the heating problem -- I was the only visitor to the house -- and today my plumbing/heating guy came by with his associate to flush the system. Only mom was home today, and she handed me the rent money in full as soon as I walked in the door. My guys get to work as we're up and down doing work, and then all the sudden we hear screaming and one of the guys tells us to come upstairs.

Mom (in Spanish) accused me, one of the workers, or someone that has worked for me, of stealing her watch. Mind you she's frantic and we're using google translate and the little bit of table Spanish we know to try and figure this out. She goes right to saying she's going to withhold it from the rent and continues to be near hysterical. I tell her in Spanish (thanks google!) that we're calling the police.

Thankfully the eldest son came home and translated, saying she's really upset (no kidding, we could tell) but he wants to look for the watch. Doesn't think we did anything and not sure why she's acting that way. I said we called the police since she believes there was a theft and we would be outside waiting.

The police come up and while we were waiting, apparently, mom DRIVES OFF (we didn't see it, probably too busy talking about how nutty this whole thing is) and the police officer grabs our information. Says since she isn't home...no victim, no crime, and she'll get us a report.

Mom magically comes home with her youngest son (I think she pulled him out of school) after the police leave and she won't even speak to me...just screaming at her kids to go inside. I spoke a little longer with the adult son, he seemed apologetic and said that they were going to look for the watch.

So I'm home now, and curious to know what my options are. Frankly I don't know how we can continue a relationship after being accused of a crime. How would mom and family be comfortable living in a home where she believes her landlord or landlord's sub are stealing, and how could I be comfortable knowing I may have a hostile tenant who thinks I or a sub are stealing from her? How do you recover? 

I'm thinking of telling them to clean up the place (not dirty, just prepare it for renting to someone else) and offering to mutually terminate the lease? I don't see a point in trying to mend this as she's either ghostly concerned her landlord is stealing, or is trying to pull a fast one on us.

I'm not sure if I'm overreacting, but how the heck could I move past this? They've been fine up to this point, rent is always on time, everyone was nice. The home itself has had issues that we've solved (quite a few in the beginning, but the house is new to us and so we're finding out problems as its being lived in...and solving them) but again, ultimately, my mind says how much worse will this get?

For those of you "need to screen better" folks -- this was the pick of the litter. Good credit, funds in hand, no prior evictions, glowing reports from previous landlord, verified employment with glowing reviews from management, etc.

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Carolina · Member since 2017 · 519 posts · 222 votes
7y

@Joe P.

Based on all the positives in regards to the information on the tenants from employers and past landlords... and everything checking out financially with them to live there... I would step back and see what happens.  Also, be careful to have anyone else's back 100% in regards to saying who did not take anything. I am not saying anyone stole the watch... but you can never say 100% that someone else (contractor) did not.  You'd be amazed at the people who get caught stealing. A lot of times it is about the high and not the item itself. It's a problem, not a need.  Hopefully, it is lost under a couch or something.... and found. But just be careful to vouch for people when you didn't have eyes on them the ENTIRE time. You just never know.  

I hope this all resolves quickly. I would not start thinking of having them move. Sound like decent tenants on paper.  Maybe this is a very sentimental object to the mother and she lashed out because she is scared and worried.

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  • Specialist · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 42 posts · 50 votes
    7y
    @Joe P. If this JUST happened, I'd give it some time to let everything settle down. The mom was understandably upset based on her thought that something was stolen, which she has every right to be. Follow up with the adult son in a few days to check to see how they are doing and if they found the watch. Who knows, maybe they did and it was a mistake. No need to make a decision to terminate the lease in the heat of the moment. Let things settle down and communicate with the tenant. If that's the ultimate resolution, that option will still be there in a week.
  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    I think you can work through this.  Talk to the son and give it a few days.  

    If they find the watch that is great - if they dont you may need to discuss with the subs and maybe offer to replace it? 

    If they are good tenants i would work on it 

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Jer Yeung thanks for your input, I am definitely giving it some time. I was supposed to perform some more work but I already told the tenant I was canceling.

    @Mary M. thanks for your input, I agree about letting cooler heads prevail. But I will under no circumstances replace her watch. I didn't steal it, my subs didn't steal it as far as I know, and with no proof there is no reason for me to give in and replace it. Then what happens when something else "disappears"? This is what leads me to believe that, assuming the watch is gone (I think it is...either she lost it or she's purposely misleading), how do you recover from it?

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y
    @Joe P. No crime has been committed so nothing to feel bad about or lose sleep over or pay for . Mom is clearly a lunatic who can’t handle life on life’s terms . I’d just continue as normal and if she tries withholding rent or playing more games just throw her out . Life is too short to deal with ranting idiots . I wouldn’t waste my time trying to reason with her she’s obviously got mental issues and wants to blame you regardless
  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    Work with the son, ignore the mother. I would not let the incident impact you personally.

    Follow @Dennis M. advice.

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Dennis M. my thoughts as well...except they are in possession of an asset that I own. We are only 3 months into a year lease and there are bound to be additional maintenance needs, visits, etc., throughout the course of 9 months. I'd like to see that asset returned to me in proper condition. A $1400 security deposit can only cover so much -- if someone wants to cause damage if they feel they have been wronged, it can be worth a lot more than a SD and be far more troubling.

    @Thomas S. what's strange is the son is so much more calm and collected than mom. He found the place, went through the screening process, is very communicative, understanding, and friendly. But is hard to ignore 50% of the people on the lease.

    Hoping all of this blows over and they find the watch. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    I’d Try to just deal with the son from this point on . mom is probably off her meds . Try to make lemonade out of lemon tenants .if it gets really bad get them out . No one says you have to wait 9 months longer for them to trash the place . There’s lots of ways of getting people out without waiting out the renewal date 

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    I know others will recommend evicting her, but honestly - is she a good tenant? If so then work it out. 

    You dont know if a sub took it therefore if this were me i would seek a middle ground and be sympathetic and open to listening. 

    Sometimes that is all it takes. 

    You can also talk to your sub and let them know that if one of their workers took it to return it no questions asked 

    In general I try to put myself in the shoes of others and think about it from their POV this approach has always helped me in challenging situations 

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    I’d Try to just deal with the son from this point on . mom is probably off her meds . Try to make lemonade out of lemon tenants .if it gets really bad get them out . No one says you have to wait 9 months longer for them to trash the place . There’s lots of ways of getting people out without waiting out the renewal date 

     I just dont understand this approach. The woman thinks someone stole something from her.  Why do you leap to them trashing the place? 

    You must have the worlds worst tenants to have such a sour POV of them. 

  • South Holland, IL · Member since 2017 · 376 posts · 432 votes
    7y
    @Joe P. How are you 100% sure the contractor didn’t steal the watch?
  • Carolina · Member since 2017 · 519 posts · 222 votes
    7y

    @Joe P.

    Based on all the positives in regards to the information on the tenants from employers and past landlords... and everything checking out financially with them to live there... I would step back and see what happens.  Also, be careful to have anyone else's back 100% in regards to saying who did not take anything. I am not saying anyone stole the watch... but you can never say 100% that someone else (contractor) did not.  You'd be amazed at the people who get caught stealing. A lot of times it is about the high and not the item itself. It's a problem, not a need.  Hopefully, it is lost under a couch or something.... and found. But just be careful to vouch for people when you didn't have eyes on them the ENTIRE time. You just never know.  

    I hope this all resolves quickly. I would not start thinking of having them move. Sound like decent tenants on paper.  Maybe this is a very sentimental object to the mother and she lashed out because she is scared and worried.

  • Madisonville, LA · Member since 2018 · 125 posts · 71 votes
    7y
    What she thinks happens is her problem. I wouldn't evict them over and would just continue on
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    7y

    @Joe P. most likely the mom believes someone stole the watch. They may have, but more likely she lost it. Mom probably drove off because she is not here legally and didn't want to get deported. 

    For that reason, I don't think she is going to trash your place or call the police. I am pretty sure you put the fear of God in her when you called the cops. If she shorts rent, start the eviction process, but I highly doubt anything will come of this. 

    I think you need to chill a little and move on. This may seem crazy to you, but trust me it is nothing. Just another day in the life of a property manager.

  • Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
    7y

    Move on. Some people act crazy, some of them will be your tenants. Last year I had a tenant complaining about the heat that absolutely refused to meet with us to discuss it, and we live in the building.  I though it was going to end badly, I offered to let her out of the lease, she took us up on it several uneventful months later.

    FWIW, my own mother is the 1st one to scream something she has misplaced has been stolen. It gets tiresome, at least when my dad was alive she could blame him. 

  • Catskill, NY · Member since 2018 · 636 posts · 668 votes
    7y

    I would wait it out a little bit and then contact the adult son and try to follow up. Any work that needs to be done from now on, I would make sure the adult son can be there the entire time work is being done. If you have subs doing the work, I would accompany them the entire time as well. Might be inconvenient, but much better than dealing with an episode like this again.

  • Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes
    7y
    @Joe P. She probably felt vulnerable with so many in the house at once. I hate to say it, but bringing a big crowd to a garage sale is sometimes designed to distract and steal. No one I know wears a watch except a smart watch....so unless hers was an apple watch or a rolex I cannot see it having much market value at all even if it has value to her. I doubt it was stolen. Check back, sympathize and chalk it up to a misunderstanding and her discomfort with the situation...it is her home and her valuables and three people she doesnt know well or at all.
  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    I wouldn't be surprised if they located her watch and the eldest son is mortified. 

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I appreciate everyone's input. Lots of different views but one of the main things is to let it cool down and then reach out to the eldest son, which I will do later in the week.

    A few folks have asked how I can be so sure a sub didn't take it. It's a valid point. How can she be so sure a sub took it? Also a valid point.

    I don't think there is anything more we can do. Ultimately I want them to feel safe in the house and that they can trust me or anyone who comes into the house. But I also have a business to run; if you're standing in a store next to an empty shelf and the owner comes up and accuses you of stealing whatever was on that shelf, but has no proof...are you just going to give them money because you were accused?

    My plan is to check in with them later this week and establish better visit protocols for me and for any folks coming in to do work. I will want the adult son there at all times anyone is in the property, and I will try and be there for all work that a sub will do. But it has to be some combination of me or him at all times.

  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 625 posts · 601 votes
    7y
    @Joe P. I would wait until rent was due again. If they pay in full no issue. If they don't then I'd start getting them out. You gave her a chance to file a police report right then and she bolted lol. Under no circumstances would I pay for something that was "stolen" with absolutely no proof SMH.
  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y
    @Joe P. I wouldn’t revisit this unless they bring it up. Likely nothing happens and you don’t want to open the wound again so to speak
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joe P.:

    I appreciate everyone's input. Lots of different views but one of the main things is to let it cool down and then reach out to the eldest son, which I will do later in the week.

    A few folks have asked how I can be so sure a sub didn't take it. It's a valid point. How can she be so sure a sub took it? Also a valid point.

    I don't think there is anything more we can do. Ultimately I want them to feel safe in the house and that they can trust me or anyone who comes into the house. But I also have a business to run; if you're standing in a store next to an empty shelf and the owner comes up and accuses you of stealing whatever was on that shelf, but has no proof...are you just going to give them money because you were accused?

    My plan is to check in with them later this week and establish better visit protocols for me and for any folks coming in to do work. I will want the adult son there at all times anyone is in the property, and I will try and be there for all work that a sub will do. But it has to be some combination of me or him at all times.

    Tenants should never leave valuable items sitting out in the open. Tenants also have the right to escort workers to any part of the home where they are doing work. Some workers do steal from places they do work or from their own place of employment. When I worked in retail, I got to know the loss prevention guys. They told me they spend 90% of their time watching employees, because they are more likely to steal than customers. You should never vouch for what others did or didn't do. Only speak to what you personally witnessed. There is nothing wrong with saying, "I am not saying you are lying, but I have no proof".

    I agree there is nothing more you can do, beyond improved protocols going forward. You should also mention it to the owner of the contractor who did work. Don't accuse anyone, but make sure they are aware of the tenants claim. 

  • St. Helena, CA · Member since 2016 · 147 posts · 59 votes
    7y
    It seems you have a plan. When following up with the adult son, I’d request he files a police report if the watch hasn’t shown up. Do this over email, so you have a record. You can’t prove 100% that it was not the Contractor of Sub, but the accuser failing to file a police report would probably work in your favor if you had to evict for non-payment.
  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 824 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Heywood:
    It seems you have a plan. When following up with the adult son, I’d request he files a police report if the watch hasn’t shown up. Do this over email, so you have a record. You can’t prove 100% that it was not the Contractor of Sub, but the accuser failing to file a police report would probably work in your favor if you had to evict for non-payment.

    I actually called the police yesterday and tried to get a report for my own sake and to show that I personally would not do this, and would seek to find out what happened. If you check my story from the beginning, mom conveniently sped off before the police arrived. Officer said no victim, no crime.

  • St. Helena, CA · Member since 2016 · 147 posts · 59 votes
    7y
    @Joe P. My thought is having some sort of paper trail, just in case. I think you’ve done the right thing and demonstrated that you take your tenants accusations seriously, despite whatever personal doubt you may have (I totally agree that her taking off is strange, there may be something more going on here). I hope this all blows over and you can come to an understanding with the son for the remainder of their time in your unit. Best of luck!
  • St. Helena, CA · Member since 2016 · 147 posts · 59 votes
    7y
    @Joe P. Sorry Joe, when I read “She’ll get us a report” I thought that it meant the mom would do it. Going to have to brush back up on my reading comprehension.
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