Battling HOA On Leaking Roof For 1 Year

General Landlording & Rental Properties
7yFollow

Battling HOA On Leaking Roof For 1 Year

Uneeq Khan
Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes

Wasn't sure which forum this topic should be on or if this even fitting topic for these forums but hopefully someone can help me.

I've been battling with my HOA for over a year now about leaks from my roof (April of last year). There are stains in the ceiling of my bedrooms, closets, and bathroom. Theres water damage to the plywood. In the winter, ice and frost developed all over the attic. Theres mold on the plywood and structural beam. Theres puddle of water on attic and wet insulation. Some leaks are dropping on my recessed lighting. I have now put a plastic cover on it to stop it from getting wet but those lights need air circulation. And now I have a squirrel in the attic.

The HOA president has been very lazy and been delay taking actions to fix it. Even the contractors he hire to plug holes said the entire thing needs to be replaced and he's (HOA president) not doing it. Contractor stated trying to plug holes is pointless as theres too many and impossible to get to all of them.

Do I have a case to sue? If not what do I need to build my case? And can anyone recommend a lawyer.

I have a 7 month old daughter. I don't want the mold in the attic to start causing health problems as well as the squirrel that's probably ******** everywhere in the attic. I don't know how to force my HOA to do anything beside a lawsuit.

I have a collection of photos and email and text messages with the HOA president. Some advice and help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

0Reply
230 views

Most Popular Reply

Account Closed
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

You must get involved with the HOA. Or, move.

HOA's are tough. Politics, differing opinions. You share property and must come to agreement on how to manage it. Nobody is going to be 100% happy 100% of the time. It's a mini-government. I used to live in one, and did not have the stomach for it, so I moved.

Your HOA is mismanaged. So, not only do you have all the regular HOA BS to contend with, you have the added fun of addressing the mismanagement. It may be impossible to get on track, because of the politics, opinions and finally, money.

All condos have declarations and rules. Get a copy of these and find out how to go about getting involved and making changes. The good news is, if the bi-laws are stupid, you can change them - again, not easy, but possible.

The excuse that the PM makes decisions is likely BS, but maybe not. You need to review the PM contract to find out.

Moving forward, it is wise to have healthy reserves for capital improvements. You wondered if this topic is appropriate for this forum. It is absolutely appropriate, because it illustrates what happens when reserves are not saved up for.

In many states, including WI, laws have been enacted that require HOA's to keep adequate reserves. The reason is that when an HOA relies on special assessments only, certain owners inevitably do save as they ought to, and that is how entire complexes go down. The fact your HOA does not have enough reserves, is just one piece of evidence it is mismanaged.

In my case, our HOA did the property management. This was actually the biggest problem. They thought they were saving money by doing it in-house. In reality, the HOA did not have the experience and resources to do the job right, and it cost us more money than it would have if it was hired out! Of course, having a good PM company is key. These things started to get straightened out eventually (it took years), but it literally took until the old-guard started dying off, before the newer owners could vote to change things.

Good luck. I would move.

3Reply
See this reply in the discussion

65 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Uneeq Khan

    If a unit needs a roof, why can't the HOA get three quotes, and hire from there. No point in paying a PM to do that. And since the HOA doesn't have rentals, what is the PM company doing?

    If there's going to be a president or whatever of the HOA, he/she needs to field the calls for maintenance. Maybe it's just me, but it doesn't make sense. And how many calls could the HOA possibly get in a month to need to pay a PM to field them

    0Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Uneeq Khan

    Ok one more rant because this is making me angry for you haha.

    I'd talk to a lawyer, not make another HOA payment until your roof and issues are addressed. You pay for this service and it's not being provided while putting your family at risk of breathing in mold.

    And possibly get your own quotes for fixing everything, and bring them to the HOA.

    1Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Matt Michaelson

    I've already got them quotes from contractors I used and even a quote from supplier for supplies. The contractor gave them a really low price as a favor to me cause he knows how the issue is affecting my house.

    I mentioned not paying the HOA fees, but they claim that the HOA fees pay for more than just roofs, and I still have to contribute since I'm getting everything else ( I guess landscaping and etc, idk).

    0Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Uneeq Khan

    Landscaping means noting with the issues you have. I’d be meeting with an attorney today.. this has gone on way to long

    2Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Matt Michaelson

    Ultimately what it looks like it's coming down to is that the HOA doesn't have the money for it. They get $4600/mo from fees and the job is costing $11k. If I take them to court, not sure what that'll do.

    0Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Uneeq Khan

    That’s not really your problem. If the roof isn’t your responsibility, the hoa needs to figure it out. Don’t back down, this is bs.

    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    @Uneeq Khan  That isn't your problem.  They will have normal operating expenses, but they should also have a reserve fund for repairs.  If they don't, they are in big trouble.  What happens 5 years down the road when all of the roofs need to be replaced?  Where will that money come from.  They are responsible for the exterior of the building, plane and simple.

    This is probably a silly idea and you'd need a lawyer to write it up...I don't know what your HOA fees are or how long you plan to live there, but if your HOA is $2000 per year and you plan on staying there for 5 years, you could tell them they need to pay $6K now for the roof and you will 'loan' them the other $5K at 7% interest and they can recoup it by you not paying your HOA fees for the next 2.5 years (and adding in the interest).

    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Theresa Harris

    If I take them to court, I'll have to sell and leave. Reason being is if I sue, the HOA fees will go up to compensate for what they'll have to pay out for the lawsuit (if they even have money to pay). The HOA fees will be too high to be worth it's value. I believe the HOA also pays insurance. And those insurance premium will go up after the lawsuit. Again, it'll increase the HOA fees to compensate. Or they might just file for bankruptcy and not pay anything and create a new HOA.

    I just don't see a situation where I don't lose one way or another.

    HOA president keeps saying that he can't just fix my roof on his command, it has be approved through the new PM company. I argued with him that he pays the PM company, he's their boss, they shouldn't have a say in it. I think he's once again being taken advantage of from the PM company like last time. He also believes that he has to use a roofing company that the PM suggests. I told him that's not the case. Purpose of PM company is they have a network that offers discount. And if they aren't the best price, Then they are kind of useless.

    The new PM company is sending a roof for another estimate. This would be the 4th one now.

    The new PM company is PMIPRIMEPROPERTY.COM

    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Theresa Harris

    I thought about the loan option, but then I'd have to figure out how to come up with that money to loan.

    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    If they go into bankruptcy for $11K, then the HOA is in trouble. They need to have a reserve and what about normal replacements or maintenance that have to be done (roof replacement, exterior painting, etc).

    You need to push harder to get on the board or have a board meeting. 

    1Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Theresa Harris

    I'm just as surprised that they don't have $11k in a reserve fund. I don't think they ever thought to keep reserve fund for capital expenditures.

    HOA is a nonprofit. Is it true that nonprofit financials should be public records?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    You must get involved with the HOA. Or, move.

    HOA's are tough. Politics, differing opinions. You share property and must come to agreement on how to manage it. Nobody is going to be 100% happy 100% of the time. It's a mini-government. I used to live in one, and did not have the stomach for it, so I moved.

    Your HOA is mismanaged. So, not only do you have all the regular HOA BS to contend with, you have the added fun of addressing the mismanagement. It may be impossible to get on track, because of the politics, opinions and finally, money.

    All condos have declarations and rules. Get a copy of these and find out how to go about getting involved and making changes. The good news is, if the bi-laws are stupid, you can change them - again, not easy, but possible.

    The excuse that the PM makes decisions is likely BS, but maybe not. You need to review the PM contract to find out.

    Moving forward, it is wise to have healthy reserves for capital improvements. You wondered if this topic is appropriate for this forum. It is absolutely appropriate, because it illustrates what happens when reserves are not saved up for.

    In many states, including WI, laws have been enacted that require HOA's to keep adequate reserves. The reason is that when an HOA relies on special assessments only, certain owners inevitably do save as they ought to, and that is how entire complexes go down. The fact your HOA does not have enough reserves, is just one piece of evidence it is mismanaged.

    In my case, our HOA did the property management. This was actually the biggest problem. They thought they were saving money by doing it in-house. In reality, the HOA did not have the experience and resources to do the job right, and it cost us more money than it would have if it was hired out! Of course, having a good PM company is key. These things started to get straightened out eventually (it took years), but it literally took until the old-guard started dying off, before the newer owners could vote to change things.

    Good luck. I would move.

    3Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    I'm only familiar with condos in Canada.  They have to disclose their financial statements once a year at the annual meeting and they have to have a certain amount of money (it is a percentage) set aside for contingencies.

    1Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Uneeq Khan

    Please go see an attorney. Your family's health is at risk with the mold. Something is not right with your HOA.

    1Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Matt Michaelson

    Thanks for all your help everyone. I spoke to a city councilman and he would send in a code enforcer. It would force them to address the roof leak and mold issue. I'm also going to request financial statements, and if he does give it over, or tells the PM company to not give it, then I'll work with the city to force them.

    The fees generate over $56k a year and he was notified of the roof issue for over a year now. The replacement cost $11k. So out of that $56k a year, he says he couldn't save aside $11k for the roof. But we get weekly landscaping work done. So the owners here thinks their money is being properly used. I've also noticed he's (HOA president) doing extensive home renovation on his unit. I wonder if any of that is being paid by HOA funds. He already got his front steps redone and it's much nicer design than everyone else's.

    The other owners in the complex are very inactive. I wouldn't even be able to get them to come to meets to vote for new directing members. One of the board member said she'd be willing to give up her position to me because she doesn't want it. But the HOA president keeps saying it's not that easy.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Uneeq Khan:

    @Matt Michaelson

    Thanks for all your help everyone. I spoke to a city councilman and he would send in a code enforcer. It would force them to address the roof leak and mold issue. I'm also going to request financial statements, and if he does give it over, or tells the PM company to not give it, then I'll work with the city to force them.

    The fees generate over $56k a year and he was notified of the roof issue for over a year now. The replacement cost $11k. So out of that $56k a year, he says he couldn't save aside $11k for the roof. But we get weekly landscaping work done. So the owners here thinks their money is being properly used. I've also noticed he's (HOA president) doing extensive home renovation on his unit. I wonder if any of that is being paid by HOA funds. He already got his front steps redone and it's much nicer design than everyone else's.

    The other owners in the complex are very inactive. I wouldn't even be able to get them to come to meets to vote for new directing members. One of the board member said she'd be willing to give up her position to me because she doesn't want it. But the HOA president keeps saying it's not that easy.

    It probably is not possible to simply take over a position. Your condo will have bi-laws that govern that stuff. Likely the other owner would need to officially step down, creating a vacancy. Then sometimes those open positions are available for the interim, until the next cycle for voting comes up - how and if the interim positions are filled? Who knows. Again, your first step is to get a copy of the bi-laws and declarations. That will be the first thing a lawyer asks you for. Those documents will tell you what and how to go about all of it. Further, if your association is in financial trouble, getting the city involved might be a bad play, if they enforce mold issues and stuff like that. You are going at this from too many angles, when there is only one path to be taken.

    I would not jump to accuse the president of theft. That is a serious accusation, and you make it with pure speculation and ignorance. You may very well have to work with this person in the future (can't simply evict an owner). Again, you must get involved, and that will take time and energy on your part. Once you are involved and in the thick of it, the truth will show itself.

    1Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Merritt S.

    You are right I don't have much information about whether he's stealing or not. And I should gather more evidence before I do. But there's a lot to be suspicious about, but so far, it's just suspicion. He refuses to let me be part of the board and doesn't show me any of the financials. But he's very quick to fix issues regarding his immediate area or his unit. He always seem to have money available for those issues.

    I spoke with the HOA president and ask for financials and told me to get it from the new management company. New PM company said to go to old PM company. Old PM company said get it from new PM company. I'm getting nowhere on obtaining the financials. I don't know how else to get the financials.

    I've reviewed the by laws and here's the info I've found.

    The board can't be held responsible for misuse of funds. Boards can't be held responsible for any action or inaction. Board members can hold meetings without association members and make decisions through "special meetings". The board can take action without a meeting as long as all board members agree. But the rules also said that 50% of the homeowner members must be present for voting. Books and records are available for members but at a cost. It's not free information. By laws says there's an election every year but we've never seen an election or had to vote in the 2 years we lived here. It also says the term of the position is also one year for each position. Doesnt say anything about how many times you can be reelected. There's only 3 board positions available but the board can create new positions if they want. So the board member who doesn't want her job can resign if she wants and I can fill that spot. It has nothing to do with the PM company.

    I think he just doesn't want me to have access to board information and how they are using the funds. Again, just suspicion right now. I had questioned him in the past about why we pay for irrigation but I've never seen the sprinklers on. I even check my cameras. When the front steps needed to be fixed, everyone got a very simple bland design but his front step has a nice brick design. And we pay for an audit of the financials but now it's so difficult to get a hold of the financials.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Uneeq Khan:

    @Merritt S.

    You are right I don't have much information about whether he's stealing or not. And I should gather more evidence before I do. But there's a lot to be suspicious about, but so far, it's just suspicion. He refuses to let me be part of the board and doesn't show me any of the financials. But he's very quick to fix issues regarding his immediate area or his unit. He always seem to have money available for those issues.

    I spoke with the HOA president and ask for financials and told me to get it from the new management company. New PM company said to go to old PM company. Old PM company said get it from new PM company. I'm getting nowhere on obtaining the financials. I don't know how else to get the financials.

    I've reviewed the by laws and here's the info I've found.

    The board can't be held responsible for misuse of funds. Boards can't be held responsible for any action or inaction. Board members can hold meetings without association members and make decisions through "special meetings". The board can take action without a meeting as long as all board members agree. But the rules also said that 50% of the homeowner members must be present for voting. Books and records are available for members but at a cost. It's not free information. By laws says there's an election every year but we've never seen an election or had to vote in the 2 years we lived here. It also says the term of the position is also one year for each position. Doesnt say anything about how many times you can be reelected. There's only 3 board positions available but the board can create new positions if they want. So the board member who doesn't want her job can resign if she wants and I can fill that spot. It has nothing to do with the PM company.

    I think he just doesn't want me to have access to board information and how they are using the funds. Again, just suspicion right now. I had questioned him in the past about why we pay for irrigation but I've never seen the sprinklers on. I even check my cameras. When the front steps needed to be fixed, everyone got a very simple bland design but his front step has a nice brick design. And we pay for an audit of the financials but now it's so difficult to get a hold of the financials.

    Well, all that is certainly suspicious. I would be worried myself. While the board as a body can not be held accountable for misuse of funds, any individual can be, if it turns out to be they are using the money for personal property. The other potential issue is straight-up theft of funds. 

    While the board can not be held accountable for misuse of funds, they can be held accountable if they do not follow the rules. In that event, it may be possible to sue the association (which means suing yourself - lol).

    As far as why he won't provide the information, there are many possible reasons. One is simply a matter of control. Another is that it is not fun to cater to the whim of every individual owner when serving as a board member. Finally, if they are mismanaging or stealing, they don't want to be found out.

    I would pony up and pay any fee for all condo documents. Start there first, then start to work your way in to the board. They can make decisions without you, but they can not withhold information from you.

    This is a hard road my friend. I did not have the stomach for it and moved into a single family for the very things you are going through. You mentioned their unit is getting more attention than others. I experienced the same thing, and found out the squeaky wheel got the grease. You have to make nice and be a complainer at the same time. Have fun with that.

    Good luck.

    1Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Merritt S.

    Yeah this is very unfortunate because I was sort of treating my place as a "live in flip" in the sense that we were to live here for 5 years and in that time renovate it slowly while saving for the next house. Then we would rent this one out when we got the new place. Even when I rent this out, as the owner I would still have to deal with the HOA. The location is INCREDIBLE (next to 2 train stations. Exit off major highways, and close to shops like Costco, whole foods, target, and home depot). And it's the only reason I don't want to get rid of it.

    I've been saving all emails and screenshot all text messages in case a lawyer ends up needing this. I would pay for the financial documents but that option hasn't been offered to me by anyone because each claim they don't have it.

    Funny thing is the HOA president always complains to me how he hates being the HOA president, but never allows me to help him.

    I'm going to start talking to other owners to get involved in the meeting and then force an election during the annual meeting as the by law states, and then hopefully get elected. I also have no idea when those meetings are suppose to take place. Doesn't say in the by law and in the past it was whenever they felt like it.

    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Merritt S.

    For a couple of weeks the HOA president has been avoiding me. When I pull into the parking lot or if he sees me coming out of my home, he runs into his house quickly. Yesterday I cornered him as he pulled into parking lot.

    So they are working on getting funds by either raising HOA fees or getting a loan to get the roofs done. I asked what happened to all the capital reserve and he has no answer for it. Then he tried to put blame on previous PM saying he doesn't know what they did with all the reserves. They collected it and he doesnt know where it went. I said they pay for an audit every year on our financials, where are those audit documents and he said he doesn't know. So there's a lot of missing money in the HOA account.

    I have no proof of this but I suspect he used those reserve cash to remodel his house and was expecting to pay it back before it was going to be used. Explains why he does his best to postpone the roof issue for over a year now. He also complained in the past how he has to work multiple job and he struggles financially, but now he somehow has money for a massive renovation of his home. I know its massive because he told me to come inside and look to basically show off the work he got done.

    So the finances don't make sense. The PM company kept capital reserves for so many years and now all of a sudden there's no record of it. And he doesn't really care to investigate it. Just shrugs it off.

    I can get a city code official to look at the conditions of the roof and force HOA to fix it, but how will they do it if they have no money. So not sure if there's a good strategy. And the financials really need to be investigated but I don't know who can do it and how. They won't give me any documents, because apparently no one has it. Even though we have an audit every year. Even doing a lawsuit seem like an empty victory. I need to figure out a way to force a financial investigation into this.

    He also got quotes for the roofs from 6 different contractors. And he's looking to do more. I don't understand why he keeps asking for more contractors unless he's trying to stall.

    0Reply
  • Victor S.
    WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Uneeq Khan: 
    I need to figure out a way to force a financial investigation into this.

    Yes, you do. Is there anyone else upset in your community that would be willing to pitch in for an attorney's time? An hour of time could provide you with what options you might have. Do you have a copy of your HOA's rules and regulations, mediation, etc.?

    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Victor S.

    I have a copy of the rules regulation and by laws. How would the attorney be able to get all the financial document? Can't they just give the same story to him?

    0Reply
  • Victor S.
    WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Uneeq Khan:

    @Victor S.

    I have a copy of the rules regulation and by laws. How would the attorney be able to get all the financial document? Can't they just give the same story to him?

     my assumption would be that they could advise if there is anything you can do regarding those financials (bringing in an independent auditor, etc.), as well as any other measures that may be available to rectify this situation. 

    0Reply
  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    I don't have much to add except that you should absolutely not back down from this. As an owner, you have every right to hose financials. You also have an HOA that is terribly run. PM companies do not just "lose" money. They also, report to the owners. They should be supplying you with any information you ask for.
    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Andrew Boettcher

    Previous PM company won't supply any info because we are no longer their client. A new PM company took over in the start of May.

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free