Battling HOA On Leaking Roof For 1 Year

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Battling HOA On Leaking Roof For 1 Year

Uneeq Khan
Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes

Wasn't sure which forum this topic should be on or if this even fitting topic for these forums but hopefully someone can help me.

I've been battling with my HOA for over a year now about leaks from my roof (April of last year). There are stains in the ceiling of my bedrooms, closets, and bathroom. Theres water damage to the plywood. In the winter, ice and frost developed all over the attic. Theres mold on the plywood and structural beam. Theres puddle of water on attic and wet insulation. Some leaks are dropping on my recessed lighting. I have now put a plastic cover on it to stop it from getting wet but those lights need air circulation. And now I have a squirrel in the attic.

The HOA president has been very lazy and been delay taking actions to fix it. Even the contractors he hire to plug holes said the entire thing needs to be replaced and he's (HOA president) not doing it. Contractor stated trying to plug holes is pointless as theres too many and impossible to get to all of them.

Do I have a case to sue? If not what do I need to build my case? And can anyone recommend a lawyer.

I have a 7 month old daughter. I don't want the mold in the attic to start causing health problems as well as the squirrel that's probably ******** everywhere in the attic. I don't know how to force my HOA to do anything beside a lawsuit.

I have a collection of photos and email and text messages with the HOA president. Some advice and help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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Account Closed
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y

You must get involved with the HOA. Or, move.

HOA's are tough. Politics, differing opinions. You share property and must come to agreement on how to manage it. Nobody is going to be 100% happy 100% of the time. It's a mini-government. I used to live in one, and did not have the stomach for it, so I moved.

Your HOA is mismanaged. So, not only do you have all the regular HOA BS to contend with, you have the added fun of addressing the mismanagement. It may be impossible to get on track, because of the politics, opinions and finally, money.

All condos have declarations and rules. Get a copy of these and find out how to go about getting involved and making changes. The good news is, if the bi-laws are stupid, you can change them - again, not easy, but possible.

The excuse that the PM makes decisions is likely BS, but maybe not. You need to review the PM contract to find out.

Moving forward, it is wise to have healthy reserves for capital improvements. You wondered if this topic is appropriate for this forum. It is absolutely appropriate, because it illustrates what happens when reserves are not saved up for.

In many states, including WI, laws have been enacted that require HOA's to keep adequate reserves. The reason is that when an HOA relies on special assessments only, certain owners inevitably do save as they ought to, and that is how entire complexes go down. The fact your HOA does not have enough reserves, is just one piece of evidence it is mismanaged.

In my case, our HOA did the property management. This was actually the biggest problem. They thought they were saving money by doing it in-house. In reality, the HOA did not have the experience and resources to do the job right, and it cost us more money than it would have if it was hired out! Of course, having a good PM company is key. These things started to get straightened out eventually (it took years), but it literally took until the old-guard started dying off, before the newer owners could vote to change things.

Good luck. I would move.

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  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Uneeq Khan:

    @Andrew Boettcher

    Previous PM company won't supply any info because we are no longer their client. A new PM company took over in the start of May.

     That's messy, and admittedly not something I have experience with. All I know is you DO have a right to the financials and this is whole issue is making me MAD. The Board of Trustees owes a Fiduciary Duty to the owners, and this president is cleary taking advantage.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Uneeq Khan:

    @Merritt S.

    You are right I don't have much information about whether he's stealing or not. And I should gather more evidence before I do. But there's a lot to be suspicious about, but so far, it's just suspicion. He refuses to let me be part of the board and doesn't show me any of the financials. But he's very quick to fix issues regarding his immediate area or his unit. He always seem to have money available for those issues.

    I spoke with the HOA president and ask for financials and told me to get it from the new management company. New PM company said to go to old PM company. Old PM company said get it from new PM company. I'm getting nowhere on obtaining the financials. I don't know how else to get the financials.

    I've reviewed the by laws and here's the info I've found.

    The board can't be held responsible for misuse of funds. Boards can't be held responsible for any action or inaction. Board members can hold meetings without association members and make decisions through "special meetings". The board can take action without a meeting as long as all board members agree. But the rules also said that 50% of the homeowner members must be present for voting. Books and records are available for members but at a cost. It's not free information. By laws says there's an election every year but we've never seen an election or had to vote in the 2 years we lived here. It also says the term of the position is also one year for each position. Doesnt say anything about how many times you can be reelected. There's only 3 board positions available but the board can create new positions if they want. So the board member who doesn't want her job can resign if she wants and I can fill that spot. It has nothing to do with the PM company.

    I think he just doesn't want me to have access to board information and how they are using the funds. Again, just suspicion right now. I had questioned him in the past about why we pay for irrigation but I've never seen the sprinklers on. I even check my cameras. When the front steps needed to be fixed, everyone got a very simple bland design but his front step has a nice brick design. And we pay for an audit of the financials but now it's so difficult to get a hold of the financials.

    Hmm. Well, one way to play hardball is to draft a letter and send it to each and every owner in the HOA.

    ..."To all owners of the HOA, I have reason to suspect our HOA president is embezzling our reserve funds. I have requested financial and audit documents on numerous occasions and (insert presidents name here) has refused my requests and/or claims the documents do not exist. Meanwhile, after claiming personal financial hardship, (insert presidents name) somehow has the money to do a major remodel on their unit. As a starting measure to get to the bottom of this, I am hosting an HOA meeting on (insert date of your choosing) at (pick a place) and I urge all owners to attend. There we can discuss the next step to bring our financials in order.

    So basically, you go over the presidents and other board members heads, and organize the owners against them...lol...call it a revolution. Call this guy out and the truth will show itself quick enough. Maybe hold the impromptu meeting outside his front door.

    And, you can stop paying dues too. That will prompt them to take action against you, which at this point might be exactly what you want meaning, you want to get engaged with these people who are currently ignoring you. 

    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Merritt S.

    I've had some back and forth with the president recently. Basically he wants to be a hands off president. Basically all the power and none of the responsibilities. He keeps telling me to stop talking to him and talk to the property manager about everything. Even financials. He claims it's not his duty to manage the finances or keep track of them. It's the property manager. Property management company says they don't have records of any of the previous financials. Old property management company does, and old one won't give them since we are no longer a client.

    Property manager told me that a meeting will be held in 2 weeks where they will discuss raising the HOA fees to cover the cost of the loan they need to take out to get the roofs done. So it seems some progress is being made to fix the roof. But instead of using the money that should have been in the reserve, they are raising the fees to cover it.

    I've spoken to a few lawyers but they are all charging a lot for their time and I just can't afford it at the moment.

    There will certainly be a battle in the meeting and I will surely call him out on it. He is very petty and I know he'll tell everyone he is raising the fees because I am making them fix the roof.

    I think I'll be dropping off letters to each of the owners doors explaining the situation and raise awareness about the president's dealing.

    I wanted to start a mutiny but I just don't see the others enough in passing to talk to them. Dropping a letter off will be the best.

    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Merritt S.

    I also want to go to county prosecutor to investigate but they won't move on it unless I can provide some solid evidence. It's not worth their time.

    0Reply
  • Anthony Rosa
    Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    7y

    There needs to be an assessment to pay for a new roof for all 20 units. The HOA collects $4600 per month. Deduct for PM fees and the complex handyman and nothing is left over. Find out how much money is in the HOA reserves.

    0Reply
  • Dana WhickerPro Member
    Investor · Fernandina Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 557 posts · 374 votes
    7y

    Changing property management companies in the middle of all this is more than suspicious. I have lived through a very similar situation. It's almost a slam dunk the money was being mishandled or outright stolen by either the previous property management company or the president.

    I would like to note that neither the president nor property management company can tell you you can't have a board seat. That's laughable. Something shady has been going on and the president is trying to hide it. Time for a revolt, but not to get your money back, to ensure this doesn't happen again. You'll probably never get the money back, your fees are going up or your about to pay a special assessment. However, if you continue to live there, you probably need to get on the board and take over.

    1Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Dana Whicker

    So I managed to get my self on the HOA board by using the bylaws against them. Next will be to kick the old members out and put in new members but I just can't get enough engagement.

    While investigating into past issues and handling of money, the previous HOA board just did a terrible job running it. They always gave preference to cosmetic issues like landscaping and power washing instead of issues that are hazardous and code violations. Peoples front steps are falling apart rear decks are falling apart, others have leaks in their roofs too. Nothing was done. But somebody's dog took a piss on "his grass" in front of his home, he threw a fit, filled a lawsuit, and spent a bunch of HOA money to redo the landscape. He wouldn't fix others front step, but he was quick to fix his own, and replaced it with a better design while everyone else got a bland design. They are now proposing on spending $2k on the entrance sign, even though you can repaint it for $100 and it would be just as good. They want to run an electric line to get some lights by the sign but solar powered garden lights would be just as good.

    They have finally address the roof issue. The HOA is taking a loan out to get the roofs done and the loan will be paid by increasing the HOA fees to cover the monthly payment for the loan.

    They are finally allowing me to review the financial documents but it's all paper, none is digital, and I have to find time during business hours by taking a day off to drive 45 minutes to go look at these unorganized boxes of documents. Making it very difficult for me to review. Also come to find out two owners have not been paying HOA fees. Total of over $11k in delinquency. This information was not only hidden from all the other owners but the title companies when they requested this information from the HOA.

    HOA president clearly doesn't know the by laws for our Association. So surprised he's president. Sometimes I feel like he just makes up his own rules and no one (besides me) questions it. Now I carry digital copies I made of the rules with me on my phone and just fact check him everytime he speaks to me.

    At the moment it's hard to determine if there was money being stolen or anything shady done with the finances or hes just very very very bad at his job and stupid AF. He wants to be a completely hands off president. Have all the power but none of the responsibilities.

    Overall ... small progress. Thanks to all who have given me advice on the matter. I appreciate the help and support.

    1Reply
  • Dana WhickerPro Member
    Investor · Fernandina Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 557 posts · 374 votes
    7y

    @uneeq Kahn Wow you've made some great progress. Nice work. Way to take care of business!

    1Reply
  • Elise Whittenburg
    Rental Property Investor · Niceville, FL · Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 13 votes
    7y

    @Uneeq Khan when was the last time you attend a Board meeting or looked at a set of financials? As an owner, you have every right to do those things. Does the association have reserves set up?

    What do your documents say about roof replacement/repairs?

    The president isn’t the only one who makes decisions. The board acts collectively and it should be brought up to all of them, not just one. If your Association doesn’t have regular board meetings, find out who the other board members are and write or reach out to them

    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    7y

    @Elise Whittenburg

    We just had a meeting last week. We don't have regular meeting. Only when there's an issue the president is pissed off about.

    I've only seen the finances that was presented to me. Not all the finances that are available, such as transactions in the reserve funds, and expenses made to vendors, and collection of assessments. These were not given even though it was requested. If I want to see them, I have to take a day off and go to the office during business hour to review the unorganized boxes of documents. They are. Ot willing to organize it to make it easy review.

    The president thinks all this information is not suppose to be available to the members, only board. However the by law says otherwise. That's why they are finally allowing me to view it.

    There were only 2 members before. Now there's 4, including me.

    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    6y

    @Dana Whitaker

    In case anyone was wondering or care about the progress ... I FINALLY got my roof fixed. Not only that but I staged a coup and replaced the president and vice president of the HOA. I'm now the president and got two other active and support members on the board. More than Half the complex was in support of this and they all wanted the president out. Just no one did anything about it.

    I held a special meeting and election I hosted using the rules in the by laws and articles of incorporation. He tried to block the meeting saying I couldn't do it or that it was illegal. He had no idea what he was talking about. He even tried to hold his own meeting on the same day and time. But no one supported him.

    We put a lot of new plans in place to improve the community and all of our property value. The former president is going around aggressively approaching other members who were at the meeting and complaining. But he's out and can't do anything about it.

    Now we're focusing on fixing everyone else's roof too. Many people had bad roofs just no one said anything because they knew the president wouldn't do anything.

    3Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Uneeq Khan just because the docs say the HOA can't be held responsible for misuse doesn't make it true. They can be held responsible for violating fiduciary duty.

    Also, given that you are in a worst case scenario right now you might as well go all in and spread the damage among all the residents instead of just you. May be able to get legal fees back too.

    Better to Get the insurance in on this sooner rather than later. Premiums or not this is what it’s for

    0Reply
  • Russ B.
    Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 319 posts · 330 votes
    6y

    Thanks for the followup - it's always good to be able to hear how the story ended. 

    I'm curious if you ended up finding any any impropriety in the finances? Guessing it was just badly mismanaged? 

    Either way, it sounds like you've made a difference for you and your neighbors! 

    1Reply
  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Uneeq Khan:

    @Dana Whitaker

    In case anyone was wondering or care about the progress ... I FINALLY got my roof fixed. Not only that but I staged a coup and replaced the president and vice president of the HOA. I'm now the president and got two other active and support members on the board. More than Half the complex was in support of this and they all wanted the president out. Just no one did anything about it.

    I held a special meeting and election I hosted using the rules in the by laws and articles of incorporation. He tried to block the meeting saying I couldn't do it or that it was illegal. He had no idea what he was talking about. He even tried to hold his own meeting on the same day and time. But no one supported him.

    We put a lot of new plans in place to improve the community and all of our property value. The former president is going around aggressively approaching other members who were at the meeting and complaining. But he's out and can't do anything about it.

    Now we're focusing on fixing everyone else's roof too. Many people had bad roofs just no one said anything because they knew the president wouldn't do anything.


    Good Job! Were you every able to audit the old records to find out if the old president was embezzling funds?
    0Reply
  • Uneeq Khan
    OP
    Bound Brook, NJ · Member since 2018 · 171 posts · 37 votes
    6y

    @Andrew B. @Russ B. @Dana Whicker

    So it turns out, even though we were paying for an audit every year, there was never an audit done. Ever. All the documents are unorganized. And in order for us to get our hands on it, we'd have to schedule a meeting in advance with the PM to come visit during office hours (so we'd have to take a day off from work) and then sit there to go through it. None of the new board members wants to take a day off to 'maybe' find something. And it we can't use HOA funds to pay for an account to go through it all to make sense of it. All the homeowners would be angry if we did. But the previous president just completely renovated his house, bought a new car for his wife, and bought a new car for his daughter. That's lots of cash all of a sudden. He's a firefighter so I'm not sure how he can afford that. But I also don't know if he has any profitable side gigs, it could be that. I wish he would get audited by the IRS. Whether he was embezzling or not, he was very negligent and wasn't doing his fiduciary duties. And he was signing all checks when the rule says you need two board members signatures on checks. He would hire all his buddies to do work around the complex. And its hard to find evidence of kick backs. He needed to go. But according to other people who were on the boards many years ago, there should have been more money in the reserve account than there is.

    We made a lot of improvement that the old president didn't pay attention to. First set of roofs has been fixed. I personally fixed the broken fence. Organized the dumpster and created civilized rules. And i'm about to personally fix the pot holes in the parking lot. Everyone is being heard and there's more community involvement. People are very happy with the new board. However, they are very unhappy with the property management company. Very unresponsive. That's a different story. 

    Thank you all for your support and advice. I really appreciate it. 

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