Creative way to evict a tenant - Legal?

Creative way to evict a tenant - Legal?

John UnderwoodPro Member
Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes

I was just typing up my notes from a 3 day real estate seminar that my real estate club sponsored and a light bulb turned on.

So some background:

I purchased a house that had some title issues because of tax deeds in the chain of title. The Tax deeds are over 10 years old and SC law says they can't be contested if older than 2 years old. I tried to evict the current occupants who were the owners at one time but they never paid the taxes which were delinquent already when they bought the house. I found where the county did notify them but they took no action. The occupants hired an attorney who is a state legislator and SC law says he doesn't have to come to court until the legislature is out of session. So I am in a holding pattern. I did go ahead and start a Quiet Title due to the circumstances.

So the class I took had a section on Master leasing and the instructor told a story about a person doing a master lease to his company and evicting the company (himself). So the person with the sublease never was the wiser till the constable showed up with a court order to set them out. I could use a private server to serve my company so that there would not be anything posted on the property until maybe right before the set out. Not sure on that. If they did get a notice they would be scrambling at the last minute to try and stop the set out. I would be evicting myself and all occupants.

I realize this may be a stretch, but I am the legal owner of the property and there is nothing to stop me from signing a lease with someone or an entity. That entity could refuse to pay rent and get evicted along with any other occupants.

I am just brainstorming right now but would love to hear thoughts from everyone, but especially from any attorneys.

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Kingston, NY · Member since 2017 · 252 posts · 138 votes
7y

@John Underwood if he’s an elected official then go to the media. They love this kind of abuse of power crap.

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  • Rental Property Investor · TX · Member since 2019 · 303 posts · 364 votes
    7y

    @John Underwood 

    How can you evict someone who never had a contractually obligation to pay you? They're not your tenant. This sounds like trespassing to me.

    In Florida, we have a law where I can have you served for trespassing, and the sheriff will escort you from the premises and arrest you on site if they catch you violating it. The person served cannot contest the Trespass Warning, and it is valid for life!

    If you own the SC property, and someone else is living in it, I would find a smarter attorney than the one you have now.

    NOT a wise investment to buy a property with the home owner (or anyone) still occupying it. They could literally cancel their homeowners insurance and set it on fire the next day.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Hall:

    @John Underwood 

    How can you evict someone who never had a contractually obligation to pay you? They're not your tenant. This sounds like trespassing to me.

    In Florida, we have a law where I can have you served for trespassing, and the sheriff will escort you from the premises and arrest you on site if they catch you violating it. The person served cannot contest the Trespass Warning, and it is valid for life!

    If you own the SC property, and someone else is living in it, I would find a smarter attorney than the one you have now.

    NOT a wise investment to buy a property with the home owner (or anyone) still occupying it. They could literally cancel their homeowners insurance and set it on fire the next day.

     I have insurance on property since I am the legal owner.

  • Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    7y

    @John Underwood

    Geez man This sounds really complicated . Have you talked to a lawyer about this situation

  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Steve Hall

    I remember @John Underwood discussing this case on an earlier thread.  His problems stem from the occupants' attorney whom, it appears, is abusing his position as a legislator to get a continuance on the eviction hearing until the government gets its summer recess.  The OP has already been waiting a few months.  This is the kind of stuff that gives attorneys (and legislators) a bad name.

    Good luck to you, John.  I hope you find a workaround, or call the media on this POS.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    @John Underwood

    Geez man This sounds really complicated . Have you talked to a lawyer about this situation

     I have an attorney who has already started a Quiet Title so that I am the plaintiff on the bigger issue.

    I may call some other attorney to find a way to get them out before the Quiet Title is through.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Dennis M.:

    @John Underwood

    Geez man This sounds really complicated . Have you talked to a lawyer about this situation

     Yes, but I may get some other opinions on getting them out sooner rather than later.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y

    I suspect at least in this case the lawyer representing the tenants would have a field day with your master lease after the fact.

    but if you set up the master lease before you move a tenant in on a sub lease maybe that works but it does preclude the other party to due notice and their day in court.

    this is the same as HML having borrowers sign DIL's at the inception of the loan.. that's not legal but done all the time and some that default just walk away but if anyone raised the issue the court would over turn the dil in heart beat.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    I suspect at least in this case the lawyer representing the tenants would have a field day with your master lease after the fact.

    but if you set up the master lease before you move a tenant in on a sub lease maybe that works but it does preclude the other party to due notice and their day in court.

    this is the same as HML having borrowers sign DIL's at the inception of the loan.. that's not legal but done all the time and some that default just walk away but if anyone raised the issue the court would over turn the dil in heart beat.

     I get what your saying. But I own legally own this house and could legally sign a lease with anyone that would be willing to sign a contract with me. I have no lease or obligation to the hold over tenants that came with the house. As far as I am concerned they are squatters that are trespassing.  They of course have a different opinion. 

  • Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Steve Hall

    The trespass scenario is one in a million. All depends on the cop that shows up. While what you are saying is true, 99% of the cops in Jacksonville that have showed up to the house when I try this maneuver instantly kick it to a civil matter and push eviction, not trespassing. Depends if you get a lazy cop or a real cop...depends if they want to do there job that day...

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    I suspect at least in this case the lawyer representing the tenants would have a field day with your master lease after the fact.

    but if you set up the master lease before you move a tenant in on a sub lease maybe that works but it does preclude the other party to due notice and their day in court.

    this is the same as HML having borrowers sign DIL's at the inception of the loan.. that's not legal but done all the time and some that default just walk away but if anyone raised the issue the court would over turn the dil in heart beat.

     I get what your saying. But I own legally own this house and could legally sign a lease with anyone that would be willing to sign a contract with me. I have no lease or obligation to the hold over tenants that came with the house. As far as I am concerned they are squatters that are trespassing.  They of course have a different opinion. 

    not sure in SC as I don't hold rentals there.. but I have been buying courthouse steps and tax sales going on 40 years now.. and hold over tenants in all of my deals and they number in the 100's have always been subject to eviction laws not trespassing.. and crap out here in liberal land west coast many times even full blown squatters the cops will tell U you have to evict.

    during the GFC in CA untold thousands of people moved into vacant homes and squatted for years.. they knew they could get cash for keys.. I mean some of them moved into mansions.. LOL>. but I know this Is here and you are there.. 

    But if this tenant can get an attorney of that magnitude to work for them.. means they probably had to pay him..  

    In the old days.. we would have just cut off the utls. taken the water meter out and removed the power supply and the front door.. that usually got them out..  

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    I suspect at least in this case the lawyer representing the tenants would have a field day with your master lease after the fact.

    but if you set up the master lease before you move a tenant in on a sub lease maybe that works but it does preclude the other party to due notice and their day in court.

    this is the same as HML having borrowers sign DIL's at the inception of the loan.. that's not legal but done all the time and some that default just walk away but if anyone raised the issue the court would over turn the dil in heart beat.

     I get what your saying. But I own legally own this house and could legally sign a lease with anyone that would be willing to sign a contract with me. I have no lease or obligation to the hold over tenants that came with the house. As far as I am concerned they are squatters that are trespassing.  They of course have a different opinion. 

    not sure in SC as I don't hold rentals there.. but I have been buying courthouse steps and tax sales going on 40 years now.. and hold over tenants in all of my deals and they number in the 100's have always been subject to eviction laws not trespassing.. and crap out here in liberal land west coast many times even full blown squatters the cops will tell U you have to evict.

    during the GFC in CA untold thousands of people moved into vacant homes and squatted for years.. they knew they could get cash for keys.. I mean some of them moved into mansions.. LOL>. but I know this Is here and you are there.. 

    But if this tenant can get an attorney of that magnitude to work for them.. means they probably had to pay him..  

    In the old days.. we would have just cut off the utls. taken the water meter out and removed the power supply and the front door.. that usually got them out..  

     Wish it were that easy. I will have to do an eviction and want to make sure I have an attorneys blessing before doing anything creative.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    I suspect at least in this case the lawyer representing the tenants would have a field day with your master lease after the fact.

    but if you set up the master lease before you move a tenant in on a sub lease maybe that works but it does preclude the other party to due notice and their day in court.

    this is the same as HML having borrowers sign DIL's at the inception of the loan.. that's not legal but done all the time and some that default just walk away but if anyone raised the issue the court would over turn the dil in heart beat.

     I get what your saying. But I own legally own this house and could legally sign a lease with anyone that would be willing to sign a contract with me. I have no lease or obligation to the hold over tenants that came with the house. As far as I am concerned they are squatters that are trespassing.  They of course have a different opinion. 

    not sure in SC as I don't hold rentals there.. but I have been buying courthouse steps and tax sales going on 40 years now.. and hold over tenants in all of my deals and they number in the 100's have always been subject to eviction laws not trespassing.. and crap out here in liberal land west coast many times even full blown squatters the cops will tell U you have to evict.

    during the GFC in CA untold thousands of people moved into vacant homes and squatted for years.. they knew they could get cash for keys.. I mean some of them moved into mansions.. LOL>. but I know this Is here and you are there.. 

    But if this tenant can get an attorney of that magnitude to work for them.. means they probably had to pay him..  

    In the old days.. we would have just cut off the utls. taken the water meter out and removed the power supply and the front door.. that usually got them out..  

     Wish it were that easy. I will have to do an eviction and want to make sure I have an attorneys blessing before doing anything creative.

     always the best route.. in Oregon there are eviction services its all they do.. its a set fee between 600  to 1k.. you just hand them your paper work or lease if you have it.. or your sherrifs deed..   but Oregon in its great socialistic wisdom just passed state wide rent control :(

  • Kingston, NY · Member since 2017 · 252 posts · 138 votes
    7y

    @John Underwood if he’s an elected official then go to the media. They love this kind of abuse of power crap.

  • Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    I literally just got done with an eviction, 10 minutes ago , after meeting with the police...

    I had some people apply and they cleared the application and the background check and here we are on day 46...eviction... The cops knocked on the door they opened it and then they start taking whatever they can in trash bags and they just walked down the street and then I immediately changed out the lock's and assessed the situation... The only thing inside the entire home was a mattress and a bunch of liquor bottles in the kitchen... At most I will have $300 in the turn over and I get to keep the $1000 deposit and the $1000 rent... I just don't understand people ...46 days ago they passed all the hurdles and gave me $2000 now they're walking down the street with trash bags...wtf

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mark Fries:

    @Jay Hinrichs

    I literally just got done with an eviction, 10 minutes ago , after meeting with the police...

    I had some people apply and they cleared the application and the background check and here we are on day 46...eviction... The cops knocked on the door they opened it and then they start taking whatever they can in trash bags and they just walked down the street and then I immediately changed out the lock's and assessed the situation... The only thing inside the entire home was a mattress and a bunch of liquor bottles in the kitchen... At most I will have $300 in the turn over and I get to keep the $1000 deposit and the $1000 rent... I just don't understand people ...46 days ago they passed all the hurdles and gave me $2000 now they're walking down the street with trash bags...wtf

     well that sounds like a unicorn.. usually the other way around they leave with 2k in damage  LOL.. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mark Fries:

    @Jay Hinrichs

    I literally just got done with an eviction, 10 minutes ago , after meeting with the police...

    I had some people apply and they cleared the application and the background check and here we are on day 46...eviction... The cops knocked on the door they opened it and then they start taking whatever they can in trash bags and they just walked down the street and then I immediately changed out the lock's and assessed the situation... The only thing inside the entire home was a mattress and a bunch of liquor bottles in the kitchen... At most I will have $300 in the turn over and I get to keep the $1000 deposit and the $1000 rent... I just don't understand people ...46 days ago they passed all the hurdles and gave me $2000 now they're walking down the street with trash bags...wtf

    that's also one nice thing about those type of tenants they have basically zero possessions..  I deal in new construction mainly and my target are tear down hoarder houses that someone has lived in for 10 to 40 years..  last one I did in Lake Oswego cost me 65k to take everything to the dump and demo the little house.. over 250,000 lbs of crap.. or prized possessions which ever you  slant you take.

    this one had 18 dead casts in it..  a live boa  that scared the bejesus out of the first people that went into it.. you needed respirator.. 

    That's why I always chuckle about those who post about mold in their house inspections.. like little dot of mold  they freak out.. these people live in a literal petri dish most of their lives.. and the other telling factor is when the living room furniture is on the porch.. then you know it stinks pretty bad inside..   but hey I just look at it as money.. and in our market those houses still bring 250 to 500k.. LOL 

  • Contractor · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    It is amazing and to tell you the truth I will probably profit off of this situation....$2000 minus $300 turnover costs minus eviction fees... It's only been 46 days since they moved in/out and I will have the home back on the market by mid next week...another $1000 rent and $1000 deposit....

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    7y

    Even if you draw up a lease, there is three major problems:

    1. The tenant is not real and never takes possession

    2. The tenant is you and there is no logical reason to evict yourself

    3. The tenant was creased solely for the purpose of denying the person occupying the property their court date. 

    The judge will not be impressed and could punish you for your attempts to deceive. 

    Also note that in an eviction, you post notice on the door at the same time that you serve occupants, if you believe there are other unnamed occupants. Think about it logically, if you never post notice at the property, how would unnamed occupants ever get notified?

    To pull this off, you will probably need to commit perjury or at a minimum lie by omission. Seems too risky for me.

  • Investor · Broward County, FL · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 938 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Steve Hall:

    @John Underwood 

    How can you evict someone who never had a contractually obligation to pay you? They're not your tenant. This sounds like trespassing to me.

    In Florida, we have a law where I can have you served for trespassing, and the sheriff will escort you from the premises and arrest you on site if they catch you violating it. The person served cannot contest the Trespass Warning, and it is valid for life!


    In FL if someone shows sign that he has been living there (duration, receiving mail, having property on site), they can't be trespassed. If they don't pay a rent, you can do an ejectment that is supposed to be a little bit faster than an eviction. But without a court order or if they refused to leave on their own free will, you can't force them to be removed.

    It is a civil matter, and a FL law enforcement officer who would take any action to illegally remove the person from the property risk to loose not only his job and his pension, but may also be faced with severe lawsuits...

    The only recent change in the law that I am aware of was for transient resident (like a friend staying for a few days and who refuses to leave) where you can sign an affidavit that will let the law enforcement officer remove them. But it is still a gray area with not a lot of case law and the difference between a transient and a bona fide resident is blurry.

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    In the old days.. we would have just cut off the utls. taken the water meter out and removed the power supply and the front door.. that usually got them out.. 

    Wait. You don’t do that? I “knew a guy” that would put a blank key in the door lock and with a hammer, snap off the head so the key was stuck in there.

    Or pull breakers out of the service panel.

    But nothing beats a contractual lien. Viva Texas. If anyone wants some TVs and other items I have piles of ‘em ;)

  • Midland, NC · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 41 votes
    7y

    a guy a few miles down the road from me removed the front and back doors of his rental to get thr people out. It worked pretty quick! Dont know if that is legal but nobody saw him do it so no witnesses. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Self help evictions will most likely lead to more troubles so avoid them.

    I'm not understanding why the residents won't leave? Has someone talked to them and said "You're in my property and I don't want you here. Please leave because I don't want to evict you and you don't want to be evicted."

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @John Teachout:

    Self help evictions will most likely lead to more troubles so avoid them.

    I'm not understanding why the residents won't leave? Has someone talked to them and said "You're in my property and I don't want you here. Please leave because I don't want to evict you and you don't want to be evicted."

     They did own house house at one time and are arguing that they still do. They were foreclosed on for not paying their mortgage. The foreclosure was cancelled once they realized the people had not payed their property taxes and they had lost house when it was sold due to non payment of taxes.

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