Sharing Electrical Dispute Among Tenants - Need Resolution

Sharing Electrical Dispute Among Tenants - Need Resolution

Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes

Good day BiggerPockets landlords. I have an increasingly disruptive problem at a property comprised of a main 2/1 home and a stand-alone studio behind it. Turns out the studio, which is attached to a one-car garage, all runs on the same electrical box. This was not addressed in our original home inspection in October of 2013 nor have we noticed or had any complaints about the problem. A few months ago, a new tenant moved into the studio unit. The garage (which includes a washer/dryer and an exterior light illuminating the backyard of the house) is rented to the tenant in the main home. The studio tenant complained (rightfully so) that the washer/dryer and the exterior light are running off of her electrical system. We immediately said we're so sorry, didn't know and said we'll address it. We've asked for the studio electrical bills and they promised to provide them (after saying they aren't that much) but we've received nothing. So, I've been waiting while trying to estimate the usage on a bulb and a washer/dryer, which the house tenant happily provided me (her type of W/D and bulb). I can't do anything until I have the bills in question on hand and talk to the electric company. I've told the studio tenant I will offer compensation and a plan going forward for compensation. Instead of cooperating, she called code enforcement so now we have a slew of other issues, none having to do with her complaint. Typical stuff they pick on like peeling paint, a missing screen (which tenants remove all the time) and things of that nature that don't affect the tenant's life and they haven't complained about. 

The studio tenant is insisting I make the house tenant stop using her light and W/D. I don't believe I can do that as it's in violation of the house tenant's lease. I'm trying to come up with a fair solution but can't when I don't know what the costs are. The studio tenant has aggravated the situation by calling code enforcement. 

I'm looking for advice/solutions to this problem. The most extreme and expensive would be somehow wiring the W/D and light all the way across the backyard of the house into its electrical box. Is that even doable? Are there other solutions to separate the wiring that are cheaper? My original route was to estimate costs, reimburse going backward and then reduce the studio rent by the estimated usage coming from the house. Again, they won't hand over the bills so this is a no go for now (maybe they will eventually). Also, the studio tenant is generally cantankerous, very rude to the house tenant and us and seems unhappy in the unit. I've offered to let her out of the lease, refund the electric and let us all go our separate ways but she refuses that option.

Any and all ideas/advice are appreciated. Thank you in advance!

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Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y

My advice right now is to thoroughly document all your attempts to get the issue resolved. Save any communication you have.

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  • Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Kristen Watts not an electrician but you should be able to put a pony box and separate the circuits for the main house and the get an electrical monitoring device for your pony box. Biggest energy user is the dryer at 2.7 KW per use. Washing machine .25KW and light bulb @ 60 watt 1.4 KW for 24 hours on. Using 3 times per week laundry = 9KW*4= 36KW. 1.4KW*30days = 29 KW.  65 KW per month @ 12c per KW= $7.80. It will cost you more to put in monitoring equipment than you can bill to the correct tenant.

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Tim, thank you for taking the time to calculate and relay all of that to me. 

  • Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Kristen Watts your welcome. I was notified by you voting for my post, if you had other questions then you would need to use the @ sign and start typing the name of the person you want. It will populate outside the box with the choices. double click and it will put their name in blue and notify them. 

  • Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    My advice right now is to thoroughly document all your attempts to get the issue resolved. Save any communication you have.

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    7y

    The tenant’s bill isn’t going to help you determine how the washer/dryer and light are using. Determine the “probable costs”, as already done  above, increase that by 50-100% to be safe, credit them maybe $15/mo in arrears and from now on....tell them that’s what it is, you won’t argue about it anymore and can move if they want....but the issue is Resolved, period.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    7y

    @Kristen Watts you could install monitoring circuitry, but realistically that is expensive and the washer dryer probably uses around the same amount each month. I would tell the tenant your estimated usage is $15 and you are willing to offer a rent reduction accordingly. Whatever number you give them, share your math. If they disagree ask them how your numbers are wrong. 

    Getting a copy of the bills would give you some idea of the total, but it wouldn't tell you what the washer/dryer runs. Is there electric heat and air conditioning that the tenant pays? Those will be the bulk of the electric bill if so. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Joe Splitrock thank you!

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Wayne Brooks thank you!

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Andrew Boettcher thank you!

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Tim Herman gotcha!

  • Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2012 · 543 posts · 311 votes
    7y

    @Kristen Watts,  Your real problem is that you have an uncooperative tenant in the Studio.  Your Studio tenant will likely never be satisfied.  The little bit of electricity that the Studio tenant is paying for but that is used by the tenants in the house can be inexpensively handled many ways (see below) -but rest assured that none of them will appeal to a problem tenant.   I believe she will merely find other problems to cause anyhow.   

    My solution would be to get rid of the tenant as soon as possible -especially since she has already called code enforcement.  I'd tell the tenant in the Studio that after careful consideration, the best you can do is to renew your offer to "let her out of the lease, refund the electric and let us all go our separate ways".  Those are words of wisdom that you wrote.    If she declines to move, thank her for bringing the previously unknown problem to your attention, present her a gift card for doing so, but inform her that she must continue to pay for the electric as it is.  From this point on, you and her consider's use of the washer and dryer by those in the house to be part of her cost of renting the studio.   Put your offer to let her out of the lease and repay her past electric bills in writing along with your decision that the alternative remedy is for her to continuing the lease with her paying for the electric as it is, deliver your offer/decision in person and by certified mail return receipt requested.   If she has already called code enforcement 

    In a moment, I'll give some ways to accurately and inexpensively calculate the actual amount of electricity used by the exterior light, washer and dryer.   To my mind, none of them will be worth your time to monitor, record and to bill separate from, or in addition to the rent.   

    Solutions.  For the exterior light, if you do not want to rewire the fixture to the correct panel (which is certainly doable but likely more expensive), you can install a light with a built in Motion Sensor which is either solar powered like this one for $22  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07926JKCP/?coliid=I2SKEP98V85ZDK&colid=3HQES7BW7Z5XP&th=1  (so many to choose from, including lights with solar panels that can be mounted many feet away to get more sun) -or install a battery powered exterior light fixture with a built in motion sensor like "Mr Beams MB360 ($16 for 140 lumens) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002P6EQPW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B002P6EQPW&pd_rd_w=ofdYZ&pf_rd_p=8a8f3917-7900-4ce8-ad90-adf0d53c0985&pd_rd_wg=dTMi2&pf_rd_r=480QCT7XBDYRX6R85RYQ&pd_rd_r=2f29a911-870b-11e9-b9fc-e96a8f51671e , or their more powerful MBN 3000 ($60 for 500 Lumens).    

    The other option is to install outlets and or switches to monitor the amount of electricity being used (waste of your time).   An example would be a energy montioring light switch $50 (the switch reads, records and reports the energy that goes through it),  https://www.amazon.com/GE-Lighting-Compatible-Monitoring-45857GE/dp/B015YJAHY0/ref=sr_1_13?keywords=energy+monitoring+light+switch&qid=1559682709&s=gateway&sr=8-13  but using that switch is more complicated than just installing the switch because you'd need additional devices in order to access the switches info.

    For your washer you could simply plug it into an energy monitor like the "kill a watt" $17,  https://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3EMY2JU2OC543&keywords=energy+monitoring+plug&qid=1559683505&s=gateway&sprefix=energy+monitor%2Caps%2C205&sr=8-4   You'd need a slightly more expensive monitor for a 240 Volt dryer like this $40 https://www.amazon.com/Pass-through-Rail-Volts-energy-meter/dp/B07D43BHSY/ref=sr_1_15?keywords=240+volt+electric+usage+monitor&qid=1559684015&s=gateway&sr=8-15    

    If there is WiFi available at the rental, then use a smart WiFi enabled plug in outlet like Kasa or similar $23 so that you can read and record the electricity being used from anywhere,  https://www.amazon.com/TP-Link-HS110-Monitoring-Required-Assistant/dp/B0178IC5ZY/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=Plug+in+WiFi+Electric+monitor&qid=1559686090&s=gateway&sr=8-4

     But if your dryer is electric you'd need an additional heavy duty monitor for it like this $52 device which allows you to read the energy used.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PP2KNNH/ref=psdc_6291368011_t1_B00MBIRF5W

    So there are lots of ways to do it. There is always another way, and there is always a better way.

    For a point of reference, I run a property in which all circuits are monitored with current transformers (devices that measure the amount of electricity used).  We have a property with 4 residents in the main house and with an exterior Studio, an RV, a Tiny Home and a camper who all use the same washer and dryer.  Between the 8 people on the property, the total electric consumption for washing machine averages $0.59 per month, and electricity for  the electric clothes dryer averages $8.77 per month.  Those averages are over the most recent year. The electric use on those circuits does not vary more than 6% from one year to another.  So under our conditions of fairly heavy use, the washer and dryer total $9.36/mo in electricity   

    If you have an LED lamp in your exterior fixture 13 to 15 watts, then it should be using around $0.30 a month to run during average 8 hour/day periods of darkness, but less than a tenth of that if you use a motion sensor.   (I'm in WA -our electricity costs $0.11/kwh).

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Mr. Davido, wow thank you for all of these options. Much appreciated! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @Kristen Watts your tenant is making a big deal over 15.00 in electricity? Yikes

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Mr Davido wow thank you so much for all of these options.

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Caleb Heimsoth yes. Threatening me with an attorney, been verbally abusive to the other tenant on the property claiming she’s elderly (she’s only 65 that is not elderly) and can’t stand to listen to her dogs barking or people she has over because she’s old. You get the point. My first choice is to get rid of her because you’re all right about the fact that this won’t be the end of her issues. I’ve explained to her daughter, who rents the place for her (I can see why she wanted her to move out), that she’s simply not happy there I think it’s best you find other accommodations where she’s no where near other tenants. The daughter doesn’t want to “start over” finding another place. What I bet she really doesn’t want her mom moving back in!

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Kristen Watts:

    @Caleb Heimsoth yes. Threatening me with an attorney, been verbally abusive to the other tenant on the property claiming she’s elderly (she’s only 65 that is not elderly) and can’t stand to listen to her dogs barking or people she has over because she’s old. You get the point. My first choice is to get rid of her because you’re all right about the fact that this won’t be the end of her issues. I’ve explained to her daughter, who rents the place for her (I can see why she wanted her to move out), that she’s simply not happy there I think it’s best you find other accommodations where she’s no where near other tenants. The daughter doesn’t want to “start over” finding another place. What I bet she really doesn’t want her mom moving back in!

    I’d just ignore stuff like this honestly, but that’s just me. 

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    @Kristen Watts  How much is her actual electrical bill?  Offer to split it 50:50.  The washer and dryer aren't in constant use and half of the time it is her using it.  It is not HER light or HER W/D, it belongs to you.  

    You mentioned the house tenant gave you info on their W/D  electrical bill, I thought the problem was the W/D in the garage is on the studio meter.  Is the W/D shared by both studio and house tenants or just the house? 

    I wouldn't renew her lease as rather than dealing with you, she's caused a lot of unnecessary work over something simple.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    How much time is left on her lease? Non renewal seems like the way to go.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Kristen Watts:

    @Caleb Heimsoth yes. Threatening me with an attorney, been verbally abusive to the other tenant on the property claiming she’s elderly (she’s only 65 that is not elderly) and can’t stand to listen to her dogs barking or people she has over because she’s old. You get the point. My first choice is to get rid of her because you’re all right about the fact that this won’t be the end of her issues. I’ve explained to her daughter, who rents the place for her (I can see why she wanted her to move out), that she’s simply not happy there I think it’s best you find other accommodations where she’s no where near other tenants. The daughter doesn’t want to “start over” finding another place. What I bet she really doesn’t want her mom moving back in!

     If she's being verbally abusive to the other tenant, do you not have a clause in the lease to address this?  It doesn't matter if the daughter doesn't want to find another place for her or move back in with her.  Tell her that she is not happy there and therefore you are offering her an out with the lease and let her know that you won't be renewing it...so she's only prolonging the inevitable.

  • Rental Property Investor · New York City · Member since 2019 · 703 posts · 538 votes
    7y

    How far is the main house to the garage?  An electrician can run 2 new circuits and wiring, one for the washer and one for the dryer off of the electric panel in the main house.  It can be done but depending on the labor (Run the lines overhead?, Run lines underground?, Distance?, Is there room in the current electric panel or do they need to make room?) involved it may not be worth it. I'm guessing that the dryer is electric only and Not gas. 

    Did the main house ever have a washer and dryer..Is there a hookup (or abandoned hookup) in the main house?  I'm saying this because maybe the W/D originally belonged to the garage/studio since they are attached.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Theresa Harris this is a good option thank you!

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Anthony Rosa St Pete has weird properties. It's one of the oldest cities in FL so a laundry with attached studio out back is very common rather than laundry in the main home. That's the situation here but I rent the house with the garage/laundry because they pay significantly more and expect the amenities of a SFH. Renting the studio with a washer dryer and the garage dissuades people from renting the home.

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Max T. I agree thanks!

  • Property Manager · Leominster, MA · Member since 2017 · 53 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    @Kristen Watts we had a similar issue and our best resolution was to have an electrician out and split the electricity. You can put multiple panels so it splits what usages are for what tenant with separate meters. Then if your including or paying for any of the electrical, such as the exteriors or common areas, then you can put those on a seperate landlord panel. We try to do it on all of our houses now. Most of the time the cost isn't outrageous specially when not doing it can lead to this sort of headache.

  • Rental Property Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2011 · 46 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Mike Fontaine that’s a good idea too. Thanks!

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