Getting discouraged. Everything is going wrong at once.
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Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7yLandlording is difficult and getting things off the ground can be extremely tough especially when your buying distressed properties and have a lousy tenant base to pick from .Don’t ask me how I know ( I felt the same as you many times) . I’d first Consolidate those high interest cards into a line of credit or bank/credit union loan with a fixed reasonable rate . Focus only on things that must be done to be habitable and take no tenant requests for upgrades or frivolous stuff waste no money in your personal life that’s not necessary . Get your ducks In a row and persist and push on do as much work as you can without paying people to do it , that means 80+ he work weeks if that’s what it takes . It’s a struggle at times and a fight to be victorious but you must have laser sharp focus and keep plugging away . Never ever ever never give up I don’t care how bleak it looks . There’s a reason 97% of population is not a real estate investor and of those that are in the 3% that are , most all of them have only one rental . We are a rare breed and it can be overwhelming but if you push through you can make it .i will leave you with a quote from Calvin Coolidge -
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
183 Replies
- Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
Whew. Yeah, sucks when that happens. I grew too fast one year. Went from 7 units to 18. The next 2 years I spent $20k a year out of pockets dealing with all the unexpected deferred maint my new properties had. I also had some crap tenants that destroyed the place before they moved out.
First things first, are you keeping your properties rented? Great top line revenue will eventually solve most problems.
Can you just defer some of the work? Why does it have to be done right now?
- Investor · Topeka, KS · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
How long have you owned the 13 doors? Has there been periods where they have done well for you? How much monthly rent do you generate vs how much did you pay for that rent?
- Rental Property Investor · Hawthorne, CA · Member since 2018 · 655 posts · 900 votes7y
@Ryan Rush
Is this your worst case scenario?
Do you have contingency plans in place?
Can you survive this storm?
If you can then just ride it out, there is sun after the clouds.
If it looks like you can’t weather the storm in the current configuration then you need to adopt a contingency plan.
It might not be a complete problem punt but try to figure out the least intrusive way to get yourself stabilized.
Good luck!
- Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes7y
I'd probably be looking around for a personal loan. If the cards aren't zero-interest, they're going to kill you -- we've used zero-interest cards as a means of short-term financing, but never regular cards.
Good luck, Ryan.
- Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes7y
Landlording is difficult and getting things off the ground can be extremely tough especially when your buying distressed properties and have a lousy tenant base to pick from .Don’t ask me how I know ( I felt the same as you many times) . I’d first Consolidate those high interest cards into a line of credit or bank/credit union loan with a fixed reasonable rate . Focus only on things that must be done to be habitable and take no tenant requests for upgrades or frivolous stuff waste no money in your personal life that’s not necessary . Get your ducks In a row and persist and push on do as much work as you can without paying people to do it , that means 80+ he work weeks if that’s what it takes . It’s a struggle at times and a fight to be victorious but you must have laser sharp focus and keep plugging away . Never ever ever never give up I don’t care how bleak it looks . There’s a reason 97% of population is not a real estate investor and of those that are in the 3% that are , most all of them have only one rental . We are a rare breed and it can be overwhelming but if you push through you can make it .i will leave you with a quote from Calvin Coolidge -
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
- Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Have you shopped around for another insurance carrier? This would buy you time on the roofs they are mandating you fix.
@Jacob Sampson gives sound advice. All your efforts should first go to making sure the units are rented to keep your revenue coming in.
When I first got into the business, a veteran landlord told me "everything comes in waves." This comment has been totally validated by my own experience. I will go weeks with radio silence and then all of a sudden 3 service calls within 24 hours, a letter from the City, and tenant giving notice to move.
If all your properties are cash flowing, I would not consider selling them. It sounds like your problem is lack of reserves from growing too quickly. We've all been there. Just rob Peter to pay Paul and prioritize your deployment of time, effort and capital.
For example, for every property I have a maintenance list, and each task I give a rating from 1 to 5 (1 is most critical). I also list all materials and supplies needed to complete the task. Another column is any access to units I need to make the repair. Then, I merge the files for all properties, sort the tasks and start attacking the most important ones first. I make a plan for my week:
Monday - go to HD after work and get supplies for project A
Tuesday - go to Property 1 after work and do project A; if raining, go to Property 2 and do project B
etc...
Here's a sample of my list:
PRIORITY TASK UNIT TOOLS NEEDED CONCERN FALL 2019 install spark igniter 1R 1R 1.5 recoat flat part of roof EX 1.7 insulate/brick over AUX BS windows AUX BS with Eli 2 parge W wall of basement BS with Eli 2.5 brick over front 2 basement windows BS with Eli 3 remove plants on side of garage wall GAR weathering 3 replace 2R pavers EX 3 repair bottom basement door hinge BS security 3 repair water main street valve EX $$$$ water damage 3.5 clean out chimney BS maintenance 4 1" PEX for basement water supply BS maintenance 4 properly cover sewer in auxiliary basement AUX health I haven't completely filled out all the columns, but you get the idea.
Just know if you weather this storm, the seas will calm and give you time to improve your situation and prepare for the next wave. And remember, it can always be worse.
Good luck!
- Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Dennis M.:
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not: nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not: the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
I am of the opinion that everyone who gets anywhere in this business has learned to live by this quote.
- Real Estate Agent · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2019 · 359 posts · 295 votes7y
@Ryan Rush I think we have all been there at least once. Im sure you have heard of the saying "when it rains, it pours." I was in $40k of credit card debt trying to make my dreams work at the age of 21. I was 21, I thought I had screwed myself and my world was over. Only 3 years later Im 24 now and I laugh at how hard I cried and sickeneded myself of anxiety then. I pulled myself out, I was determined, and I made it (to the stage I wanted to be at at this time). Like the gentleman above me quoted, persistence is the key.
- Rental Property Investor · Boone, IA · Member since 2019 · 55 posts · 94 votes7y
@Jacob Sampson. Yes- part of my problem was also terrible tenants that destroyed one of my places. I had literally just replaced all of the carpet and remodeled the entire house and in two in a half months they destroyed everything - including part of the roof (they screwed a piece of sheet metal into a flat porch roof to cover over the spot he was grilling.)
I have no issue keeping them rented. I had just bought another house and remodeled two apartments for AirBnb’s and spent most of my reserves on the down payment and the furnishings. I have been hit with over 30,000$ of costs in 4 months right after that. The first one was a roof that could have been deferred, but I decided just to get it done. Insurance said they would drop me if I didn’t do it and I get a great price from them so I didn’t want to go to another that costs considerably more. Then the emergencies happened- one after another. I still have two emergencies to take care of but no money to do it with. They absolutely can’t be deferred. One is a roof that is severely damaged and another is a flight of stairs to an upstairs apartment that started coming apart.
- Rental Property Investor · Boone, IA · Member since 2019 · 55 posts · 94 votes7y
@Jacob Sampson. The doors have done well for me. Every one has me between 2-3%. I made the choice to just make them nice and livable and to take care of the stuff that the tenant doesn’t care about until it’s broken as I go - instead of getting the loan to take care of all of that up front. I’m regretting that decision as everything seems to be breaking at once. Every time I put more on a credit card it changes that number drastically too, because it increases my monthly costs. The last four months is the first time since 2015 (the year I started) that it has felt out of control and in a downward spiral. I work full time too - so every penny of this goes back into the business. I don’t pay myself out of it. I want to get it to where it sustains my family without me working another job, so I pushed it growing too fast and got myself in trouble.
- Rental Property Investor · Boone, IA · Member since 2019 · 55 posts · 94 votes7y
@Damaso Bautista my contingency plan is to pull the equity out of a house I have that’s free and clear, but I would want to roof it first- which is a problem right now. I can always sell some, but that doesn’t feel right. I feel like I’ve been riding the storm out quite a while. I also feel like it’s getting harder to keep holding on, but I’m determined to do so. At the same time though- I don’t want to adversely affect my family by getting in too much of a rut.
- Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes7y
Get on YouTube learn to do everything yourself . Work overtime at your w2 job or pickup an extra one . Do whatever it takes . If it was easy everybody would be a RE investor .look Your just getting started and The first two years is the hardest of any business in fact many of the great entrepreneurs never made a dime for the first several years but we never hear about that part when we read about their success Today
- Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
@Ryan Rush Okay, another tenet to landlording: only make each mistake once.
Let's look at each issue and break it down.
(1) Tenant Damage: Screen screen screen! 80% of your problems can be avoided by screening tenants. You can pay a service, but ALSO DO IT YOURSELF. Stalk them on social media, call employers, previous landlords (not current), follow up every lead, and zealously chase trails of smoke to see if there is fire.
(2) Insurance: This is water under the bridge, but I'll bet the increase in premium you would suffer switching to a more expensive carrier for 24 months would be MUCH LESS than what you paid for the roof. Think outside the box. This business is about "broken field running" sometimes.
(3) Roof: You can do it yourself and save tons of money. Talk to professionals. Pick their brain. Read reliable articles online. Ask lots of questions. Roofing is hard work, but it is not difficult. Bribe friends for labor with beer and pizza. (Beer doesn't get shared until AFTER everyone is off the roof.)
(4) Stairs: Same thing as above. There are lots of very well written guides on how to build stairs online. I would over-engineer it if it were me. My rental stairs take lots of abuse. Buy a pile of pressure treated lumber and go to town. Use carriage bolts and washers rather than lag screws. Use deck screws on the treads, not nails - so they can be replaced easily and will be held fast longer. Think long term. Make them outlive you.
(4a) You can also REPAIR the stairs to buy you some time. Buy a PT stringer or two and sister them. One of the problems I have is that people don't pre-drill and when they fasten the steps to the stringer, it splits the stringer. I cut a PT 2X6 10 inches long with a 22.5deg angle on the longest side. (One end looks like a trapezoid and the other a rectangle.) I screw this on the inside of the stringer, flush with the bottom of the tread. The angled piece goes forward, so people have clearance for their toes as they climb the steps. These pieces support the splitting stringer and gives me "fresh meat" to screw down the treads. Use 3" screws - they will go through both pieces completely and not stick out and make a sharp point. Anyways, you get the point...
If you have a W2 job that precludes this - do it on the weekends/holidays or take a personal day when you have your ducks in a row and the weather is cooperating. The "cost" of your personal day is way cheaper than the cost of hiring this out. And then there's the emotional weight you have just lifted.
If you can't do any of this stuff yourself, other ideas for funding:
(a) personal loan from your credit union
(b) HELOC
(c) cash advance of credit cards
(d) personal loan from family/friend
(e) payment plan with contractor
It's not really that bad. Prioritize and make a plan.
I'm also giving @Jim K. an up vote, not necessarily for his advice (which was good), but because @Account Closed called him a "gentleman" - now I've seen it all!! ;)
- Rental Property Investor · Hawthorne, CA · Member since 2018 · 655 posts · 900 votes7y
@Ryan Rush
Hey Ryan I can hear the fear and doubt in your post.
Many have replied very good encouraging things and I agree with the sentiment of the posts.
Keep your head up and fight hard. Figure out how to make it through this situation without throwing in the towel.
Do what you need to do to stabilize your portfolio and the keep moving.
There is no magic answer and no magic pill.
Keep working the problem until it’s stabilized.
- Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes7y
I did a double-take myself!
@Account Closed
Thank you for the compliment, because I typically get called all sorts of other things than "gentleman" in my capacity as a C/D-class low-income landlord.
Have you taken a look at the 0% balance-transfer cards that are out there? Some of them charge an up-front 3% balance transfer fee but it'll buy you 18 more months. But I'd still definitely go with a personal loan now in your situation -- you're at zero savings and playing with fire if you screw around with the cards. All the zero-percent card credit available in today's environment is a lot like a drug to get you deeper and deeper until there's no way out. Pay off the existing cards in a hurry, pay for your property needs, pay the balance off the personal loan well within the loan term, go hard on building your war chest for the next time it all goes to crap. Because it WILL all go to crap again. You sound like you've figured that out now.
Let the dudes that post about acquiring their first 300 doors in 30 days with their private parts stretched out on Murphy's chopping block do their thing. They're always here today and gone tomorrow -- the more time you spend on this site the more obvious it is. You do your thing, build your rental empire one inexorable step after another, don't let anyone take it away from you.
If Wesley's quick explanation of how to build porch stairs for peanuts out of pressure-treated lumber seems a bit abbreviated, I think there's an episode of Ask This Old House that lays out the exact toe-clearance cut technique he mentions, very well done.
- Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes7y
@Ryan Rush I would do what everyone has suggested, especially @Dennis M. And @Jim K.
Only thing I’d suggest is don’t spend your reserves on buying more property, that I think was problem number 1 right there. Set aside a specific amount (per door, or total etc) and don’t touch it.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
based on what you just said IE you have a free and clear prop.. I would sell that and recapitalize.. if your buying 2 to 4% rule means your buying low value assets in high touch tough to manage tenant base..
your example of tenant to who trashed your unit is a reality no matter how well you screen..
the money is made with those assets with little to no debt.. pay cash for one get it going when you have the cash pay cash for another and build your house that way.. using max debt is very risky in my mind for that asset class that age of units and in areas prone to wind and hail damage etc..
this is a business just like any other small business the number one way those business 's fail is lack of reserve capital .
When you own them free and clear or drastically limit your debt you can ride these unfortunate events and not get stressed out.. remember its a LONG game and for every home you have paid for that's worth 2 or 3 with max debt.
- Rental Property Investor · Boone, IA · Member since 2019 · 55 posts · 94 votes7y
@Wesley W. I’ve spent over 30 years of my life doing construction and remodel work for a job and on the side. I owned a roofing company at one time. The knowledge on how to do the work is not my issue. I do tons of the work myself. The problem doing a roof on my own is a knee that is blown out and a bad back from abuse. I also have a full time job (salary so working overtime doesn’t help) and a family of 5 that needs me too. I already am working 60-80 hours a week. I can’t sustain that without sacrificing health or family- which isn’t worth wealth.
- Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes7y
Do you know what is way better than having 13 doors and not being able to sleep at night? Having 12 and being able to relax again. Sometimes taking a step back lets you take a few steps forward. If you're going to continue to be under pressure mentally and financially you will never be able to get to 14 but if you go to 12 and go back to having no consumer debt, 14 is easy.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Ryan Rush:
@Wesley W. I’ve spent over 30 years of my life doing construction and remodel work for a job and on the side. I owned a roofing company at one time. The knowledge on how to do the work is not my issue. I do tons of the work myself. The problem doing a roof on my own is a knee that is blown out and a bad back from abuse. I also have a full time job (salary so working overtime doesn’t help) and a family of 5 that needs me too. I already am working 60-80 hours a week. I can’t sustain that without sacrificing health or family- which isn’t worth wealth.
Recommending owners of rentals to DIY roofing is a great way to lead to some very tragic events.. as your probably well aware..
- Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Ryan Rush:
@Wesley W. I’ve spent over 30 years of my life doing construction and remodel work for a job and on the side. I owned a roofing company at one time. The knowledge on how to do the work is not my issue. I do tons of the work myself. The problem doing a roof on my own is a knee that is blown out and a bad back from abuse. I also have a full time job (salary so working overtime doesn’t help) and a family of 5 that needs me too. I already am working 60-80 hours a week. I can’t sustain that without sacrificing health or family- which isn’t worth wealth.
Recommending owners of rentals to DIY roofing is a great way to lead to some very tragic events.. as your probably well aware..
If you have the skill set, it's really no different than hiring someone else with the same skill set - except you are paying yourself. It's not a deductible expense, but the OP is in dire financial straits so I think the juice is worth the squeeze in this case.
- 7yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Originally posted by @Wesley W.:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Ryan Rush:
@Wesley W. I’ve spent over 30 years of my life doing construction and remodel work for a job and on the side. I owned a roofing company at one time. The knowledge on how to do the work is not my issue. I do tons of the work myself. The problem doing a roof on my own is a knee that is blown out and a bad back from abuse. I also have a full time job (salary so working overtime doesn’t help) and a family of 5 that needs me too. I already am working 60-80 hours a week. I can’t sustain that without sacrificing health or family- which isn’t worth wealth.
Recommending owners of rentals to DIY roofing is a great way to lead to some very tragic events.. as your probably well aware..
If you have the skill set, it's really no different than hiring someone else with the same skill set - except you are paying yourself. It's not a deductible expense, but the OP is in dire financial straits so I think the juice is worth the squeeze in this case.
That's a big IF.. I personally know of 4 folks who have died falling off roofs .. If your a trained roofer I get that.. but most are not.
- Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Wesley W.:
Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
Originally posted by @Ryan Rush:
@Wesley W. I’ve spent over 30 years of my life doing construction and remodel work for a job and on the side. I owned a roofing company at one time. The knowledge on how to do the work is not my issue. I do tons of the work myself. The problem doing a roof on my own is a knee that is blown out and a bad back from abuse. I also have a full time job (salary so working overtime doesn’t help) and a family of 5 that needs me too. I already am working 60-80 hours a week. I can’t sustain that without sacrificing health or family- which isn’t worth wealth.
Recommending owners of rentals to DIY roofing is a great way to lead to some very tragic events.. as your probably well aware..
If you have the skill set, it's really no different than hiring someone else with the same skill set - except you are paying yourself. It's not a deductible expense, but the OP is in dire financial straits so I think the juice is worth the squeeze in this case.
That's a big IF.. I personally know of 4 folks who have died falling off roofs .. If your a trained roofer I get that.. but most are not.
All my properties have flat roofs. ;)
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