Rental Property Investor · Delray Beach, FL · Member since 2014 · 224 posts · 169 votes
A couple applied to rent one of my houses (note: this is through an independent leasing services and I have not met or spoken to the applicants myself). They sent a long intro letter saying the boyfriend was convicted of a felony in 2014 for possession of a firearm. Their story was along the lines of: "He wielded a firearm to defend his elderly relative from an abusive uncle but never actually used it."
I'm conflicted because it was non-violent (shades of gray at worst), 5 years ago already, and they're assuring me his record is clean since (I have not run their background check yet since I wasn't going to make them pay for that unless I thought I'd actually rent to them). However, it feels like a lot of work to vette them and I'm probably going to require a larger deposit regardless.
Where do you stand on renting to a felon like this? Is it worth vetting further (pulling court records and/or police reports?) or hard no?
I mostly manage class C rentals, and I LOVE a subgroup of felons who are "aged-out" of the delinquent nonsense and have proven themselves as reformed. IE they have a solid job and appreciate it, connections to family and a support system, and have clearly separated themselves from that previous life. And sometimes it takes 10 years locked up to reach that point.
Why do I like this? Because since they are felons, they have a very hard time finding housing, which means my turnover/vacancy is kept to a minimum.
Also to note, I don't care about the background story. The judge/jury heard that and found it not-convincing. If they are feeding you an excuse story they likely haven't accepted responsibility for their actions and likelihood for re-occurrence of bad decision making is high. My solid felon-applicants state up-front their history (I'm not just discovering it through background checks) with no excuses but rather try to bolster their applications with all of the positives of their current situation.
It depends on neighborhood and tenant pool. If your property is in a C or especially D neighborhood expect to see more “interesting” applicants to put it politely. If property has been vacant for a while and they have good income and credit score I personally would consider them. If it’s in a B class neighborhood and you have more applicants I would pass.
If you are thinking of renting to him, be sure and check the court records to verify his story. Some people get quite creative with trying to cover up their background or to minimize their crimes.
Avoid personality disordered tenants; their reasoning is driven by their disorder so they are difficult to reason and negotiate with. It is estimated that 5-15% of the general US population have a diagnosable personality disorder; for incarcerated the prisoners, the numbers I've seen have are north of 65%. I would insist on having the honestrenter.com test completed and I would only consider it along with a strong job history and good employer references
I mostly manage class C rentals, and I LOVE a subgroup of felons who are "aged-out" of the delinquent nonsense and have proven themselves as reformed. IE they have a solid job and appreciate it, connections to family and a support system, and have clearly separated themselves from that previous life. And sometimes it takes 10 years locked up to reach that point.
Why do I like this? Because since they are felons, they have a very hard time finding housing, which means my turnover/vacancy is kept to a minimum.
Also to note, I don't care about the background story. The judge/jury heard that and found it not-convincing. If they are feeding you an excuse story they likely haven't accepted responsibility for their actions and likelihood for re-occurrence of bad decision making is high. My solid felon-applicants state up-front their history (I'm not just discovering it through background checks) with no excuses but rather try to bolster their applications with all of the positives of their current situation.
A couple applied to rent one of my houses (note: this is through an independent leasing services and I have not met or spoken to the applicants myself). They sent a long intro letter saying the boyfriend was convicted of a felony in 2014 for possession of a firearm. Their story was along the lines of: "He wielded a firearm to defend his elderly relative from an abusive uncle but never actually used it."
I'm conflicted because it was non-violent (shades of gray at worst), 5 years ago already, and they're assuring me his record is clean since (I have not run their background check yet since I wasn't going to make them pay for that unless I thought I'd actually rent to them). However, it feels like a lot of work to vette them and I'm probably going to require a larger deposit regardless.
Where do you stand on renting to a felon like this? Is it worth vetting further (pulling court records and/or police reports?) or hard no?
I would ask for more information about 'possession of a firearm" . Was he an already convicted felon in possession of a firearm? Was he in possession of a firearm while committing a violent crime?
There is a part of this that is missing as one can generally possess a firearm, so what is the missing part that made this a felony? That would add to the decision about renting to him.
At least he did not say he was wearing a friend's jacket and, wow, a gun was in the pocket!
@Jason L. As @Lynnette E. said, you’re not getting the full story from these applicants. “Possession of a firearm” by itself isn’t usually even a crime, much less a felony, unless there’s some aggravating factors, like he was already a convicted felon or it was a stolen firearm or he used it in the commission of another crime. The point is, you either need to dig deeper, or just move on and find a more qualified applicant.
Depends on the circumstances. I might have told this story on here before, but...
A few years ago we fixed up a tidy little bungalow and were looking at tenants. One guy...let's call him Marvin, because that was not his name...had done time for manslaughter, and had been out for about nine years since.
Before that, and after, he was spotless: credit, work history, references, everything. Plus, we liked him, and he had an explanation: the guy needed killing. Marvin was by far the best applicant, and we were going to give him the place, but he turned us down and went elsewhere.
The funny part is, the next two tenants we rented to, destroyed the house, and were by far the worst tenants we've ever experienced in any of our properties. Not sure how they slipped through the screening process, but they did. We've looked back many times, and wished we could have gotten Murdering Marvin.
In short, I'd say that there might be situations where the guy with the felony is your very best applicant, and you should rent to him.
@Matthew Olszak hi my name is Antonio Simmons and I’ve been visiting on BP for some time now and I’m a wholesale investor just starting out in South Carolina and I’m also a convicted felon. I’m not in search for a home or anything like that ( except to flip) but I really appreciated your response and I would like to know if you could mentor me because so many people run as soon as they hear the word( convicted ) it automatically restrict an individual from living there life to the fullest and still achieving their goal. And someone like yourself would be of much needed help.I would like to contact you if possible but if there’s (any info )you can help me with, on jumping out I would greatly appreciate it Thank You
@Jason L. Do not give any applicant a second thought until they actually apply and you have all of the required docs to review. They are trying to take the risk out of things for them by writing the letter.
@Jason L. Do not give any applicant a second thought until they actually apply and you have all of the required docs to review. They are trying to take the risk out of things for them by writing the letter.
In fairness, they're not. They toured the house yesterday and then told my leasing guy about their situation before running background on them. I use Cozy for applications and background checks so they have to spend $40/each to apply. They wanted to make sure I would even consider them before paying that. I think that's completely understandable, as I don't see the need to waste both their money and their time (my leasing guy recently brought a paid applicant to me with an unsatisfactory credit report, who I auto-denied after they paid for the application. I told the leaser not to waste people's money like that since I was obviously never going to accept their application). If I decided to move forward with them, then they would absolutely be required to apply, background check, provide the court docs, etc. before I would approve.
A couple applied to rent one of my houses (note: this is through an independent leasing services and I have not met or spoken to the applicants myself). They sent a long intro letter saying the boyfriend was convicted of a felony in 2014 for possession of a firearm. Their story was along the lines of: "He wielded a firearm to defend his elderly relative from an abusive uncle but never actually used it."
I'm conflicted because it was non-violent (shades of gray at worst), 5 years ago already, and they're assuring me his record is clean since (I have not run their background check yet since I wasn't going to make them pay for that unless I thought I'd actually rent to them). However, it feels like a lot of work to vette them and I'm probably going to require a larger deposit regardless.
Where do you stand on renting to a felon like this? Is it worth vetting further (pulling court records and/or police reports?) or hard no?
I would ask for more information about 'possession of a firearm" . Was he an already convicted felon in possession of a firearm? Was he in possession of a firearm while committing a violent crime?
There is a part of this that is missing as one can generally possess a firearm, so what is the missing part that made this a felony? That would add to the decision about renting to him.
At least he did not say he was wearing a friend's jacket and, wow, a gun was in the pocket!
The story I got from their email was that applicant was caring for an elderly relative who was being verbally abused by an uncle. Their story is that he used the gun to intimidate the uncle into backing off the elderly relative. I agree that there's more to this story than they're telling me, but they seem to suggest this was not a violent crime. But who knows?
At this point, I'm leaning towards rejecting the application because of the ambiguity and the fact that the listing has been getting other leads. In some other instances, I think I might be willing to vet them further. However, it seems like a lot of leg work to confirm their story with the court records when the house has been getting other leads that are assuredly less "complicated".
Possession of a firearm or pointing a firearm by itself does not turn someone into a felon.
There is more to this story and I would find out what it is.
Yes I would consider renting to them once I knew the whole story.
Also I believe some laws have changed not long ago and you can't discriminate against certain types of ex-cons.
The story I got from their email was that applicant was caring for an elderly relative who was being verbally abused by an uncle. Their story is that he used the gun to intimidate the uncle into backing off the elderly relative. I agree that there's more to this story than they're telling me, but they seem to suggest this was not a violent crime. But who knows? The fact that the story is so vague makes me think it's probably not worth all the work I'd have to do confirming the story enough to feel good about renting to them.
I mostly manage class C rentals, and I LOVE a subgroup of felons who are "aged-out" of the delinquent nonsense and have proven themselves as reformed. IE they have a solid job and appreciate it, connections to family and a support system, and have clearly separated themselves from that previous life. And sometimes it takes 10 years locked up to reach that point.
Why do I like this? Because since they are felons, they have a very hard time finding housing, which means my turnover/vacancy is kept to a minimum.
Also to note, I don't care about the background story. The judge/jury heard that and found it not-convincing. If they are feeding you an excuse story they likely haven't accepted responsibility for their actions and likelihood for re-occurrence of bad decision making is high. My solid felon-applicants state up-front their history (I'm not just discovering it through background checks) with no excuses but rather try to bolster their applications with all of the positives of their current situation.
There have been some good responses to my post, but I think your latter point was the one that made me think the most. You're totally right that their story felt more like "he was a victim, this was BS" than it did "he made a mistake and he's worked very hard to move past it". I honestly think somewhere in their story is the latter, but when I re-read the email they sent me I'm seeing a lot more of the former. Not the best first impression.
Make an appointment with him and then trust your guts... I would probally rent to him... if I get the impression he is honest to me... and no other tenants are interested in the property... i would collect like 3-4 month as collateral... everybody deserves a second chance... and sometimes ppl get convicted for no reason at all...
I believe there is people that get caught by the law and there is some that get lucky. If the couple has jobs with good references, all that matters is them being able to pay you. That’s just the way I see it. I have had tenants that have no criminal backgrounds but their work ethic sucked which affected the rent being paid on time.. but that’s just how I see things.
@Jason L. Maybe, but be careful. I have a property across the street from a sex offender and I told my sister, a probation officer, what he served time for which was indecency with minor or some such and she said what he did was likely worse but he plead it down. Old thread but still trending. Do ex-cons have parol officers? For a reference.
This is a great discussion so I just want to put in my 2 cents...we're all human and nobody's perfect. Whether young or old I'm pretty sure everyone has done something illegal at least one time in their life. And like the previous comment, some get caught and some don't. Some people have perfectly understandable reason's for doing what they did and some people are just plain evil, but you need to find this out. Just because someone has a felony don't count them out completely, listen to their story, find out their reasoning, definitely look at their employment history since then. They're are a lot of good people out there that make mistakes in life and do change their ways. Sometimes it just takes a conviction to change them. How do I know this? Because I used to be that person. But ask any landlord I've ever had and they'll give you nothing but good reviews about me. Just a thought
Sometimes it is not absolute. People who have criminal background doesn’t mean they will break lease and sometimes people without criminal background may ruin your property. Criminal background can not be the definite deciding factor when choosing tenants, although it really has reference significance.
I can appreciate the OP. On the one hand, you want to give a person a shot because once they have served time, they are supposed to be capable of voting, finding a job, finding a place to live and such - but it's twice or three times as hard as it would have been. On the other hand, let's face it, a lot of prisoners just learn more about how to be a criminal in prison.
I don't know. Watch The Shawshank Redemption and see what your gut tells you. :)
@Jason L. I would say no for me personally. I wouldn’t want to take the chance when I can find plenty of people that are probably more trustworthy and just waiting for something to happen.