NON PROFIT HOUSING WITH REVENUES

NON PROFIT HOUSING WITH REVENUES

Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes

This is an open discussion about non-profits providing or facilitating special needs or specialty housing, yet doing so profitably for those who operate the housing services. This has basically arisen out of another thread.

I'd like to know who is doing N/P housing, what is the niche filled by the service and how are you structured.....tell all you can.

Anyone interested, jump in!

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Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
14y

Bill Gulley hit it on the head with this.

Most of you here know that I prefer not to talk much about my holdings. What people don't know you have they can't go after. I'm involved in several nonprofits. I am both employed by several as well as have arrangements with them.

You have a lot of flexibility on your arrangements.

Donations to nonprofits work out very very well.

If you donate a property and receive a rather large deduction. This is helpful if it is a property that could take a very long time to sell.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Hiroko Yoshi,

    Yes, any regular entity or non-profit entity should be formed before any purchase is made to keep a clear record of where the property is recorded to.

    Bill Gulley.

    You are right it certainly is a grey area. One that should definitely be avoided. It is best to avoid having both on the board and then maybe you can pay both.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    Agreed.....I'd rather not have checks going to the spouse of a memer of the board of directors! If the wife cleans the units and is paid 50 bucks a unit, then fine, be able to prove the work and pay, but I don't get near cutting checks for dependants of a BoD member that has to be defended as to usual and customary, IMO, that is an audit red flag, seeing family getting paid out of a N/P. Best is not to have them as BoD members, just keep them away from any perception of "self dealing". That's how most politicians do it (LOL).

    I recall doing bank audits and getting a big grin on my face when I found bank funds going to any relative of any Officers or Directors, most turned out to be justified, but it still got me salivating when found them! It's a mind set, LOL

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Bill Gulley,

    What I was saying is that if the husband and wife were founding members and providing services and one of them served on the board it would not be the end of the world. Honestly it is best to have them not serve on the board at all. That is my preference.

    -Steven

  • Accountant · Draper, UT · Member since 2012 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    13y

    I appreciate your advice. It is always good to see how other people do it. As to the mission of the NP, i'll quote the articles for you. The purpose is to "provide low income and homeless persons, potentially homeless persons, or otherwise disadvantaged, poor and distressed persons with housing facilities and educational and supportive facilities."

    The attorney we used did 90% of the setup and IRS application. He did an excellent job of disclosing everything and I guess I'm the type that feels as long as we follow the tax code and law, I'm not worried about audit red flags. Certainly, if the audit red flag provides little to no benefit to the client then I will avoid it. But in this case, my clients NP will provide a great retirement option when he decides to slow down. In addition, it will be a great opportunity for his children to learn good work ethic and the importance of charity as they grow older. My client 5 years ago was homeless himself. Now, after he sells his company next year, he will be a liquid cash multi-millionaire. It's an amazing story and he wants to help others the way he was helped when he needed it.

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    John Briggs,

    Love to see CPAs here. I'm working on becoming one. I'm an Enrolled Agent. Which gets me great respect when I represent clients in audit.

    I am very much the same way. As long as I disclose and can back up my position I have no problem. I just don't want to be the one who looks like they did something wrong so I take very good notes and prefer to disclose them.

    That sounds like a great cause. Providing housing is a definite non-profit cause.

    -Steven

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    John.....love it! Ben there, I know where you are....fantastic.

    Now, you might consider getting into some grant writing, btw, a good grant writer can pull in some serious money!

    A good working relationship with all of your social support entities is important, it's often better to partner than compete.

    LOL, I saw Pleasant Grove, my mind computed Pleasant Hope and Fairgrove at the same time, then I realized you're in Utah....

    Keep us posted on the progress, don't forget the golden parachute!

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    As Bill Gulley said... The Golden parachute is important. :D

  • Real Estate Investor · Roanoke, VA · Member since 2011 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    13y

    I have joined this post because I am interested in offering housing for the special needs population, but I don't know how to find out what my current market is offering as far as what rents are going for. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Do you have to get special zoning permits?

  • Accountant · Draper, UT · Member since 2012 · 24 posts · 5 votes
    13y

    @Pam Shifflette,

    I'm not sure this well help, but I was just ready @Dave Van Horn's blog yesterday and he had a previous post that spoke about a rental he did for recovering addicts. Based on what his post said, I am assuming (and I know what it means to assume but I'm doing it anyway :)) that special needs would be considered disabled making them a protected class. If that is true, then I don't think zoning would be an issue.

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/2872/blog_posts/24535-my-most-rewarding-rental

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    I understand the thought, but zoning is an issue, if you are exceeding the number of unrelated individuals to reside in a single family residence. The Americans with Disibilities Act, among other things and Fair Housing apply to individuals and access, it doesn't grant any special privelage to evade or avoid other legal requirements, such as zoning ordinances.

    Exceptions are generally granted for group homes so long as neighbors do not get up in arms. When converting a SFD the zoning folks will usually want to see the plans a specs, exterior elevations. Often if you drive by a group home it may have a privacy fencey, very small signage if any at all, maybe a larger driveway and a ramp, small details that really don't stand out from other properties in the area, that keeps neighbors from feeling like there is a nursing home in the neighborhood. It's all local!

  • Commercial Real Estate Lender / Syndicator · Dallas, TX · Member since 2011 · 888 posts · 309 votes
    13y

    There are plenty of places in DFW and Austin that are displacing low income and seniors. These folks deserve decent housing. I can think of at least two highly distressed multifamily buildings in Dallas that would be a great start. This neighborhood would even welcome the improvements.

    Moving a little further up the socioeconomic chain, some bread and butter neighborhoods around DFW could use a little boost. For example, lower $100k homes in Plano west of I75 (yes the good side, believe it or not) could use a kick-start to help what many would consider the middle-class.

    Non-profits get first dibs on HUD and other homes.

    Numerous development opportunities exist.

    There is enormous potential in this space !!!

    I'd love to start one in Texas but one very important requirement puts it out my reach -- outside start-up funding.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    For funding, again, tag on to an existing N/P, a senior center that is established and well known in the area, there are others that need hosuing for clients as well. If they sign on, you use tier ability to fund, banks provide community reinvestment act funds, there are CDBG funds, grants and conventional loans that can work in combination and provide not only 100% purcahse money but also rehab funds. It's an advanatge of being in the non-profit arena!
    Later on, you can branch out, assist others, it dpends on how you set up the organization and mission statement. :)

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Pearland, TX · Member since 2013 · 163 posts · 32 votes
    13y

    @Bill Gulley. I would really like to learn more about setting this up. We have a shortage of assisted living facilities here in Houston. Last year my mother had an aneurism that after brain surgery left her unable to return home. My sister and I searched everywhere within reasonable distance and they were all full with waiting lists. The only one we found way 1 hour away with shared room cost of just under what her social security check is.

    I would love to be able to make a difference for the other families facing what we did.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    Chuck, sorry the "mention" didn't register, I found this.

    Adult assisted living units are often based on population and zonning, which means it goes before a zonning board who are wined and dined by other AL operators to keep zoning restricted, if not at that point, at the licensing level, politics are always involved.

    Your best path with least resistance is getting with an existing owner operator and partner with them or build for them and arrange a lease. You just don't come off the street and start this business unless you're loaded and politically connected.

    I do hate to rain on parades, but there is a reality. I know because I've been there and done that. So my suggestion will save you alot of time, political aggrevation, money and public horrors. Saty on the RE side and partner with those who are in the business. Good luck.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    Chuck Redman, sorry it didn't make it above.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Pearland, TX · Member since 2013 · 163 posts · 32 votes
    13y

    Bill Gulley That is sort of what I thought. Sorry "mentions" do not seem to work from my Ipad.

    I understand what you mean by the political connection. Maybe a better avenue for the NP would be a lease option assistance organization to help people that can't get traditional financing into a home and work with them through credit repair etc.

    What are your thoughts on this avenue? This thread you started a while back has me interested in finding a way to make this type of arrangement work.

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    There seems to be a "somewhat" popular movement in getting families into rent to own homes in GOOD SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

    See http://stcharles-il.patch.com/blog_posts/lease-options-in-st-charles-il

    This I believe in as a great business model.

    Brian

  • Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Bill Gulley your brain should be harnessed for a Think Tank at the SBA (Small Business Administration)!

    The homeless housing with Govt Assistance see http://www.ehow.com/how_5690669_start-homeless-shelter-government-funds.html

    There are HUD links there.

    Bill, do you ever sleep? lol

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    I've done or been connected with various non-profit housing entites in different capacities, on the board of 2, as the ED of 2, and consulted several others.

    Some questions to address starting out:

    What is the mission? Usually, to provide very low, low and moderate income housing.

    Who is to be served? Anyone who falls in that classification of very low, low or moderate income? The aged? Physically or mentally challeneged, Veterans only? Families only? Single Persons? Who....?

    Why is it needed? What is needed in the community?

    Does anyone else provide similar services?

    What kind of support, adminstrative, financially, governmental and NGO activities are related to the mission or would support the mission?

    Who, in the community would be willing to support the mission with thier time, knowledge, money, labor or skills?

    When you identify these aspects you can then devise a plan to solve problems and achieve the mission.

    Your plan needs to be based upon achieving the mission in the most efficient manner.

    What is the time needed to serve the client to the end goal?
    What funds are needed?
    How are funds raised? Grants, donations, loans, investment.
    Can you work in a calaborative manner with other agencies in order to maximize efficiency of community services?
    How does government play a role?
    What is the role of the private sector?
    What is required of the client to achieve success?

    Answer the above matters and a picture will come in focus.

    As to your suggestion of providing lease-options, that depends on the above information, it could work, but more likely it would not be appropriate, especially for very low income or even low income. Think about the public view of giving an option, how it ties up a property and how quickly it achieves the mission.

    Look at Habitat For Humanity, the client serves with labor hours and then is put in title with restrictive covenants with a zero interest mortgage. HfH is pretty much a standard as to its public acceptance. IMO, the further you get away from the usual and customary, the more difficult it will be to "pitch" your organization.

    I wrote the note for our local HfH affiliate with no interest and did the qualifications on the finance side for clients. The transactions have yielded success due to alot of donated assets. To put this on the private investor side as most might want to do loans at 10 or 12% interest, that won't fly in the N/P community, that does not serve the mission efficiently and would be seen as usury, against the moral law.

    It's not about you, it's about your client. So, you make money from saving money, obtaining grants, donations, support of material suppliers, obtaing low interest loans, $1 properties from the city, donated properties from the public and private sector. Then, you work with what the client can afford, not what they might be willing to pay as in the private sector.

    From that, income-expenss=fund reserves, not net profit and from the reserves you pay adminstrative and organizational expenses to a fund balance.

    Fund balances are put back into mission projects. They might subsidize rents for one family moving through your program, pay for utilities, do repairs in the community, sponsor mission oriented activities, assist a non-profit credit counseling activity or advance the operations of the organization.

    How do you make money? It's a job. If you are the CEO, you may get a salary, retirement account, insurance, bonuses and allowances. Your compensation is based on and must be comensurate with the management skills you provide, what might be customary for a similar for profit operation. The good thing about housing is that it is expensive and your total dollars of business conducted can be huge in a few years.

    A 501 (C) 3 is a corporation, you will need a minimum of 3 board members, always keep it at an odd amount to, 3,5,7,9, I suggest not more than 9 but 5 is more manageable. If you are the executive director, you must lead the board to dicissions. You must convince them to act and support you. Who you initially select to ask to serve comes from that list of "who in the community would support that mission". Choose them very carefully, I would say they can not be related, but a slick attorney might accomplsih alternatives, but IMO, you'd be tied to that attorney to defend matter arising from related issues, best to avoid the situation.

    You must have a CPA, you have a corporation and you will need annual audits by a CPA, not an accountant. There is a good affiliate to have, if they are on the board, they can't do the audit.

    An attorney on the board is great, just remember you need to lead, not a board member.

    A Realtor is a good board member, a financial planner, insurance person, media person and a center of influence in the community is almost a must in a new start up.

    Lastly. while you can adopt almost any strategy RE investors might use, none would be done in the same manner, similar but not so much at the profit motive. A N/P can conduct other business at a "profit" that produces income for the N/P mission, so it's not that profits are not allowed but more in keeping with public perceptions.

    Hope that answered your question, LOL

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Brian Gibbons:
    Bill Gulley your brain should be harnessed for a Think Tank at the SBA (Small Business Administration)!

    The homeless housing with Govt Assistance see http://www.ehow.com/how_5690669_start-homeless-shelter-government-funds.html

    There are HUD links there.

    Bill, do you ever sleep? lol

    Yes, all the time, I do this in my sleep! LOL

    And years ago, been there done that as a volunteer.... :)

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Pearland, TX · Member since 2013 · 163 posts · 32 votes
    13y

    There is a lot to be looked at up front. Thank you for your input. I will start researching what you mention above. This could be worthwhile in the long run if put together properly from the beginning.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    The due diligence is necessary for success, make sure you are familiar with your community n/p organizations and what they do, if you overlap on thier turff you'll have problems not just with them but from the others that support them.....think politically.... :)

  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    @Bill Gulley I just ran across this thread, and I see you're over here showing off your knowledge of all things real estate! Great thread by the way. People have no idea the power and money that NP wield in areas, believing because they are deemed non profit that there's no money to be made through them.

    In the city where I lived there was a non profit that was formed by a lady that left her inheritance to do good for the City. Her attorney headed up the foundation. It is now a very powerful foundation, that controls much of the prime real estate, and has huge influence with the City powers that be. The foundation has started moving away from doing things in the City, and is now investing money in India. Seems strange that they're allowed not to pay taxes in America, only to take those savings and invest in other countries, seems like there should be a stipulation that the NP's have to operate in the U.S.

    Personally I've never been associated with a NP, but at one time we considered forming one and going after redevelopment funds for blighted areas, and building housing etc., but never did.

    It seems that there could be a market for NP's in education, developing schools and leasing back to the state. NP's could do a much more efficient job, but don't get me going on govt. waste in real estate!

    Anyway... it's a good discussion you started. There's so many different opportunities, it's great to see some of the less common discussed.

  • Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    13y

    LOL Karen Margrave, not showing off, lots I don't know, just got bored. :)

    Karen, tell the Red Cross (started here) they shouldn't have the International Red Cross.

    I support public schools, having leased building might be a good idea in some places. We have a grade school that owns street frontage on the city's prime shopping area and it's vacant, the kids don't play there.

    Holding $Ms in land is nothing but speculation by the school system while they ask for more money. They say it's for future expansion.

    The area is fully built, no place for new dwellings so the population of kids can't go up significantly to need a building twice as large as the existing school. But the public doesn't get it. Pure speculation.

    Anyway, N/Ps are very political. When the city supports you, the possibilities are almost endless.

    Linking to other N/Ps is a great way to do many things and get support.

    There can also be RE opportunities as an investor, as a private type, with N/Ps, I think that's covered her to some extent. :)

  • Investor · Cedar Rapids, IA · Member since 2013 · 494 posts · 407 votes
    13y

    I have had pretty good luck renting single family homes to nonprofits that service adults with special needs. Many land lords don't understand the benefits so it's tougher for these institutions to find suitable rental properties. I typically work with the N/P to find a house that meets their needs ie. no steps or near a bus line, then buy the house for them. The N/P is on the lease not the actual clients and I have not had any vacancy since 1/07. Also, rents are paid electronically. You have to love that.

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