Locking out a tenant in Detroit

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Locking out a tenant in Detroit

Cynthia Miller
Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes

I've been having a big problem with tenants in Detroit. They move in and 2nd month don't pay. They know the system and stall court hearings and end up staying in the house free for months. By the time I get them.out the house is destroyed and a filthy mess and the yard looks like a jungle.

Then....here's the kicker, on the way out they steal the furnace and hot water tank. 

I just rented a house and it's the 2md month and the tenants.dont pay and already said they're going to court. 

They have only been there 1 month. They obviously moved in with the intention to not pay after getting in. They broke the porch and security door, haven't cut the grass or cleaned drainage area in front of the house, they have not paid for trash pick up.and when I was in the house last there were multiple bags of trash piled up inside.

I just fixed the house from the last tenants paint, floors  etc. Re pipes the entire house with pex because the last tenants purposely broke the plumbing after being evicted,  I put a brand new furnace and hot water tank in because the last tenants stole it after being evicted.

They were supposed to get internet so the security cameras could be installed said it would be this week but lied. They have someone living in the house who is not on the lease and say he's just " visiting."

Im seriously considering just changing the locks and being done with it. 

Whats the worse they can do? Try to sue me for damages? If they can't pay rent and trash pick up how will they pay an attorney? 

Going the legal route with professional tenants cost thousands of dollars. They'll sit for free then steal the furnace and hot water tank on way out. It's happened twice now. 

If I lock them out, will.the police make me let them back in or can they legally break in or is their only recourse civil court? 

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Anna Sagatelova
Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2019 · 446 posts · 566 votes
6y

Cynthia, you have multiple threads you've initiated where you're basically saying you want to illegally lock your tenants out, you are getting everyone's advice saying not to do that and great information as to why you shouldn't, and you are arguing against it.

You openly admitted you didn't fully screen your tenants by calling past landlords because you assumed they'd lie - what did you think you were getting yourself into?

Sounds like you have been running your rental operation completely upside down - you are on this website that is full of amazing resources and people giving you great advice for free - I hope you take the advice you've been receiving, but truthfully it sounds like you have your mind made up.

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  • John Teachout
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Either way you're going to wind up in court. I would strongly recommend that you not do a "self help" eviction by locking them out...
    And you need to seriously modify your screening process as that's the source of these problems.
    1Reply
  • Brent Paul
    Rental Property Investor · Shakopee, MN · Member since 2015 · 985 posts · 374 votes
    6y

    You definitely do not want to change the locks.  That will get you in trouble with the law and the tenant can probably sue you.

    I think your screening process needs some work.  That is the source of your problems.

    0Reply
  • Matt DeBoth
    Rental Property Investor · Carroll, IA · Member since 2017 · 63 posts · 53 votes
    6y

    @Cynthia Miller most of the time these type of people end up getting free legal aid and will bury you in court costs and attorney fees. If I were you I would do it the right way. Then either invest in a better market or hire a professional property manager that screens tenants better. Sometimes it’s better to cut your costs and move on from lessons learned.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2017 · 57 posts · 44 votes
    6y

    @Cynthia Miller what do your leases say about all of this? Your leases should speak to some of these issues. Maintenance and upkeep should be written in as something that can get you evicted. For damages...You can sue them. If they’ve damaged the property when you do your inventory, keep their security deposit and take them to court for whatever else is outstanding. If they don’t have a lot of income, they’re probably going to be expecting a big tax refund. File the paperwork to garnish is so you can get what is owed to you.

    1Reply
  • Cynthia Miller
    OP
    Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    Thanks for all the input. Anyone from the Detroit area have any input?

    Matt, I looked up the MI law and it says maximum $200 or 3 times the tenants cost. That's IF they follow up in court. 

    The way I look at it If they went to court the most they could get is a few thousand. My furnace and hot water tank it worth that much, so I'm coming out ahead by getting them out before the house is completely trashed and without paying an attorney and them tyiing up the house for months living free

    What I don't see in the law is if the police will force me to let them in. If not and it's a civil matter and they have to go to court I'm thinking it might be cheaper and take my chances. Once they move on they'll forget about it.

    And yes, I'm seriously thinking about getting out of the Detroit market. The tenants are from hell and I've tried property managers and they're worse!

    It's been nothing but a big headache. I'm just afraid as soon as I do I'tll boom and I'll be kicking myself. People are buying up every abandoned house they can right now. 

    0Reply
  • Cynthia Miller
    OP
    Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    Salliece all of what you said is true in a normal city but Detroit, not including a few good pockets, it a whole nother ball game. All the rules change here. There are basically no rules. Everyone runs rampid and no recourse.

    The police won't even come out unless it's a murder so I don't see how they would get involved if I lock them out if it's just a civil matter.

    i went through getting a judgement with the tenants before but you can only get for rent. Then you have to find them....good luck with that, and serve them small claims for any damages to the property.

    Then They gave to be employed and make enough to garnish but most don't make enough to be able to garnish. As for tax refund you can only collect on state refunds if I remember correctly, and most of them get a federal refund or don't file at all so all the cost and time going to small claims is just wasted.

    0Reply
  • John Teachout
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    You've been getting what's known as "professional tenants". They are familiar with and know how to exploit the system and take advantage of landlords to live for free or nearly so.

    Do not think that they won't pursue this in court. They likely know the landlord/tenant laws better than you do. The fact that you've experienced this more than once is proof that your screening process is insufficient. You need to evict them via the legal route and make sure you follow every procedure exactly to the letter of the law. ie, when you post a pay/quit notice, make sure it's delivered by an acceptable method as laid out in state/local regulations. As you go through the process, just keep crossing the T's and dotting the I's. Then once you turn the property, find some decent tenants and move on. Maybe consider section 8?

    2Reply
  • Cynthia Miller
    OP
    Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    John, I'm thinking it might be cheaper to take my chances with the lockout. Mi law states the civil penalty is maximum $200 or 3 times the cost to tenant and I can't remember if the 3 times only applies if.there was physical force. Thats IF they go through.court and follow up.

    So if it cost them $1500 to get into a new place that much cheaper than replacing the furnace, hot water tank,  fixing up the house, paying attorney, and  loss of rent for them living free.

    0Reply
  • Quentin Mitchell
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 105 votes
    6y

    I would definitely go the legal way and Michigan has some of friendlier landlord laws than some other states, so as long as you follow the process correctly it should not take that long. I would try to be there when and if they are still there for the eviction, if not then I might just keep checking on the house to make sure that they haven't left maybe every other day ride by there. 

    I have to agree with other people from this thread Detroit is not the problem the screening process you are using is the problem. I invest primarily in Detroit and have not had those problems that you are experiencing. I actually just had a tenant move out. (her lease was up so no evection or anything bad) and she left the place immaculate. You are going to have to change your process or you will continue to have this problem even if you were not in Detroit. 

    0Reply
  • Cynthia Miller
    OP
    Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    Quentin, what parts of Detroit are you investing in? Would you mind sharing your screening process? 

    0Reply
  • Cynthia Miller
    OP
    Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    I had another local investor tell me recently that he goes in and removes the furnace and hot water tank before they leave when evicting, as in when they're still in the eviction process. Unless your camped out they can have the furnace and hot water tank out in 20 min or less.

    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    Are you checking records for past evictions?  I'd also call their last landlord. They may try to fake it with a friend's number.  Someone else on BP mentioned when you call, use the previous address, but introduce an error.  If it is the real landlord, they should pick up on it.  So instead of 124 Main St, ask if they were a tenant at 154 Main St.  It is similar enough.

    0Reply
  • Cynthia Miller
    OP
    Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    Teressa that's a good idea about the address. I haven't been calling past landlords. I figured they would just give a friend's number, like you said. I do check for past evictions and this particular tenant, I called the company she worked for and verified employment as I've had people give me fake paystub before....

    0Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    What do youhope to accomplish by locking the tenants out? If they are as bad as you say, they will just break a window. So now you have a broken window to pay for too. 

    You really need to work on your screening and your demeanor/personal presentation. Tenants are picking up that they can take advantage of you. 

    Good luck, i hope you go the legal route - doing otherwise just makes you the same as your tenant. 

    0Reply
  • Cynthia Miller
    OP
    Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    I saw an ad recently fot a rental where they said they're is a 2 wk waiting period before you can move in. I guess it's to try to weed out people who may have just gotten evicted or moved with cash for keys etc. I may start that.

    0Reply
  • Bala A.
    Rental Property Investor · Memphis · Member since 2018 · 128 posts · 97 votes
    6y

    You can not just "lock" your tenants out. 

    I am a LL with a large portfolio of Detroit SFR rentals.

    It is not a Civil issue anymore it becomes Criminal intent on your part.

    I can go in-depth on the various scenarios (with experiences picked up over the last 7 years investing on Detroit) but would not wish to as it is a different topic on it's own right.

    Hence, Sorry but just take this experience on the chin and go through this eviction like a Landlord would do.

    For the next tenant, follow a regimented Screening process: 

    1) Check the 36th District court for past evictions & money jugements (LT issue and GC issues), if it is under 3 years avoid the drama and move to the next applicant.

    2) Previous Landlord verification - call and speak to them (run the Landlords name if you have MLS access against the ownership records)

    3) Employment History and Stability - 3 times rental income atleast. 4 times if it is under household share.

    4) Credit Score - a Good indicator but take it subjectively as a Low Credit score is not an automatic refusal. There can be specific cases.

    5) And a couple more Detroit specific "Smart LL" process points...

    2Reply
  • Cynthia Miller
    OP
    Dearborn, MI · Member since 2017 · 72 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    Thanks Bala, I'm doing all but calling the previous landlord and running credit.

    Do you have specific Michigan law you can share with me that makes it criminal? I did a quick search and it said it was civil with a $200 penalty. or maximum 3x the cost to the tenants to relocate.

    Any suggestions on how to protect the brand new furnace and hot water tank I just put in? They WILL steal it and sell it for their next place to get into and get free rent 

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2017 · 57 posts · 44 votes
    6y

    @Cynthia Miller Do you have an attorney you work with? If not, maybe reach out to David Soble from Proven Resource. He should be able to help you navigate this and come out successful.

    0Reply
  • Jabari Long
    Real Estate Broker · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 384 posts · 149 votes
    6y

    @Cynthia Miller I definitely suggest doing things the “right” legal way. You may save money initially but it will be a costly headache in the long run. The courts are very tenant friendly when you’re in the right. I guarantee they’ll try to bury if you go about things the wrong way!

    0Reply
  • Bala A.
    Rental Property Investor · Memphis · Member since 2018 · 128 posts · 97 votes
    6y

    Sure @Cynthia Miller

    Technically the tenants can file a Criminal complaint for being 'locked out of "their" own house' 

    Even if you are the LL, you will be a trespasser as they hold a signed Lease in place. 

    They can involve the Police, and have the right to defend their property.

    I know what you must be thinking - It is MY home. But technically since there is a Lease, they're entitled by law.

    Also the tenants can file for damages as their children fell sick in the cold weather etc, as they could not access the property, etc etc. You know the list of dramas...as this list can go on. 

    One said their Puppy died in the basement 

    (and if I remember right had a claim for 15,000 on one Landlord)

    0Reply
  • Anna Sagatelova
    Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2019 · 446 posts · 566 votes
    6y

    Cynthia, you have multiple threads you've initiated where you're basically saying you want to illegally lock your tenants out, you are getting everyone's advice saying not to do that and great information as to why you shouldn't, and you are arguing against it.

    You openly admitted you didn't fully screen your tenants by calling past landlords because you assumed they'd lie - what did you think you were getting yourself into?

    Sounds like you have been running your rental operation completely upside down - you are on this website that is full of amazing resources and people giving you great advice for free - I hope you take the advice you've been receiving, but truthfully it sounds like you have your mind made up.

    3Reply
  • Quentin Mitchell
    Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 105 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Cynthia Miller:

    Quentin, what parts of Detroit are you investing in? Would you mind sharing your screening process? 

    I invest in the west side of Detroit currently the 48238 48227, 48204 zip 

    As far as screening goes give them some test to see how they handle business a call back, email, text etc and then once you have a candidate figure out their story, why they are moving things that make them tick. Also have them do an application do not accept someone with evictions, ask questions about blemishes on their credit. Check Check Check references like job current or old, check former or current landlord, when you check job email and call to verify. But show patience do not be desperate and be willing to turn away people until you find the almost perfect one because no one is perfect.

    0Reply
  • Isaac A.
    Grosse ile, MI · Member since 2014 · 117 posts · 46 votes
    6y

    Issues like these does not encourage some people to invest in detroit

    1Reply
  • Corby GoadeBusiness Member
    Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Wow. Do you have a property manager? Is anyone doing background checks? I understand there are rough markets out there, but this is a bit much....

    I can't imagine a scenario in which locking them out makes your life better. 

    0Reply
  • John Teachout
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I have to ask that if you are so completely convinced these tenants will steal your furnace and water heater, why would you rent to them in the first place? This situation is a bump in the road, get them evicted and then move on with your newly acquired wisdom and experience.

    1Reply
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