Had house fire. Board up company did work without my permission.
Rental Property Investor · Liberty, MO · Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 1 vote
I'm looking for a little advice. I received a bill for $1000 after a house fire on one of my rental properties. The company says they boarded up my house because the fire department called them after the fire. I never authorized the work. The tenant signed an agreement with the board up company, not me. So I didn't pay them and now they are going to file a mechanics lien on my house!
Is this legal? I didn't hire them because I would have had my handyman board up the house for a fraction of the cost. If I refuse to pay, is it legal for them to pursue me for collections and file a mechanics lien? I almost feel like I'm being bullied into paying them because I'd probably have to hire an attorney to fight this and it would end up costing more... Any thoughts?
Thank you!
I'm sorry you had a fire at your property. I hope everyone is OK. I know this is a difficult process to go through.
I'm an investor, flip fire-damaged properties and own a restoration company that specializes in emergency services/boardup. Before that I have spent over two decades in emergency services including a number of years with the Fire Department.
If you look closely at your homeowners policy you will discover that the policy puts responsibility on the homeowner for securing the house and preventing further damage--emergency board up, roof cover, structural stabilization, etc. It is imperative to get this done right away. This protects 1) from theft of contents 2) property from further damage and 3) YOU and your insurance from liability of children or others getting hurt on the property (this is related to the "attractive nuisance" legal doctrine.) So the fire department will sometimes ensure this done to protect the homeowner and the surrounding community.
So, technically, yes, they should have had you sign the work authorization not the tenant, but your reaction should be appreciation.
Secondly, as pointed out above, this should be paid for by your homeowners insurance. If you have already settled with them the money they paid out should include emergency service. If the claim is still open, pay it and turn in the receipt to the insurance company.
Hopefully that is helpful--I'd be happy to answer any questions you have or provide advice through this process.
I'm looking for a little advice. I received a bill for $1000 after a house fire on one of my rental properties. The company says they boarded up my house because the fire department called them after the fire. I never authorized the work. The tenant signed an agreement with the board up company, not me. So I didn't pay them and now they are going to file a mechanics lien on my house!
Is this legal? I didn't hire them because I would have had my handyman board up the house for a fraction of the cost. If I refuse to pay, is it legal for them to pursue me for collections and file a mechanics lien? I almost feel like I'm being bullied into paying them because I'd probably have to hire an attorney to fight this and it would end up costing more... Any thoughts?
Thank you!
Your HO Insurance should cover this.
I'm sorry you had a fire at your property. I hope everyone is OK. I know this is a difficult process to go through.
I'm an investor, flip fire-damaged properties and own a restoration company that specializes in emergency services/boardup. Before that I have spent over two decades in emergency services including a number of years with the Fire Department.
If you look closely at your homeowners policy you will discover that the policy puts responsibility on the homeowner for securing the house and preventing further damage--emergency board up, roof cover, structural stabilization, etc. It is imperative to get this done right away. This protects 1) from theft of contents 2) property from further damage and 3) YOU and your insurance from liability of children or others getting hurt on the property (this is related to the "attractive nuisance" legal doctrine.) So the fire department will sometimes ensure this done to protect the homeowner and the surrounding community.
So, technically, yes, they should have had you sign the work authorization not the tenant, but your reaction should be appreciation.
Secondly, as pointed out above, this should be paid for by your homeowners insurance. If you have already settled with them the money they paid out should include emergency service. If the claim is still open, pay it and turn in the receipt to the insurance company.
Hopefully that is helpful--I'd be happy to answer any questions you have or provide advice through this process.
I'm looking for a little advice. I received a bill for $1000 after a house fire on one of my rental properties. The company says they boarded up my house because the fire department called them after the fire. I never authorized the work. The tenant signed an agreement with the board up company, not me. So I didn't pay them and now they are going to file a mechanics lien on my house!
Is this legal? I didn't hire them because I would have had my handyman board up the house for a fraction of the cost. If I refuse to pay, is it legal for them to pursue me for collections and file a mechanics lien? I almost feel like I'm being bullied into paying them because I'd probably have to hire an attorney to fight this and it would end up costing more... Any thoughts?
Thank you!
In Illinois, yes they can file a lien (somewhat). If a tenant contracts to have work done on your property, and you knowingly permit that work to happen, yes they can file a mechanic's lien against the property. You can argue "knowingly permitted" but you'd be lucky to get an attorney to even file the response for less than $1k. And even so, how much is a "fraction" of $1k? $400? They got your property boarded up and secured likely while the fire department was still winding up the hoses, that's a big benefit to you as there are folks who listen to the scanners and go in after unsecured fires to gut out/steal the copper pipe and wiring immediately after the authorities are gone. You should be reimbursed by your building insurance so don't sweat it, this isn't a time to be pinching pennies.
I'm going to disagree with everyone that you should get stuck with this bill. I'd figure out what the cost would have been had you hired your handyman to do the job, and then write them a letter stating that you did not hire them, what it would have cost you to pay your handyman, and offering to pay them that amount. And, I'd then say that if they don't accept your offer by x date (I'd give them a week) in writing (give your contact info - address and email) - then you will be filing a small claims action to let a judge decide what's fair, but you'll be asking for your court costs, as well, in the event the judge rules in your favor.
It's never okay to do work without authorization. They know that. I mean, really, for anyone saying you should just pay this, let's pretend you are a reputable company who does any kind of service. You get a call saying - quick! go do some work on someone's property! Are you not going to ask questions about 1) does the person calling have authorization to hire you?; and 2) would you go do the work anyway, regardless of whether or not they did?; and then 3) expect the person to pay you who never agreed to pay you to do anything?
Also, did you require the tenant to have renter's insurance? Should this have been paid by them and their insurance? You might want to talk to your insurance to see if it should have been covered by the tenant's insurance.
But, if you don't want to deal with your insurance, I'd go the route I mentioned and offer them what your handyman would have charged you, and if they don't agree, then file a claim in small claims court for the $1,000 plus court costs, and see if a judge thinks people should be able to charge whatever they want for services they did that they were never hired to do by the person they were billing. Good luck with that, is what I say. Judges in my experience, for the most part, are really smart, fair people.
This is considered an emergency therefore protection of the property is part of the emergency. When the FD gets called they do need your permission to put the fire out so the board up is part of that process. I had a fire last year at one of my properties and arrived at the site. The FD asked if I wanted to board up the building or should they call a service. They should have contacted you or assumed it needed to be done. You can argue the cost of the board up, but it was an emergency. Not sure why they had the tenant sign since they have no authority to sign in that case.
I'm going to disagree with everyone that you should get stuck with this bill. I'd figure out what the cost would have been had you hired your handyman to do the job, and then write them a letter stating that you did not hire them, what it would have cost you to pay your handyman, and offering to pay them that amount. And, I'd then say that if they don't accept your offer by x date (I'd give them a week) in writing (give your contact info - address and email) - then you will be filing a small claims action to let a judge decide what's fair, but you'll be asking for your court costs, as well, in the event the judge rules in your favor.
It's never okay to do work without authorization. They know that. I mean, really, for anyone saying you should just pay this, let's pretend you are a reputable company who does any kind of service. You get a call saying - quick! go do some work on someone's property! Are you not going to ask questions about 1) does the person calling have authorization to hire you?; and 2) would you go do the work anyway, regardless of whether or not they did?; and then 3) expect the person to pay you who never agreed to pay you to do anything?
Also, did you require the tenant to have renter's insurance? Should this have been paid by them and their insurance? You might want to talk to your insurance to see if it should have been covered by the tenant's insurance.
But, if you don't want to deal with your insurance, I'd go the route I mentioned and offer them what your handyman would have charged you, and if they don't agree, then file a claim in small claims court for the $1,000 plus court costs, and see if a judge thinks people should be able to charge whatever they want for services they did that they were never hired to do by the person they were billing. Good luck with that, is what I say. Judges in my experience, for the most part, are really smart, fair people.
So then I ask - why wasn't the handyman there to board up the building before or at the time the board-up company arrived? There was an OPEN AND UNSECURED building - how long is appropriate for an owner to wait to secure it? What if the tenant's remaining possessions were stolen waiting for the handyman to be contacted and for him to arrive? Or what if the copper in the building was stolen in those couple of hours (on the low end)? The board-up company provided a necessary service by IMMEDIATELY securing the premises and preventing further losses.
Hindsight is great. But its not a good business practice to rely on that. The tenant made a decision to authorize a company to secure the building for a reasonable amount. I'd send a thank-you cake to my tenant for doing so - they had the forethought to protect the building after seeing their worldly possessions go up in flames. Where was the owner, why were they not there arranging this themselves?
We aren't talking about 5-6 figures here, we're talking about a difference AT MOST of a few hundred dollars between what he would have paid his handyman had he have know a fire would have occurred on said date and time, and what the board up company wants. They provided a service, authorized by your tenant, much to your benefit, so pay up and stop counting the pennies that you likely aren't even going to be paying once the insurance company eventually re-compensates you for your expenditures.
A small clarification. You cannot insure a rental dwelling with a Homeowner's policy. A homeowner's policy must be owner occupied. You should have a "Rental Dwelling" Policy to insure this structure.
The fire department requested the board up. There may be a local ordinance that requires this to be done. They are more worried about kids playing there and getting hurt than they are someone stealing your copper.
Most insurance policies provide coverage for and will reimburse you for emergency repairs to "Preserve and Protect" the property from further damage. There are some sub par companies that either don't offer the coverage or refuse to pay. Insurance companies located outside of the US are frequently difficult to work with.
If you are unsure of how to proceed consider retaining a Public Insurance Adjuster.
Good Luck and Good Investing.
One city I own property in, if the fire is bad enough that it needs to be boarded up, they call the company, have the work done and the company they use charges you for it. You don't have a choice in the matter. If you don't pay that company, the fire department will pay it and place a special assessment on your property.
Pay the bill, and move on.
Why didn't the tenant call the landlord first?
I mean, this could be a very lucrative business. Follow fire trucks around, offer the freaked-out tenant to board up the house, no need to call your landlord first, and then charge whatever I want.
I would never send a thank-you cake to a tenant who didn't call me when the unit was on fire.
To each his or her own, but I'm not the roll over and play dead type.
@Erich Henson This is a very interesting post. Sounds like there are good arguments on both sides. I'm curious to hear what you are going to do. Let us know how this plays out.
Personally, I think I agree with @Jeremy VanDelinder, @Matthew Olszak, and @Brian R. I think I would probably call the board-up company, explain the situation and ask for a discount. Never hurts to ask and then just pay it and be done with it. Legal fees and mechanics liens and the like can get pretty expensive pretty quickly. Not to mention the time you waste worrying about all of it.
@Account Closed I understand that this is very unfamiliar territory to most folks--it was to me before I started running victim services for the Fire Department. Most people have no reason to become familiar with it, until they do...
In case you are interested to know, boardup companies can't charge whatever they want. Insurance pricing (especially for emergency services) is standardized by software and a price list that is updated monthly. Invoices reflect the current insurance pricing. Chances are if the fire department is calling them, they are a reputable company not a fly-by-night gang chasing around fire trucks.
To the unfamiliar standard insurance prices seem high until one starts to consider the tremendous amount of capital it takes to have a 24/7 response, a stockpile of materials and equipment and the hefty price tag of liability insurance for this type of work (BTW--all the aforementioned are things your "handyman" likely isn't going to have.) I'm sure your tenants think you are making out like a bandit with your rent prices because they don't realize your cost of doing business--same with restoration companies.
That may be more than y'all wanted to know, but something to consider.
I'm just curious how long the burnt-out house was left as is from the time the fire department finished soaking it. Did the property owner actually even have a chance to make any arrangements on his own before the board-up contractor started work?
@Jim K. Hopefully no time at all. That's exactly the point of emergency service. In fact, in many municipalities emergency personnel must stay on scene until there is someone there to secure it--they want to protect the community as well themselves and the homeowner from liability.
@Jim K. Hopefully no time at all. That's exactly the point of emergency service. In fact, in many municipalities emergency personnel must stay on scene until there is someone there to secure it--they want to protect the community as well themselves and the homeowner from liability.
Jeremy, you keep plucking that chicken but this dude's house burned and then he got overcharged to board it up by some pork-barrel-lovin' local contractor who's mighty tight with the local government. How'd he get that sweet contract? Maybe the board-up contractor's son is dating the mayor's daughter, maybe the contractor just has cell phone video of the mayor having a good old time down in Juarez with two midgets and an especially hairy donkey.
It's adding insult to injury. You can tell the OP he got the best possible treatment in the best of all worlds all day long, doesn't change that. What is this, China, where the government shoots you in the head and sends the bill for the bullet to your family?
"Emergency service" sounds like a euphemism for highway robbery here.
@Jason White, you should get in on this one.
@Jim K. Hopefully no time at all. That's exactly the point of emergency service. In fact, in many municipalities emergency personnel must stay on scene until there is someone there to secure it--they want to protect the community as well themselves and the homeowner from liability.
Jeremy, you keep plucking that chicken but this dude's house burned and then he got overcharged to board it up by some pork-barrel-lovin' local contractor who's mighty tight with the local government. How'd he get that sweet contract? Maybe the board-up contractor's son is dating the mayor's daughter, maybe the contractor just has cell phone video of the mayor having a good old time down in Juarez with two midgets and an especially hairy donkey.
It's adding insult to injury. You can tell the OP he got the best possible treatment in the best of all worlds all day long, doesn't change that. What is this, China, where the government shoots you in the head and sends the bill for the bullet to your family?
"Emergency service" sounds like a euphemism for highway robbery here.
Amen. There is obviously profit to be made here, by the fact that these guys do this as a business, with their supplies on hand, and they're ready to run out and board up a house before an owner has a chance to blink.
You took the thought out of my brain as to how to get this sweet contract. A rose by any other name is a rose, and this one stinks.
First time posting to BP. An adjacent property to mine caught on fire last week and partially spread to mine. My property was saved but was 100% water logged. Luckily nobody injured, but the adjacent property was so badly damaged, the city fully demolished it the next day.
It is definitely a surreal experience dealing with this exact issue. My emergency services were significantly more than 1k. I had no idea what emergency Resto services were before this happened. I unfortunately made the mistake of committing to some work before understanding the ramifications. Luckily we hooked up with a great public adjuster who identified the risk and enabled me to set boundaries with the Resto vendor before it spun out of control.
With that said. Yes. There is a ambulance chaser mentality with the emergency service providers and even the public adjusters. I had 20 ppl aggressively trying to get me to sign on the spot for work. I must have had the dazed omg owner look.
On the flip side, the Resto companies bring things to the table that regular subs do not. First, they are there, ready to work on the spot. They know what is needed to be done to satisfy insurance requirements. In my case, with so much water, in addition to stabilizing the roof and securing the structure, there was a lot of water logged debris that needed to be moved out quickly but preserved for insurance. I am just starting this process but 6 days into it, I can definitely say it is DIFFERENT. Insurance rules are different than construction loan/building permit rules.
Now, need to figure out how to get my neighbor to pay for my mortgage And other expenses while I work my insurance claim.
- Norm
Thank you for all of your input. I decided to swallow my pride and pay the man. In the big picture, I probably won't miss the extra $500 or so I had to spend and it's not worth the time and energy to fight over it.