Tenant Threatening Police For Showing - COVID-19 / Coronavirus

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Tenant Threatening Police For Showing - COVID-19 / Coronavirus

Kevin L.
Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes

Hey BP Family,

I have arguebly the WORST and most disgusting on-time paying tenant but here's the situation:

I rent 3 rooms in a townhouse in Virginia to 3 different parties, essentially a shared living situation.

One tenant is moving out the end of the month as a result of his roommate across the hall and his disgusting habits (that's another story).

The disgusting tenant's lease is actually over the end of the month and a notice of non-renewal was given to him over 3 months ago. However, this tenant is refusing to leave per the Virginia governor's stay at home order but to complicate things, he threatened to call police if I showed up on my rental property and did any showings of any room at the townhouse and claims he called the local police department and they said I would be cited/possibly arrested for violating a stay at home order.

Does any of what he claims even sound right?

Can I legally be denied entry into my rental property period to show a room in which the current tenant moving out end of the month had no issue and with proper notice but another tenant doesn't want me to go in the house?

What if I decided that I was going to take over/start living in the soon to be vacant room? Would I still need to give proper/any notice to enter my house/living quarters or at that point, the disgusting tenant would have no say in me entering the house period?

Thanks in advance for any input.

-Kevin

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Lynnette E.
Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
Originally posted by @Kevin L.:

@Lynnette E. @Nathan G. Thank you both for your responses. Virginia's governor, for better or worse, didn't state whether real estate was an essential or non-essential business so it's grey area. I went ahead and even contacted my county PD and they said it's up to the district PD on how they respond. I need to contact the district PD still.

I agree with what you said @Nathan G. about trying to follow all the social distancing guidelines and had my one tenant, not been moving out May, I would probably just let it be but there's some urgency now that I'll be losing $700/month on that tenant's room and even though I know people who need rooms, I don't think anyone is going to rent a room from a home when you open the front door, it smells like a dump.

Do either of you know that if my tenant moving out states that my disgusting tenant across the hall is the reason he's moving out due to unsanitary living conditions, garbage in the common areas left by the disgusting tenant, and fear for pest infestation/mold pileup from hoarding of garbage in the disgusting tenant's room as well as expired food left in the refrigerator, would there be any recourse for me to sue the disgusting tenant for that $700/month I'm losing because of him being the reason the other tenant moving out?

I think that it would probably be hard to collect on one  person being cleaner than another.   I have a friend who rents by the room, mostly to military folks, but it might help you knowing how he does it.  He hires a housekeeper who comes in once or twice a week and cleans the common areas.  He pays for that and its included in their rent.  He also encourages them to hire the housekeeper to do their room, which she will do for about $20 more a month that they pay her directly.  It keeps the common areas clean to a certain standard.  She cleans Fridays and Mondays as weekends tend to be party time and by Monday it needs it.  His contract with them states that if they do not vacuum and clean their private room, then he will hire a housekeeper to clean it and she will be given a key to their room and their rent will be increased, and he lists that their private room would be vacuumed/swept, trash removed, no community dishes kept there, etc.   Most just pay the lady to do their room as they do not want to buy a vacuum or broom, etc.  He has it mandatory that the housekeeper do the bathrooms, even for the master as pee left too long on he floor ruins it!

It won't help now, but for new agreements, you may want to think about a change.

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  • Lynnette E.
    Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    What does the stay at home order exclude?  Some states allow housing or construction.  You may be able to show it if the state with the property said that housing / housing repair/ housing maintenance is essential.

    1Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    6y

    It depends on what your state/local rules state. Personally, I think the social distancing lockdown is ridiculous but I'm following the rules. If your state says to stay out of people's personal space, you should follow the rules.

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    3Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Lynnette E. @Nathan G. Thank you both for your responses. Virginia's governor, for better or worse, didn't state whether real estate was an essential or non-essential business so it's grey area. I went ahead and even contacted my county PD and they said it's up to the district PD on how they respond. I need to contact the district PD still.

    I agree with what you said @Nathan G. about trying to follow all the social distancing guidelines and had my one tenant, not been moving out May, I would probably just let it be but there's some urgency now that I'll be losing $700/month on that tenant's room and even though I know people who need rooms, I don't think anyone is going to rent a room from a home when you open the front door, it smells like a dump.

    Do either of you know that if my tenant moving out states that my disgusting tenant across the hall is the reason he's moving out due to unsanitary living conditions, garbage in the common areas left by the disgusting tenant, and fear for pest infestation/mold pileup from hoarding of garbage in the disgusting tenant's room as well as expired food left in the refrigerator, would there be any recourse for me to sue the disgusting tenant for that $700/month I'm losing because of him being the reason the other tenant moving out?

    0Reply
  • Lynnette E.
    Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Kevin L.:

    @Lynnette E. @Nathan G. Thank you both for your responses. Virginia's governor, for better or worse, didn't state whether real estate was an essential or non-essential business so it's grey area. I went ahead and even contacted my county PD and they said it's up to the district PD on how they respond. I need to contact the district PD still.

    I agree with what you said @Nathan G. about trying to follow all the social distancing guidelines and had my one tenant, not been moving out May, I would probably just let it be but there's some urgency now that I'll be losing $700/month on that tenant's room and even though I know people who need rooms, I don't think anyone is going to rent a room from a home when you open the front door, it smells like a dump.

    Do either of you know that if my tenant moving out states that my disgusting tenant across the hall is the reason he's moving out due to unsanitary living conditions, garbage in the common areas left by the disgusting tenant, and fear for pest infestation/mold pileup from hoarding of garbage in the disgusting tenant's room as well as expired food left in the refrigerator, would there be any recourse for me to sue the disgusting tenant for that $700/month I'm losing because of him being the reason the other tenant moving out?

    I think that it would probably be hard to collect on one  person being cleaner than another.   I have a friend who rents by the room, mostly to military folks, but it might help you knowing how he does it.  He hires a housekeeper who comes in once or twice a week and cleans the common areas.  He pays for that and its included in their rent.  He also encourages them to hire the housekeeper to do their room, which she will do for about $20 more a month that they pay her directly.  It keeps the common areas clean to a certain standard.  She cleans Fridays and Mondays as weekends tend to be party time and by Monday it needs it.  His contract with them states that if they do not vacuum and clean their private room, then he will hire a housekeeper to clean it and she will be given a key to their room and their rent will be increased, and he lists that their private room would be vacuumed/swept, trash removed, no community dishes kept there, etc.   Most just pay the lady to do their room as they do not want to buy a vacuum or broom, etc.  He has it mandatory that the housekeeper do the bathrooms, even for the master as pee left too long on he floor ruins it!

    It won't help now, but for new agreements, you may want to think about a change.

    4Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Lynnette E. Thank you for the advice, that was really helpful!

    Fortunately for me, my basement tenant is a sweetheart and actually keeps the basement area and middle floor area pristine, she has no reason to go upstairs. She also is the most patient and nicest (maybe too nice) tenant I've ever had, as much as she complains to me, she tells me not to say anything to the disgusting tenant and that she will just take care of stuff in the common area but I've went ahead on a few occasions told my disgusting tenant of the concerns.

    I'm hoping, since a lawyer wrote his notice of non-renewal letter and I served him over 3 months ago, that after eviction court re-opens, he has no legal defense for being a holdover tenant and that it is inevitable that he gets evicted and has to pay my attorney fees as well.

    Unfortunately for me, my disgusting tenant does more than collect trash in his room, despite being retired and at home 24-7, it is my understanding, he doesn't bathe nor ever wash his clothes so he'd probably need more than a housekeeper but the clause you mentioned couldn't hurt for me for the future. Thanks again!

    0Reply
  • John Pelaez
    Kalamazoo, MI · Member since 2016 · 45 posts · 13 votes
    6y

    @Kevin Lin I think health and welfare or life or death are still allowable reasons to evict. I can't imagine someone dealing drugs or smashing your property with a bat would still be non-evictable under the stay at home orders. I know it's a different situation but depending on the specific disgusting habit of the tenant, it might be in the same ballpark.

    1Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    Did I hear you correctly that the disgusting tenant called you and said he was going to commit suicide in his bedroom ? i would call the police about that and have him taken to the hospital for that 24 to 48 hour observation . 

    2Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @John Pelaez What you say makes too much sense and I completely agree but who knows how a judge will rule or the law sometimes, smh. Further, Virginia may possibly be one of the most tenant friendly states. My understanding is all courts in Virginia are closed from hearing ANY new eviction cases period until April 26 (for the time being) but after they open up, I can't imagine the backlog alone but all in all, I THINK I'll have an easier case for a holdover tenant come May 1 vs breach of lease tenant but I'll see what my lawyer says. Further, my 2 other non-confrontational tenants in that home aren't exactly helping. Also, I wonder what even defines a health or welfare issue for a tenant in the court of law. My disgusting tenant is a retired Harvard grad and fully mobile but I guess they don't teach cleanliness or hygiene at Harvard.

    It's ironic because I have a buddy who's a landlord in Maryland and his tenant literally destroyed his bedroom door, smoked inside, holes in wall, AND didn't pay rent but still had to go through the process, took 1-2 months and ultimately he won the eviction and was awarded damages/backpay but his tenant plead broke so he had to go back to warrant in debt court to garnish his wages which isn't guaranteed but at least he won that too. My buddy said he'd take a "harmless" smelly trash collecting on-time paying tenant any day over his previous tenant, lol

    My main question I guess is if my disgusting tenant can legally deny me access to my own rental property with proper notice using the governor's stay at home order as his defense and if my other tenant who lives across the hall moves out and I say I'm taking over that tenant's room, would my disgusting tenant lose any denial rights to me since I would think you can't deny someone access to their living quarters can you or who knows?

    0Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Matthew Paul Wish it was that easy, lol, you guys are lucky in Maryland that your governor declared real estate essential. Virginia's governor didn't mention anything one way or the other.

    0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Kevin L. You can have many valid reasons , A tenant reported a water leak , like you said you are moving in . You need to let in the pest control guy .   If the Va Governor didnt say one way or the other my butt wiould be at my property doing emergency repairs necessary for the health and well being of my tenants . 

    1Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Matthew Paul Got it and makes sense, thanks! I can't imagine a landlord getting arrested trying to help his tenants regardless of any order. I just hope my other tenants don't reneg on their complaints if the police did show up altho I would have texts messages to show.

    1Reply
  • Lee Bell
    Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    6y

    He's just trying to intimidate you. Bully you.

    Don't take any crap.

    2Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Lee Bell Thanks for the advice!

    0Reply
  • Marlen Weber
    Specialist · Plano, TX · Member since 2020 · 2k+ posts · 861 votes
    6y

    @Kevin L. what a terrible situation. Keep us posted on what you are able to do to resolve this issue in the midst of the stay at home order. 

    1Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Marlen Weber Will do but it's looking like I'll have to take him to court as a holdover tenant and our courts are closed for eviction cases until at least April 26 and our stay at home order is in effect until June 10 at the moment.

    1Reply
  • Marshall M.
    Washington, DC · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 49 votes
    6y

    @Kevin Lin that sounds disgusting! I second getting a cleaner for the common areas in the future. Your best bet at this point is start building a waiting list. Do you have pictures of the house and room from before the tenant moved in? Post it on Facebook and craigslist and try to get a list of prospective tenants going.

    Good luck!

    1Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Marshall M. Thanks and I do have pictures of the room before he moved in, no formal move-in inspection unfortunately (my mistake) but do have pictures. The carpet is literally less than 3 years old but will need to be replaced. 🙄

    I have been fortunate never really having an issue finding a tenant and fortunately, this tenant is really my only problematic tenant of this degree I've ever had out of over 30 tenants I've had I'd say. Problem is, what sane person is going to rent a room from a house that smells like a dump when you walk in? I'll let everyone know of updates as the occur.

    1Reply
  • Marshall M.
    Washington, DC · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 49 votes
    6y

    @Kevin Lin pictures definitely help but they’re not mandatory. I’ve run test ads with nothing but a description before (no picture) and got a few roommate leads pretty easily. We’re lucky nova is such a strong market.

    And yeah it’s crazy how fast one bad tenant can ruin a place. Just dealt with something like this on a recent listing. What a headache! These coronavirus stay at home orders and eviction stays are putting a lot of landlords in a tight spot. Stay safe and keep us posted.

    1Reply
  • Joshua Klein
    Durham, NC · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    I believe the courts will be backed up for some time after they open their doors again. My focus is in Virginia and my small group I am part of were speaking about that very subject last week. That said, people are still looking for rentals so if you manage to come to some agreement with this tenant so he chooses to leave, you would likely to be able to find another tenant, even in this climate.

    1Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Joshua Klein Thanks for the input. Fortunately, I don't have issues finding new tenants. Unfortunately, my disgusting tenant has already made it clear he's not leaving and basically saying there's nothing I can do because the courts are shut down anyway, he's one of those. I think it's inevitable he gets evicted for being a holdover tenant but he can delay that for some time for the time being.

    0Reply
  • Joshua Klein
    Durham, NC · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 16 votes
    6y

    @Kevin Lin, what if you paid him a little to leave?

    1Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Joshua Klein I offered him a full month free and he said no, he'd be homeless, but he gets $4K/month in pensions and SS...

    0Reply
  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Kevin L. this is just an idea. I have a tenant in one one of my homes that I rent out by the room. This tenant has no boundaries and everyone in the house is bothered by him to one degree or another. But he isn’t bad enough to really need to evict him. But he could get there. Here is the idea, rather than renting out the room across the hall to anyone, you could just hire a single friend who is unemployed right now due to the economy to stay in the room for free for the next month or two and their only job would be to annoy and bother this tenant to the full extent possible. Here are some suggestions:

    1. Have your friend open the disgusting tenants bedroom door randomly to just tart talking with him about whatever.

    2. Have your friend put the bathroom garbage in front of the disgusting tenants door and say he needs to empty the garbage that he puts in their daily. 

    3. Have your friend listen to awful music really loudly when only the disgusting tenant is there.

    4. Have your friend start eating the disgusting tenants food or just start throwing some of it away saying that it looked like it was going bad.

    5. Have your friend tell the discussing tenant that he smells and should take a shower every day. With phrases like, Dude, what’s wrong with you? You smell. Have you ever heard of showering?

    6. Have your friend act as if he has OCD and is the hygiene police and follow the tenant around saying things like, “are you going to pick that up because I really think you should pick that up and through it away.” “Are you going to shower today because you should probably shower today.“ have your friend start walking into his room and moving things around or throwing things away that “look like trash.”

    7. Have your friend move the disgusting tenants bed outside in the back yard when he isn’t there and say that it had bed bugs because he doesn’t clean his sheets and the bed bugs spread to his room from the discussing tenants bed.

    8. Have your friend call the police for harassment on the discussing tenant if he gets angry with him for doing any of those things.

    Basically, think of all of the most annoying things a tenant can do to another tenant and just hire a friend to do it to him. I know it may sound immature, but to me, taking advantage of the system sounds worse.

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    1Reply
  • Kevin L.
    OP
    Investor · Northern Virginia · Member since 2016 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    6y

    @Shiloh Lundahl Thanks for the response and suggestions! lol, I just need to find that someone willing to speak up. My disgusting's tenants roommates currently are arguebly the nicest/least confrontational/most spineless people I have ever met, they might complain to me about him here and there but never followup and/or say "just letting you know but don't worry about it" like they will tell me he smells and hasn't showered or washed his clothes in days to weeks but can't tell him to do so directly?

    It's my belief my disgusting tenant lives in solitary confinement by choice in his room 24-7 with headphones on and never leaves except for food. Further, he has no bed but can't see the floor/carpet in his room either so how he sleeps is beyond me.

    What kind of things have you heard that your boundaryless tenant does and have you ever spoken to him about the issues or the roommates have been able to resolve it on their own?

    0Reply
  • Shiloh LundahlPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Kevin L. He walks into people’s rooms. He gives comments on which tenants I should accept. When he was the first tenant in the house he occupied 2 rooms to see which room he liked the best. He horded about 20 cases of bottled water in the living room for months until I told him he needed to move it. He occupied a large area (about 40 square feet) of the garage with his junk without asking if he could store anything in the garage. He is the tenant that tells me every little thing that is wrong with the property. I have had 11 people in the property over the past 8 months and he is the only one who complains about anything except for the other tenants who complain about him. I live in the house too but I’m only ever there to sleep because I’m busy so I generally ignored things until my washing machine broke and he took it outside to the back yard and left it there and put a washing machine from somewhere else in its place and said that he should now get a discount on rent since he is allowing people to use his washing machine. I tolerate him because he pays rent but my family will be moving into the house in June or July so I’m just planning on waiting until then to have him leave.

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