Help! Crazy tenant, need Austin lawyer recommendation if possible.

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Help! Crazy tenant, need Austin lawyer recommendation if possible.

Robyn R.
Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 4 votes

We have had a tenant in a SF rental for the past 5 months. We realized about a month after he moved in that he was going to be a problem to deal with so we immediately hired a prop manager so that we could be taken out of the equation. This was especially important to us because this house happens to be two doors down from our residence and we didn't want to spoil neighborly relations.
A few days ago, we started getting texts from the girlfriend (who is also on the lease but doesn't love there...) saying they wanted to meet with us to come to an agreement on breaking the lease. I advised her that everything was to go through property management. That didn't go over well, but her boyfriend is a bully and I didn't want to get bullied into an agreement that wasn't fair to us, hence why I hired prop management.
They want to break lease with 60 day notice with no penalty. The reasons for breaking lease are related to maintenance issues which they didn't feel were addressed in a timely manner. The claims are pretty bogus and I have documentation from the PM to dispute their claims. I countered that we would give them 60 days and their deposit back, but they needed to pay a one month penalty. They were not at all happy with that.
Long story short, the guy made a threatening remark to the PM today and so the management company just advised me that they are unable to effectively manage this situation and are pretty much hanging us out to dry with a very difficult tenant.
I could bore you all with a bunch of particulars, but the main thing I need right now is a good Austin RE lawyer to aid us in getting this jerk out of our property without him damaging it. One of the worst parts is that my husband just got laid off last week and this is the worst possible time to have vacancy and lawyer fees!
On top of needing a lawyer, I kinda also need a hug right now, and a virtual one will do:)

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Jon Klaus
Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
13y

I'd let them out in 30 days, no penalty. Security deposit to be returned according to the terms of the lease. Then get a great tenant in there, hopefully before school starts.

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  • Jon Klaus
    Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I'd let them out in 30 days, no penalty. Security deposit to be returned according to the terms of the lease. Then get a great tenant in there, hopefully before school starts.

    7Reply
  • Hans Restuccia
    Real Estate Lender · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 243 posts · 24 votes
    13y

    If you think they are going to do damage to the property you need to put them on notice immediately that you will bring criminal action against them- in writing, hand delivered. Warn them that if there is any damage you will have them arrested!

    That way they will know that you have documented this and WILL do it!!! Then evict them for breach of leas4- your lawyer can find something they did- always negotiate from a position of strength- I have found w/ a threat of criminal action most people back down.

    Dont let these bums push you around!! :-}

    0Reply
  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I agree -- don't hold out for the one month penalty if you want them out. Get them out and get someone else in there. While you are doing that, be sure to check over market rents or have your PM company do that and see if you can get a little higher rent.

    It's not worth fighting to keep a tenant in there that you don't want.

    Podcast Guest on Show #29
    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Accountant · Denver, CO · Member since 2012 · 154 posts · 61 votes
    13y

    I completely agree with Jon let them out no penalty before they decide they are staying a few months for free and you end up with an even bigger problem. You also don't want to have issues with people that know where you live ........No matter what you do they will likely feel as if they were wronged, I would just let them off and then find a good tenant before this turns in to a bigger issue.

    0Reply
  • Vijaianand Thirunageswaram
    Real Estate Broker/Owner & Property Manager · Sugar Land, TX · Member since 2013 · 660 posts · 459 votes
    13y

    I dealt with these kinda of tenants and they don't even get out of the house. I have to evict them out and they can stay free while the eviction process is going on in local JP court. In Texas, you can go to court for eviction and most likely you will have the case and property but they might damage the property which will be waste of time and money. I would just let go of them and find a better tenant. I am surprised how your PM company is dealing with this situation. Usually they should be able to manage and take care of it.

    All the best.

    1Reply
  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    13y

    Here is a link to a recent thread that had a similar discussion:

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/52/topics/90868-early-termination-situation

    The "let them go amicably and find a replacement" approach makes sense for difficult people like this, so the penalty becomes the only point to consider. If you are concerned that they would do damage, then that damage could exceed the amount of any penalty that you would seek.... Attorney's fees get expensive too. Minimize your lost rent by following suggestions in that other thread and find their replacement ASAP.

    You will get your satisfaction down the road when you get inquiries from future landlords where they seek to rent: you just have to be honest and report that they failed to fulfill the entire lease term, and that there were threatening remarks made to a property manager.

    Lastly, be more thorough in screening future tenant applicants; there usually is some previous behavior that you can discover when you have applicants such as this tenant.

    0Reply
  • Robyn R.
    OP
    Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Thank you all so much for your input. Part of me wants to really go after them because they are so misguided and need someone to put them in their place, but the realist in me agrees with most of you to just let them get the heck out of there and be done with it. The sticky part though is that, I agree with 30 days and not 60, and that is where they will again try to boss us around.
    I also am incredibly dismayed by the property management company. They know the guy is a pain in the *** and I think just were looking for any excuse to not deal with him anymore. (which is exactly why I was paying them in the first place, otherwise we would have continued to manage.
    This morning he said to the PM that "he has two words for her, and the last time he used them he ended up in jail". Him making that statement has given them the excuse to say that the PM felt threatened. My husband wants to evict him on those grounds, but yea, I hear you all, sometimes, you just have to bite the bullet and be the adult and not get dragged into the drama.
    This is exactly why I still feel like I want to get a lawyer so that they can do all the correspondence with this jerk. I have a hard time keeping my mouth shut and not telling people what I really think of them! Hey, atleast I know that about myself:-)

    0Reply
  • Tom Goans
    Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    I totally agree with Jon, cut your losses and move on.

    What do you accomplish by trying to be difficult or collect more money? Mess with them and you may learn a very expensive lesson that mad tenants can be very, very, very expensive. And they know where you live.

    Keep them happy. Smile, shake their hand, say you completely understand, thank them for the opportunity, and let them move out peacefully. You will have the property back and ready to re-rent much sooner. Some day you will consider this to be one of the best decisions you have ever made.

    By the way, how much do you think it will cost to hire an Austin attorney? Poof. Watch the money disappear.

    0Reply
  • Tom Goans
    Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    Someone mentioned that you can get satisfaction when speaking with their possible future landlords. In Texas, you can be sued for speaking ill of a tenant. Be very careful. My attorney stated that all I could state is I would not rent to them again, but give no reason.

    0Reply
  • Lynn Currie
    Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 452 posts · 309 votes
    13y

    My business coach taught me a very valuable lesson many years ago that I have to revisit often.

    She said to me, "Do you want to be right or do you want to win?"

    It's hard to swallow an unfair situation, but in this case, I think you probably want to win. Being right will cost you much more and you're never going to convince a guy like that to follow the rules of fairness.

    If I were you, I'd even go one step further. Follow Jon Klaus's advice and let your tenants think they won. You don't want anyone with that kind of crazy sauce wanting revenge on you, especially if they know where you live.

    7Reply
  • Robyn R.
    OP
    Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    I totally hear what yall are saying. Makes sense. I have chosen however to make an appt with an attorney ($165 consult) just to get all my facts straight on legalities before I have any contact with them again. They have asked for 60 days, I want them out in 30. If I don't have my legal facts straight concerning their maintenance complaints, then I will have no power to get them to agree. Neither of them have any understanding of tenant law and I want them to be aware that the issues they have complaints about are unreasonable and would'nt hold up in a court of law.

    0Reply
  • Robyn R.
    OP
    Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    As for screening, both had excellent credit and stable job history. The boyfriend lived in the same rental house for 8 years and the girlfriend owned her residence. She was planning on renting it out so they could live together, but she moved out after a week (although she's still on lease). She said it was because the commute was way longer than she expected, I think its because she realized he was crazy! I think the real reason they want to break lease is because she wants out from under it.

    0Reply
  • John Chapman
    Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 718 posts · 913 votes
    13y

    I'm not sure how your area is but now is a great time to be re-leasing properties in DFW. All the families are moving around so SFRs are in demand. I'd let him out sooner rather than later (heck, let him leave by July 1 so you can get it leased by August 1) Around here stuff goes quick if it's priced fairly. Who knows, you might be able to raise rent. I would call this a minor bump in the road.

    As for a lawyer, I probably wouldn't waste my money on one. Texas is very landlord friendly and you could probably get them out in a few weeks and a few hundred bucks in filing fees, but why bother? (I say this as a lawyer).

    Finally, I would also observe that you may not be getting it straight from your PM. Maybe the PM wasn't doing a very good job. Maybe there are repeated emails from tenant to the PM requesting maintenance that was never done. Maybe he misinterpreted the purported threat.

    1Reply
  • Wes Brumit
    Homeowner · Longview, TX · Member since 2013 · 131 posts · 17 votes
    13y

    Virtual hug at you.

    Defusing the situation by letting them I would agree. The potential for more damage is not worth it.

    0Reply
  • Tom Goans
    Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    John, are you related to George Chapman in Amarillo?

    0Reply
  • Robyn R.
    OP
    Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Wes Brumit, thx for the hug:-)
    I agree with you all, we are going to try and get them out as soon as possible with as little fan fair as possible. The thing that will be tough is getting them out sooner rather than later as this guy has SOOOOO much stuff as well as a bunch of cars and boats etc. I am not sure what is against code compliance as all his stuff is in the back yard, but one of the neighbors filed a complaint and he is now all fired up by that as well.
    He has been whining that he wants to be able to give 60 days notice when he is ready to and not immediately. He says it will be very inconvenient for him to have to find a place for all his stuff and he needs time to do it.
    I want him and all his stuff gone in 30 days so we can be done with it and sell or rent the property asap. This will be the tough part because he is manipulative and bossy and thinks he has a bunch of valid complaints (which he doesnt), hence why I want a lawyer to review everything so that I have some ammo to get him out sooner.
    Prop manager hasn't been perfect, but I am not surprised they don't want to deal with him because I have, and he is a bully type.

    0Reply
  • Arjun K.
    Real Estate Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2012 · 210 posts · 15 votes
    13y

    I am surprised not more responses are disappointed with the property manager. Sounds like a terrible PM. All downside with that PM.

    0Reply
  • Robyn R.
    OP
    Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    And if I haven't said it enough already,
    A BIG THANK YOU to everyone for your input, it has made me feel so much better to have all of you out there willing to give your advice! Bigger pockets is the best!

    0Reply
  • Tom Goans
    Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    Ammo to get the tenant out?

    You catch more flies with honey. Lose the anger and emotion. This is a business. The goal is profit without stress and anger.

    If you want the person out sooner than 60 days, offer a cash benefit ... such as the return of the deposit. Pay for a moving truck. Do something other than making him more angry with you and you throwing more money down the money pit.

    Move on. Live and let live. It did not work. You need no ammo. You need to be understanding, friendly, and work things out with the tenant.

    You will be sorry if you seek ammo.

    I have owned and managed residential rental property for almost 50 years. Learn from my mistakes.

    1Reply
  • Robert Steele
    Investor · Lucas, TX · Member since 2010 · 620 posts · 352 votes
    13y

    I have to agree with all the advice given but it doesn't seem fair that bully tenant's get to ride roughshod over us landlords.

    Robyn Roberts post the name of your PM so other Austin landlords know not to use them.

    0Reply
  • George P.
    Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    i have had similar situation before. just let them go. the sooner you let them go, the sooner your current problems go away.

    the last thing you want is to piss them off and they pour concrete down your pipes.

    0Reply
  • Tom Goans
    Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    I know one landlord that tried to show dominance over the tenant. He wanted to sell me the property. When we arrived, the front door was gone. When we looked in, the floor was gone ... you could see the ground below. The sheetrock was gone, the wire was gone, fixtures were gone, sinks were gone, the dishwasher was gone ...

    I know of another where the tenant even took the windows.

    Forget the attorney or your other options. Just let the tenants go and move on.

    0Reply
  • Robyn R.
    OP
    Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Tom Goans Thank you for the reminder, I do appreciate the fact that emotion really has no place in a business transaction. Ammo is probably the wrong word for what I'm seeking from a lawyer. I really just want to be armed (again maybe not a good word!) with the correct information about tenant/landlord law. As I'm only three houses into being a landlord, there is so much to learn and I want to be in the know for future tenant issues.
    Also, we don't currently have a real estate lawyer to go to if problems do arise, so it will make me feel better to have someone to call for any future legal issues.
    Totally in agreement about dealing with this with as little drama as possible and just moving on. Thanks for your advice.

    0Reply
  • Robyn R.
    OP
    Rehabber · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 41 posts · 4 votes
    13y

    Robert Steele PM was OneProp, they have offices in Dallas, Austin, Ft Worth, Houston, San Antonio, Atlanta, Baton Rouge, Tulsa, Charlotte and OK city.
    While some offices may be better than others due to staffing, I will tell you the Austin manager has been nothing but a problem and the COO in Dallas has not been very helpful either.
    I should have heeded the red flags when I first signed with them. After signing up and had some questions concerning their owner portal, it took me calling my contact in the san antonio office to get the austin PM to respond to me. I had left her two VMs and two emails over the course of a week asking her to call me to answer a few questions. The excuse was that she was out of the country and the person handling her affairs had dropped the ball. She was so apologetic that I let it slide.
    The tenants have complained about the same issue of non responsiveness, so even though they are a bit crazy, they still have a valid gripe and I wish they had alerted me sooner that this was occurring. Basically the PM made a difficult tenant situation even worse, then left me holding the bag once it got too sticky. The tenants refused to talk to the austin PM and only wanted to deal with her supervisor, the COO in Dallas. Im pretty sure he was just annoyed by the situation and jumped at the chance to just not deal with the tenant anymore. Seriously poorly run business, stay away.
    The tenant said to the austin PM yesterday that "he had two words for her and last time he used them he ended up in jail", well we all know what those two words are, and I'd surmise that at some point or another every PM has dealt with angry tenants, but one would think it is their job to manage a tenants dissatisfaction and not just claim that they were threatened and leave their client with a mess.
    So, moral of the story is be wary of Oneprop.
    Also, moral for me is to listen to my intuition, I should have cancelled with them right at the beginning.

    1Reply
  • Robert Steele
    Investor · Lucas, TX · Member since 2010 · 620 posts · 352 votes
    13y

    That's why 9 times out of 10 no one does a better job of managing your properties than you do. Personally I believe that applies to managing your money too. But maybe that's just me being a control freak.

    4Reply
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