Cashing out 401k for rental

Cashing out 401k for rental

Investor · Southeast, VA · Member since 2017 · 46 posts · 11 votes

Hey BP fam,

Hoping to reach some savvy investors with this question. So I decided to close my old 401k from a previous company. I was going to move it into an IRA.


When I talked with my IRA rep he says I shouldn't have gotten the checks sent to me directly but instead sent to them so it rolls over and I don't get hit for taxes.

Well it was too late and the checks came anyways, which they say I can just shred them and do the rollover correctly and not take the tax hit.

This got me thinking though. I see on the checks how hard I would get hit by the taxes (not too bad).. some were Roth and some traditional so I did already pay into the Roth taxes. The net amount leaves me enough to be able to buy some property in cash, albeit.. something modest but still property that I could rent out and have it start paying me back now and into retirement. 

Other than the tax hit, am I missing something? Am I the only one that thinks this is a good idea? I’m 42 so retirement is still a ways off.. I wouldn’t be able to see that money until then anyways. If i use that money now.. that same money could be paying me back now and into retirement, all while hopefully gaining in property value.

The only other problem is this is the bulk of my retirement. I have other 401k’s with my new company, but nothing close to this amount. But I’m not so sure I trust this money in the stock market anyways. It took me 20 years to accumulate that and if I use past performance to guess at the future value... it doesn’t look good. Those mutual funds are a crapshoot anyways. 

I know this is a little off topic but I do want to get another rental and I’m not really interested in going the SDIRA route. I’m just thinking this could easily make me $1k/month now and for years to come and into retirement. Hell by then it would probably make me $2k a month after all expenses. Just figuring $1k/month net over the next 20 years is $240k. Why get paid back in retirement later when it could start paying me now... and then..?

Thanks,

Jason

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Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 164 posts · 114 votes
5y

@Cody Benedetto This is also my rule. I have enough faith in the compound interest that mutual funds offer to commit to a 401k as a piece of my retirement plan. I don’t usually understand it when I hear individuals say they “don’t trust” the stock market. What is it that you don’t trust exactly? And at retirement you shouldn’t really be exposed to stocks much at all anyway in your 401k.

Real estate is a pivotal part of my long term retirement plan and is something I’m committed to. But cashing out a retirement account feels like robbing Peter to pay Paul. And if COVID has taught us anything it’s that the rental market can also have its insanely turbulent times too.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jason Young:

     I think I probably could take a loan from it it, but I hate borrowing money from anything unless I really need to but it is nice to be able to tap into it if needed.

    Worst case scenario is everything goes pear shaped and your loan converts to a taxable withdraw. Best case scenario you put your money back in and don't rob your future self (but for the replacement with after tax dollars.) 

  • Member since 2019 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    Mathematically speaking you're right and I've calculated the same too. The only thing is your replacement property but me exactly performing like your original assumption.

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Jason Young Its very counter intuitive but yes doing a 401k makes no sense if you invest in REI.


    I am very against 401Ks because you can only choose from crappy options that have heavy fees.

    I don't really like Self Directed Roths or any tax sheltered retirement accounts either because you are subject to UDFI (more details below) and cannot leverage your investment which is a pillar in real estate investing. If you want to do one here is a big list of them. Knock yourself out but I cashed out mine a while ago because I plan to live off my cashflow and retire well before the Government allows you to tap into your retirement account.

    If you have distrust on where this country is going you need to expect that taxes will go up in the future. How else will we pay out for all these bank bailouts and quantitative easing.

    What is the largest source of Revenue for the US IRS?

    401K, SDIRA, IRAs, even Roth’s when not if they can change the tax laws. Basically qualified retirement money. People are not spending it and you can bet the IRS is going to get it.


    You will pay taxes now or later and you will likely to pay more taxes in the future because you will make more money... so pay it now. Most people think they will be in a lower tax bracket in the future because they plan to downgrade their lifestyle... this is again incorrect money myths that are so prevalent.

    By taking you money out early you will incur a 10% penalty but if you understand how you can easily get 20-30%+ returns in real estate a year that 10% penalty is nothing. You can recoup that in 6-18 months.

  • Investor · Southeast, VA · Member since 2017 · 46 posts · 11 votes
    5y

    @Lane Kawaoka finally someone that gets it.... or just agrees with me 😆 maybe we’re both idiots.. just kidding. It’s nice to have the argument for and against it and hear everyone’s thoughts and point of views. It seems that most that are against it feel as if you’ll never pay these taxes or that you’ll definitely make more in a 401k. 

    Something I hadn’t thought of that is a good point... what if you lose your job or get laid off?? Sure maybe you can take a loan out of your 401k but what if you had an asset that was paying you monthly. That sure would help if you’re not working. @Lane Kawaoka you hit the nail on the head for me!! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Robins, IA · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 18 votes
    5y

    I am also considering completely liquidating the traditional IRA/401k to buy rentals. I have pulled some out, paid the taxes, and now get slightly better than 12% per year with no hassle via $1100/mo based on $100,000 withdrawn using a property manager. My main reason is that I have no faith in our government and can only see taxes going higher in the future. Perhaps even taxing (again) Roth money. They have to raise money somehow and will no doubt be able to see a whole bunch of money sitting in retirement accounts. I know, it's pretty far fetched but I'm nervous about the country's debt. Other option would be to keep printing dollars and cause massive inflation; in which case the value of property should also go up ( and the rent. ). Just my 2 cents.

  • Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    @Craig McLaughlin Apples and Kumquats. Pulling in a 12% return on an initial investment in a rental property can't be compared to an investment account that is reducing your tax base, reinvesting dividends and most importantly- compounding.

    I am not knocking one over the other, I have and love both, but they are 2 vastly different vehicles. I have no problem with paying taxes on my windfall of retirement accounts! I have paid the tiniest fraction of money to maintain them, they have provided me tax deferral today, they have grown tax free, and they have compounded absolutely beautifully and it gets better the longer they are invested. Damn right Uncle Sam wants his slice that's why there are RMD's. But they are far far more liquid then RE. I can control the how it is dispersed and plan my taxes accordingly. 

    My RE investment throws of a very nice chunk of change, but it costs a lot to maintain it, it is not liquid and it costs an awful lot of money to make it liquid. And I would be betting on a serious curbing of 1031, and other RE friendly tax breaks before Roth being challenged.

    So 2 vastly different animals. If you can have both, have both, but don't rob your future self of compounding!

  • Rental Property Investor · Honolulu, HAWAII (HI) · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Jason Young only take financial advice from those who are financially free.

  • Member since 2019 · 27 posts · 7 votes
    5y

    @Jason Young Great post. I won't have all the advice and details as everyone else on here but I can say my wife and I are in a similar position and we see real estate as a better investment than our current 401k mutual funds. Whether you leverage or not it sounds like your gut is pointing you in a great direction. All of the benefits toward owning a property (tax advantages, likely appreciation over 20+ years, etc, all of which you know.)

    I will say that we are looking to leverage our next property as an inflation hedge; locking in a low-interest rate now is very appealing to us. But do what's right for you. To me, the choice between an income-producing rental and money in an always uncertain market I'd go with the former.

    Good luck and keep us posted!

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