Rental Property Investor · Olathe, KS · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
I need to vacate a renter (one side of duplex) in order to make major repairs. Tenant was month2month and we gave 30 days notice. They should be out on/by May 31, 2021. They weren’t happy with the notice, started attacking me about all the things wrong with the unit (duh - that’s why we need to renovate), yelling about how good the other tenant has it and how awful it is that we are “kicking them out”, but not kicking out the other tenant (their side was already updated before we purchased the property). I was kind enough to give them the heads-up an entire month before I mailed the 30 days notice, so they knew it was coming.
Anyway, beside being ticked off that we need them out, they are trying to make it personal and also making life miserable for the next-door tenant. They went ahead and scheduled their June 1, 2021 payment on our management portal...they have never “scheduled” a payment ahead of time in the past! To me this indicates that they are not planning to leave when they are supposed to.
What should I do?
If the payment sends when they scheduled it, am I obligated to let them stay or do I have to move to an official eviction?
The property is in Kansas and we self manage....really questioning that part moving forward.
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
5y
If they are happy living the way the unit is then the place isn’t in that bad of shape. You can’t evict now anyway. I would wait for the moratorium to be over and then go down the road of eviction
Tell them that they need to move and if after the renos are done, they want to have right of first refusal on the updated unit at $X rent, they can. I'm guessing if the other unit was updated, the other tenants are also paying more in rent.
Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
5y
If they are happy living the way the unit is then the place isn’t in that bad of shape. You can’t evict now anyway. I would wait for the moratorium to be over and then go down the road of eviction
Rental Property Investor · Olathe, KS · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
5y
@Theresa Harris I should mention that since the birth of their new baby they have: 2 parents, 1 teenager, 3 kids under 3 yrs all living in a 2bd/1ba duplex. They won’t be offered an opportunity to return based on how many people reside there. That’s over the 2 per bedroom plus 1 rule.
Rental Property Investor · Olathe, KS · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
5y
@Joe Martella I guess I hadn’t thought of that. Do you think their angle is to try and get another month there if they know they can’t be kicked out?? I mean, we aren’t trying to “kick them out” and we definitely aren’t evicting them. We just need them out so we can make necessary repairs, renovate, and raise rent to match the adjoining unit.
Rental Property Investor · Olathe, KS · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
5y
@Theresa Harris yes, you are correct in assuming the other side rents for more, but this renter in discussion seems to believe that THEY are the ones paying more and they have to live in the worst unit...ugh...that clearly makes no sense, but they just can’t be reasoned with!
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
5y
Give them notice rent is increasing by 10%, or whatever you think you can increase it to with repairs, with proper notice. If they are willing to live there as is great. Maybe they have enough roommates they’d rather pay that higher rent than move.
@Theresa Harris yes, you are correct in assuming the other side rents for more, but this renter in discussion seems to believe that THEY are the ones paying more and they have to live in the worst unit...ugh...that clearly makes no sense, but they just can’t be reasoned with!
They can ask the other tenants what they pay for rent if they don't trust you.
Realtor · Austin, TX · Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 0 votes
5y
@Jenni Moore can you not evict them based on people in the home like you mentioned? Also, is there a way to disconnect their portal payment, although if that happened they may just stay and not leave without payment. Sorry not much help. May just wait like other mentioned then evict.
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
5y
Someone suggested giving this tenant an option to re-rent. Don't do it. They have proven to be a difficult tenant.
I would talk to an eviction attorney regarding this. And whether collecting that rent is compatible with your getting them out. Time to threaten them with an eviction, which would inhibit their future ability to rent apartments.
Rental Property Investor · Olathe, KS · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
5y
@Brian Ploszay thanks for the reassurance - I completely agree on not offering them a chance to return. They have become somewhat combative towards me and have begun making the tenants in the adjoining unit very uncomfortable (threats, yelling, etc). They aren’t welcome back.
I didn’t expect it to come to this, I just thought giving them verbal notice at 60 days and then sending letterhead via certified mail at 30 days was good enough. I expected them to be on their way, but it’s looking like it may just turn into a big issue. I can’t have them running off the other renter either, then I’d have both units of the duplex vacant!
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
5y
@Jenni Moore Eviction attorneys are usually local. Ask other local landlords for a referral. Or even google for such lawyers in your area. Interview the attorneys briefly. Sometimes lawyers do a little bit of everything. You want a dedicated attorney who routinely does evictions.
Rental Property Investor · DFW, TX · Member since 2013 · 953 posts · 910 votes
5y
@Jenni Moore Just document everything and be very organized if/when you go to court. Read and know your state and local property code. Some states have provisions about "clock resets" for rent or partial rent paid, while others don't. If you have everything document properly you should win in court without paying a lawyer. It may be worth it to do it yourself for the learning experience.
Flipper/Rehabber · Pittsburgh · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
5y
@Jenni Moore I'm not saying that the following thought means that you need to keep renting to them, but... new baby??? Of course they don't want to move. Can you work something amicable out with them, where they get a longer notice period but then still vacate? What's the critical urgency of having them leave in exactly 30 days, especially if they're paying rent?
@Theresa Harris I should mention that since the birth of their new baby they have: 2 parents, 1 teenager, 3 kids under 3 yrs all living in a 2bd/1ba duplex. They won’t be offered an opportunity to return based on how many people reside there. That’s over the 2 per bedroom plus 1 rule.
This statement alone could get you accused of familial discrimination. Babies are generally considered exempt from the 2 per room plus one rules. Babies often sleep in the parents room when they are young, so legally they are probably not in violation of any occupancy standards. Either way, I strongly suggest you never mention occupancy to them or anyone. Stick to your original reason of renovation, because odds are good the occupancy argument will be a loosing one.
You need to turn off rent payments for them in your portal. If that payment is sent to you, it becomes more difficult to evict them. Close the portal and notify them in writing that they "accidentally scheduled June payment, which is after then need to be moved out". Tell them you agree with their feedback that the property needs updates, which is the reason you are asking them to leave.
Rental Property Investor · Olathe, KS · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
5y
@Nicholas L. I have 4 young kids of my own, I totally see where you are coming from! We bought the property last July and allowed the current tenants to finish out their existing lease (up in the fall), we figured they’d move on since they made no indication they wanted to stay....but both did not move out like I had assumed. I found myself scrambling to offer new leases, so the units wouldn’t be vacant over the winter. At that time we only had 6 and 12 month leases. Both tenants asked for m2m but that’s not something we had previously offered, so we told them it wasn’t an option. Both tenants signed a 6 month lease....again, total assumption on my part, but after begging for m2m and then choosing 6m over the 12m option - it REALLY sounded like neither intended to stay for long!!
Now, in hindsight, they probably knew they were expecting a little baby and you’d think that knowing that would entice them to choose the long term stability, but no that’s not what they did. I however had no idea they were expecting a baby until we offered them a m2m lease when the 6m was up (because again, they didn’t move out!). I kindly explained to them that choosing the shortest lease term possible leaves me believing they don’t want to stay long, so I began planning the renovations and getting a contractor scheduled for the spring.
Well, here we are, it’s spring, I gave them 60 days (yes, they were clearly agitated, and mentioned the baby coming) and told them I already had the repairs scheduled for May.
I feel like going back on this is a super slippery slope. I’ll be behind on repairs and might lose my contractor if I’m not ready to roll when his schedule allows.
Also, the repairs are pretty significant...this side of the duplex doesn’t have central air, so we have to get that installed, total bathroom gut b/c the tub is cracked and the sink leaks and toilet is 50 years old....I can’t do this stuff while they remain living there.
Rental Property Investor · Olathe, KS · Member since 2017 · 15 posts · 5 votes
5y
@Joe Splitrock I really appreciate your comment and for sharing your view on this! This is not something I knew about (baby not counting) and also was unaware that this type of language could be criminal...not my intention at all, so I will be careful what I say moving forward. I was actually much more focused on and concerned about myself getting into trouble for knowingly allowing too many people to reside in the unit.
You are correct, the real reason I need them out is to renovate. My previous reply explains some of the extensive renovations needed and they have a tub that currently leaks every time they use it - which ultimately is damaging my property, therefore I need to renovate the unit in a timely manner. I bought the property in that condition, but really thought we’d be doing the renovations last fall, so we are way behind my ideal timeline anyway. Now it’s spring and we need to get central air installed before it’s summer or the unit won’t even be rentable for the summer. I can’t budge on the timeline.