HVAC disaster - advice needed!

HVAC disaster - advice needed!

Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes

Hi all -

We have been landlords for 5 years with very few issues. Everything that has come up we have been able to fix within a day. We take great pride in our homes. I am sick to my stomach with an issue we have been having.

Well maintained and recently updated single family home we have owned since 2007.

New tenant moved in June 1.

Central Ac crapped out June 5.

Tenant informed us on a Saturday evening that the temp was not keeping up. We offered to bring over ac window units immediately and said we need would have someone Monday. Tenant declined window units.

Our usual guy could not come Sunday. At that point it was 2 degree mis match. Air continued to get further from temp. Monday came and, this was the first hot hot hot weekend, the guy want had planned to look at it got back up. Of note, he would not have been able to replace, just diagnose.

Monday we make nonstop calls- no one could come, most places wouldn’t even call back, the soonest appointment we could get was a week away.

Finally one company says they can come right now (at this point it is 7pm) for the service call. I go to the house and meet them there. They say new unit needed, they can do it tomorrow. Unit was old, I was not surprised and did not have the time for a second opinion. Price was in the ballpark of what I expected, and it was 85 degrees in the house. I sign contract and give 4K deposit. They say they will be over at 1 the next day and it will take 4 hours. The man made some strange comments but he seemed more like a grandpa who didn’t know what was appropriate and I let it roll off my shoulders

They come at 130 the next day. My husband meets therm there, offers to stay but tenant says ok to go. At 6pm I get a text from the tenant saying she feels uncomfortable and asks if we can come over. I call the guys and ask how much longer, they say an hour. I go over and sit with her. The guys are outside smoking cigarettes. Tenant tells me he said “I know you must have been so hot last night, I almost came back to see if you wanted to come to my house”... I understand why she felt weird, I felt uncomfortable ins them as well. After an hour, I ask how much longer, the guy says “why are you so pushy”. At this point it is 730pm. At 8 my husband swaps with me and stays with the tenant the installation was done. They finished at 1130pm!!!!!!!!!!!! Install was June 8. Mechanic text messages tenant the following day “how are you feeling? Is ac working ok?”. Tenant responds to only contact landlord.

June 20 tenant states Ac is not keeping up with the temperate. Another super hot weekend. Ac was on 67, getting to 74, and at one point 76. I did not feel comfortable calling back the same company. It’s Saturday afternoon. I get an AC guy we know and work with (would have asked to do the install June 8 but he was on his honeymoon!) and he comes 9am Sunday morning. Thought it was that some Freon was lost in the line, adds a pound of Freon. All is well.

Today, around noon I get a message with a photo of the thermostat- it reads 76, set to 68. I offer window ac and I call our guy and wait for him to respond. By the time I hear from him it’s 80 in the house. He can come tomorrow 8am. Asks to turn it off 2 hours then turn back on. She does it. As that’s happening I tell her she can go buy whatever stand up fan she wants and we will pay for it. (Ps All rooms have ceiling fans and there is a finished basement with half bath). She turns it back on 2 hours later- says no air is coming out, the air handler is not moving. Sends photo of breakers, no tripped breaker. She says she is nauseous from the heat. I ask if she wants to stay in a hotel tonight, she said not tonight but if this persists she will need another place to stay.

ANY AND ALL ADVICE IS WELCOME.

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
5y

@Kimberly Carver I think you're getting way too emotionally involved here.

Did you do something to break the A/C? Did you neglect to maintain it? Did you lie to the tenant about it's condition? No! You were doing everything right and it still broke. So why are you panicked?

The temperature is 80 degrees in their house? The majority of the world lives with that all the time and 100% of the world lived like that for thousands of years. Your tenants lost the use of a luxury comfort item through no fault of your own. Do your job and repair/replace it for them as quickly as you can, but don't make this out to be something bigger than it is.

You can't control when items breaks or when a vendor is available to repair/replace. I would have given them a couple window units and then looked for a vendor. It's the weekend, so it may have to wait until Monday. They won't get sick or die from a lack of central A/C. Do your best and make wise choices, just like you would with your own home.

When you apologize profusely or bend over backwards to coddle your tenant (like sitting with them for six hours), it gives them the impression you're trying to cover up a mistake and it shows weakness, not professionalism. Let them know you had it serviced but it still broke, apologize for the inconvenience (once), help them out (within reason), and fix the problem quickly and correctly within the limitations of reality. It's the same process you would follow for your own home, without the apology. :)

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  • Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    You have three situations going on at the same time, need to deal with two of them so you can concentrate on the other.  Get window AC units in there so you can take care of the tenant being hot and you and your wife worrying.  This 3rd issue isn't going to be solved in a day so time to limit the issues on hand.  Sounds like you and your wife are good people and really doing your best for the tenant, congrats on that.  You should be proud of how you are dealing with this even though the results are not what you want.  At this point the tenant should agree, if not, I would insist so that her health is taken care of  and you don't have to stress any more.  That said if she prefers a hotel and you are open to it that is fine, whatever you three work out but if she does do a hotel she is going to stress you out about when she can move back.  I would do what you can to eliminate the stress with the tenant so you can focus on the AC issue.  

    As for the AC, bottom line is you need to get the guys you trust out to look at it and diagnose it.  To many possibilities to be of use over the internet.  From here forward only use guys you trust.

    Once the AC is fixed by guys you trust, you can then deal with the last issue and that is the company you hired.  If it were me, I would try to get both the company I hired and the guys I trust out, whoever can fix first wins, but have the guys you trust give the final thumbs up.  For sure I would give the clowns a chance to fix it so later on when you end up in front of a judge you can say you gave them the chance to fix it, they didn't, so here we are.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
    5y

    I would have called the original company that installed and dealt with them.  Don’t know how they got the tenant’s number from above.  

    Either way, I know of someone who had a new unit installed and inside the condenser was a cracked line where the Freon was leaking out.  Did you just replace the condenser or the blower motor too?   

    If you trust your HVAC guy then he should get it up and running.  Other than that there is nothing more you can do.  

    Too bad the furnaces aren’t the ones that go in the summer and ACs in the winter.  Don’t panic.  It seems that you are doing the right thing.  Call the original installer and see if he can come and fix.  I would not get two different companies to work the same job.  Kills your warranty 

  • Contractor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2021 · 64 posts · 57 votes
    5y

    I’ve been in a similar spot with my first rental property. My tenants moved in August 1st and by the 3rd, the AC unit stopped cooling, despite working perfectly fine since I had purchased the property. Being a remote and first time landlord it was difficult getting the problem fixed even though I had a good idea of what it was. I ended up giving my tenants a week of free rent to offset being a week without AC. In hindsight, this was probably an over reaction but at least it gave me peace of mind. Like @Scott M. mentioned, I would install those window units to at least have cooling. At the end of the day, it’s your property and maintenance isn’t some magic wand that can be waved and have all your problems go away. I would not pay for a tenant to temporarily stay in a hotel either. It’s clear you are making your best effort to do timely repair. Now, speaking as an HVAC contractor, I have a 1 year parts and labor warranty on all of my installs at minimum. The company that installed the unit should make good on their contract. Once they fix the problem, I would have the guy you trust do a once over to make sure everything looks right. I also don’t quote aggressive timelines like “4 hours”. “4 hours” is corner cutting territory- did they braze with nitrogen? Did they flush the line set? Did they pressure test and vacuum the lines before charging? These aren’t questions that can be answered anymore unfortunately. With my experiences I’ve taken the proactive maintenance approach- this year I replaced the hot water heater proactively so I wouldn’t have to deal with this situation. I may be changing out a unit 1 year early but ultimately passing up $100 in “life” is well worth the headache of having to do a replacement in a bind. Good luck and hope you get this sorted soon.

  • Investor · Malakoff, TX · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Offer to give them several window AC units. If they refuse that's their choice and I wouldn't provide anything else.. Have an AC guy you trust come, even if has to wait little while. BTW 77 degrees is the normal temp I keep in my home during summer.

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Eric James sameeee! But 76. Gotta be an awesome even number 🤷‍♀️

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 26 votes
    5y

    whatamess!! 

    FIRST OF ALL, PLEASE TRY NOT TO STRESS ANY MORE!  This DOES stink, but the place didn't burn to the ground and no one murdered anyone in your rental property.  These are good things.  I had a water heater pee all over my property's living area. Then after repairs were completed, despite my best efforts, someone reported smelling mold such that I had to move the tenant out while I dealt with that.  THAT was a health issue.

    I'm not sympathetic that the tenant is saying she's feeling unwell when you offered window units. Either she sucks it up OR she lets you put her up in a hotel.  But declining your offer of window units only to then complain about the heat is a little silly to me.  The other alternative, which would be to deduct some of her rent for the month, as someone said, is a great idea.  

    As for the jacklegs who installed the AC, I agree that I would have dragged them back over there and had my husband present to deal with any snide comments and ensure they took their work more seriously. It's a shame you have to think like that, but it sounds like that's the reality you're dealing with. I'm not sure how much your contacting your regular AC guy might have complicated things if you do ultimately end up in front of a judge (I'm a criminal attorney, so forgive me for not knowing much about civil). But, if I'm not mistaken, all he did was add some freon (right?), which means he didn't do any work on the mechanics of the equipment. If that's the case, I would hope the jacklegs shouldn't be able to claim that the unit was somehow altered before they were given the opportunity to repair it. (I hope that makes sense.)  

    Either way, from the standpoint of getting it working, in light of the fact that you are dealing with an inept or unscrupulous contractor (aka jackleg), I would try to convince the tenants to move out for a day or two while you deal with the jacklegs. The back and forth is legitimately stressful for the tenants, which is the reason you (as a conscientious landlord) are stressed in turn.  Getting them out of the house will buy you time and the ability to focus on having candid conversations and dealings with the people who came out and took half the night to install a simple AC unit.  

    Meanwhile, I would also consider researching whichever agency has authority over these contractors and have their complaint number, as well as the number for the Better Business Bureau cued up on your phone if you need to go that route.  I know these contractors might not be registered and licensed.  But they are under SOMEONE'S authority and should be sobered by the fact that you might call if the problem isn't fixed by a certain time on a certain day. 

    My recommendation: 1) get the tenant out of the house for 2 days (max) (give them a few gift cards to places like UberEats, Chick-Fil-A, Ruby Tuesdays, PeiWei, or Outback Steakhouse (if you want them to love you forever and forget about the nausea, I recommend you go big)....throw in a gift certificate to Cold Stone Creamery (they're hot, right?) and they will be forever grateful their AC broke; 2) call the jacklegs and have a stern conversation with them, explaining that you would like (expect) them to meet you at the property asap. Be pleasant with them until they give you an attitude, then make a note of their off-color comments and tell them what you plan to do next (in terms of reporting and/or suing). 

    my apologies for the long response; I hope some of those thoughts were helpful. I am praying for your peace, first and foremost. I know what it is to have your stomach in knots, but you've got this. Sic your husband on them.  If he's as ticked as he should be that your stomach is in knots, he should be able to deal with the foolishness.  

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Michele V. Thank you for your response! Goal is to be at a place where I am financially free enough with real estate that I can pop on a plane and get a drink with you! I will let you know what happens with the jacklegs...

    Most of all, thank you for your prayers of peace.

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Joe Martella new condenser and new air handler... hindsight is 20/20 but I am definitely regretting not getting it serviced before she moved in.. it was working at the time so we didn’t think of it but will be more proactive in the future

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2016 · 35 posts · 26 votes
    5y

    LOLOL. Look, let me know well in advance; I'm down here working so hard that the moment I get financially free enough to get on a plane I'm outta here.  But I'd leave you a key! :)  YOU ARE ALWAYS WELCOME TO MY PRAYERS FOR PEACE!!  :)  There's enough going on nowadays.  I wish i didn't relate, but I do. Hang in there.  

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Zee Abbas thank you for your response. The promise of four hours, and then it taking 10, is what really made me loose any trust for those guys. I know it makes sense to have them come back but it hard to get past the unprofessionalism—they gave me, the tenant, and even my husband, the heebeegeebees!!

  • Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
    5y

    @Kimberly Carver my other piece of advice to you is to rub this as a business.  Try to take your emotions out of it.  You are making all the right business decisions.  The only thing I would have done differently is call the original installer back.   

    Now, reading everyone else’s advice.  Offering window units resolves the issue.  You don’t need to give the tenant the option of a hotel vs window units.   If you are giving them window units that resolves the problem and any “health issue” the tenant may be experiencing.   You are giving the problem the attention that it needs and seeking reasonable solutions.  

    Once emotions take over you can lose control of the rational thoughts, which can lead to bad business decisions.  

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Joe Martella

    Every time I offer window units she says they “make her too nervous” ... like they are going to fall out or something...

  • Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
    5y

    @Kimberly Carver it is your equipment. If you are installing them and they fall out then she has nothing to worry about. Millions of people have window units. Haven’t really seen any news reports of one falling out the window.

    Bottom line is she doesn’t get the choice. You can put the window units in as a temporary solution. I would make the offer in writing (e-mail/text) so it is on record in case you need it down the road.

    The other solution is a portable AC but those are really expensive. Window units are the way to go

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Joe Martella thank you for your thoughts Joe. In fact, our other homes have window AC.

    I am definitely struggling with the emotional aspect of this and trying hard to keep my feelings in check. I need the reminders that this is business.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    5y

    @Kimberly Carver I think you're getting way too emotionally involved here.

    Did you do something to break the A/C? Did you neglect to maintain it? Did you lie to the tenant about it's condition? No! You were doing everything right and it still broke. So why are you panicked?

    The temperature is 80 degrees in their house? The majority of the world lives with that all the time and 100% of the world lived like that for thousands of years. Your tenants lost the use of a luxury comfort item through no fault of your own. Do your job and repair/replace it for them as quickly as you can, but don't make this out to be something bigger than it is.

    You can't control when items breaks or when a vendor is available to repair/replace. I would have given them a couple window units and then looked for a vendor. It's the weekend, so it may have to wait until Monday. They won't get sick or die from a lack of central A/C. Do your best and make wise choices, just like you would with your own home.

    When you apologize profusely or bend over backwards to coddle your tenant (like sitting with them for six hours), it gives them the impression you're trying to cover up a mistake and it shows weakness, not professionalism. Let them know you had it serviced but it still broke, apologize for the inconvenience (once), help them out (within reason), and fix the problem quickly and correctly within the limitations of reality. It's the same process you would follow for your own home, without the apology. :)

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  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    Repairman was there at 830 sharp. It is back on- he is currently diagnosing what happened to make it go off.

    Tenant just contacted me and said

    Please have him do whatever he needs to make sure this doesn’t happen again; I’m sure you are, just so worried this will happen again

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Joe Martella @Nathan G.

    Refusing ac units and not willing to keep windows open.

    Repairman just finished- a fuse blew on the attic portion of the unit.

    Tenant wants guarantee this will not happen again. Any idea how to word my response!?? Obviously I can not guarantee that!

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Eric James

    In terms of lessons learned, I know a lot of this was out of my control. In hindsight I would have had the unit checked when we did our turnover work.

    I am thinking now about having an update to my lease, so I can point to that for the future. “If central air is out of order window ac will be provided within x hours of reported issue and remain in place pending service call” or something so I can point to the lease if I ever have another tenant who is “worried” by window units and does not want to open the windows (this is a very safe suburban class B neighborhood- I used to live there)

    Not the cause of this problem but for future improvements- Do you have any verbiage in your lease about running the central air at a certain level? This tenant had it on 66 at one point when it was 95 outdoors. I know that is not good for the unit. Does anyone state that ac can not be set at a temp more than 20-25 degrees lower than the outside temp?

    any other suggestions or ways to improve my business are always welcome !

  • Will GastonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Kimberly Carver unfortunately, sometimes it is difficult to get repairs done in a timely manner even if you're a great landlord. I once had a furnace go out on Christmas Eve at 3:30 PM. 

    What would/could you have done differently if it was your primary residence? If the answer is nothing then don't worry about it.

  • Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
    5y

    @Kimberly Carver.  Your guarantee is that if something happens you do you best to get the broken item replaced within reasonable time.  If the tenant doesn’t like it then offer to let them out of the lease and find someone else. 

    Sometimes great relationships have rocky starts.  

  • Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    Hi Kimberly,

    1. They waited around smoking cigarettes until 11:30 pm.... My thought is the Evaporator had frozen up and needed to be thawed out for about 18 hours, and they were just hanging around waiting for that, and the repair may have been needed or not.

    Not saying this was your problem, but this happens sometimes. You can easily tell due to reduced air flow from the vents and the airflow being warm. Maybe they checked that (???) I don't know. I'm just saying that's my first thought because it's common.

    Sometimes they will claim an evaporator cleaning is needed, but often there is too high of a MERV filter (or a very dirty High Merv Filter) for that model furnace.

    Basically the air slows down too much at the filter and the Evaporator freezes up.

    Solution, let it thaw and install correct (or clean filter).

    2.  As to the Freon (or whatever coolant you have in the lines) being low--Possibly...there is not much possibly to it...they measure it with a temp gauge, or a pressure gauge, at one of the lines outside...it's either OK or not...it should not be Maybe.

    3.  If you are uncomfortable with these techs, maybe try another A/C service Tech... look in the reviews online about them, and remember you are not hiring a business, you are getting the knowledge and service of a particular tech... So look for a GOOD Tech....

    Just a story for you: I had (3) certified A/C service techs standing around talking to each other for 45 minutes about why an A/C unit would not cool to 70 inside in 103 degree heat outside when it previously had no trouble do so.

    They put gauges on it, and a multi-meter and could only GUESS the Refrigerant was low.

    They made all kinds of statements that alerted me they didn't know what they were doing (picture the three stooges here).

    I dismissed them, because in talking with them I quickly figured out they knew little about A/C diagnosis, despite being certified.

    As in school, you have A students, B students, C students and D students. 

    I know A/C at an A level because it's a money eater if I don't, and their logic was not logical, it was guesses. 

    I dismissed them (and paid them for the call), and called another Tech, he brought a replacement thermostat and 15 minutes later it was fixed with the proper chilled air temp coming from the vents.

    I told the three of them it was most likely the Thermostat, and they put a multi meter on it and said NO.

    The skill of the Tech makes a difference (as well as their honesty, because if this system is a black box to you--you could easily be told anything, and end up paying a ton more then needed).

    Good Luck!

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    5y

    I had a new unit installed last fall and there was a crimp in the line. After they found the crimp, it turned out the compressor was bad, probably from the crimp impeding flow. If a unit is not cooling properly, turn it off and leave it off. Low coolant means one of two things, either they didn't properly fill in the first place or there is a leak. A leak means it may work for a period of time then stop working until the fluid is filled. That seems like your situation. It is most likely the leak is one of the solder joints where they connect the coolant line either inside or outside. They shouldn't just refill without testing for leaks. The solder joints are the obvious place to check. I would have called back the company that did the work. That is who will warranty the job. That is what I would do. 

    For future reference, wait to have your regular trusted HVAC person do the work. I just tell tenants, I am not going to hire random people, unless they are well known and reputable. Sometimes the one who responds fastest in an emergency is not busy with work for a good reason.

  • Member since 2020 · 119 posts · 56 votes
    5y

    @Joe Splitrock thank you Joe. A fuse had blow on the attic condenser. Is that something you have encountered before? Our guy said a wire moved or something (my husband was there, not me) ....

    I have definitely learned a lesson in patience !! It would have been worth it to wait for someone trusted. I wish I could go back in time!

  • Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 346 posts · 170 votes
    5y

    @Kimberly Carver

    Word of advice is to get an AC technician that you can trust, honest and preferably own his own company. If you call any ac company out there they will tell you to replace the unit when in most cases it’s just a part replacement not a whole AC unit replacement. Find them in offer up.

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Kimberly Carver:

    @Joe Splitrock thank you Joe. A fuse had blow on the attic condenser. Is that something you have encountered before? Our guy said a wire moved or something (my husband was there, not me) ....

    I have definitely learned a lesson in patience !! It would have been worth it to wait for someone trusted. I wish I could go back in time!

     Generally speaking a fuse doesn't just blow. Wires are insulated and if installed properly, that shouldn't be a problem. It could be a fluke, but given the unit was so low on refrigerant, there could be something else going on. Did the service tech check refrigerant level to make sure it has not dropped? Either it wasn't properly filled or it is leaking. If it is leaking, it will have trouble cooling when it gets low and can even damage the compressor. A fuse may blow if the compressor is having issues, so that would be my concern. Have the original installer come back out and explain the third party work you had done. Ask him to check the refrigerant levels. Even if it operates fine all summer, I would have it serviced in the spring when it warms up and have them check to refrigerant. 

    As far as the operating temperature, 67 or 68 degrees is ridiculously low for an AC unit. AC systems are designed and sized for about 20 degrees of cooling, so if it is 100 degrees outside, it should maintain 80 degrees inside. Cooling to 67 or 68 is making the AC system work harder and it costs more money than maintaining at 78 degrees, which is the ideal temperature specified by the department of energy. Obviously she likes it really cold, but make sure she understands it may be hard to hold that temperature if it gets really hot outside. If it was 100 outside, the AC would run 24/7 just to maintain that low of temperature and it still may have trouble even getting that low. 

    Another thing to remind tenants of is that low quality furnace filters need to be changed every month. High quality need to be changed every three months. Failure to do so will damage the HVAC and make it harder to heat/cool. They also need to keep all the vents open and free of blockages, both return and outflow vents.

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