Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2018 · 29 posts · 11 votes
Hi, I got a "criminal complaint" (misdemeanor) from Cleveland Municipal court because my property in Cleveland has "High Grass and Weeds".
I pleaded Not Guilty because the PM confirms it is the tenant's responsibility, and I want her to be accountable.
The Cleveland Court said I have to get an attorney because the home is owned by an LLC. The only reason it's in an LLC is because I used a Self-directed IRA to buy it.
If you know a good and reasonably priced RE attorney for Cleveland, please provide his/her contact info.
Or if you experienced this before, please let me know what you did or wish you did so the outcome would be best for us landlords.
@Mary Paras in my city the property owner is liable for mowing the grass and meeting other city ordinances. This holds landlords accountable for maintaining their property. We usually get a courtesy notice the first time, then are given a few days to remedy. If we don't remedy, the city does it and charges the owner.
Looking at Cleveland city ordinances, it appears they have a similar policy of requesting the owner to remedy or they will remedy and charge the owner. They also mention criminal action, but it seems logical that would be an escalation. Meaning if you were sent notice and didn't remedy or if the problem became reoccurring.
Either way, you are fighting this with the wrong approach. Legally speaking the high grass and weeds are not your tenants responsibility. According to city code it is your responsibility. Your lease may make it their responsibility, but ensuring they fulfill that responsibility is your responsibility.
My advice, at first notice of any city violation, remedy immediately - that day. Contact the city, apologize and let them know it has been remedied. Put the tenant on notice and check up on them to ensure they are not letting the problem happen again.
Misdemeanor is pretty harsh, so it leads me to believe this is not the first offense or they are trying to crack down on out of state investors. You have a right to invest there, but not a right to let your properties go to crap in the process.
Can you mitigate this by simply cutting the grass and weeds? That seems far less expensive than retaining an attorney. Then exercise your lease options to remove the tenant as soon as you can for not holding up their responsibilities under the lease.
Get someone to mow and weed wack today. The fire department doesn't care about your lease and you could lose your insurance if this goes on. Hopefully your lease has language which fines the tenant. I don't know a low cost attorney there, and one may charge you $5000 retainer to start.
@Mary Paras in my city the property owner is liable for mowing the grass and meeting other city ordinances. This holds landlords accountable for maintaining their property. We usually get a courtesy notice the first time, then are given a few days to remedy. If we don't remedy, the city does it and charges the owner.
Looking at Cleveland city ordinances, it appears they have a similar policy of requesting the owner to remedy or they will remedy and charge the owner. They also mention criminal action, but it seems logical that would be an escalation. Meaning if you were sent notice and didn't remedy or if the problem became reoccurring.
Either way, you are fighting this with the wrong approach. Legally speaking the high grass and weeds are not your tenants responsibility. According to city code it is your responsibility. Your lease may make it their responsibility, but ensuring they fulfill that responsibility is your responsibility.
My advice, at first notice of any city violation, remedy immediately - that day. Contact the city, apologize and let them know it has been remedied. Put the tenant on notice and check up on them to ensure they are not letting the problem happen again.
Misdemeanor is pretty harsh, so it leads me to believe this is not the first offense or they are trying to crack down on out of state investors. You have a right to invest there, but not a right to let your properties go to crap in the process.
I need to plead guilty if I just cut the grass and pay the fine ($500 for an LLC). It's a criminal complaint; so, if a job, etc. asks me if I committed a crime before, I have to say yes.
@Joe Splitrock Thanks, I will read info in the link. This is the first time I got a notice from city and it's already a citation. I didn't even know this is a crime in Cleveland since I'm out-of-state.
Technical question but are you being sued or is the llc. If it is the business I feel you didn’t commit a crime your business entity did. This issue has to be ongoing for it to get this far remedy the situation and non renew or evict ASAP. You mentioned your pm they need to be paying more attention to your properties and making sure your tenant is following the lease, it may be time for a new one.
@Caroline Gerardo Thanks. Yes, my lease has something that says I can collect fines from tenant. I used attorneys to evict tenants from my Phoenix AZ property, and all of them cost less than $1,000 total each (one during the eviction moratorium, so, it was more complex). So far, the Cleveland OH court just wants the attorney to "physically file forms."
@Adam Martin Thanks, Adam. They are suing my LLC. Cleveland Court's reason for requiring me to get an attorney is because my property is under an LLC. It is a single-member LLC though, because it's an IRA LLC.
@Joe Splitrock Thanks, I will read info in the link. This is the first time I got a notice from city and it's already a citation. I didn't even know this is a crime in Cleveland since I'm out-of-state.
I did a little more reading on this and apparently there are several cities in Ohio that will issue misdemeanor violations for your first offense. Some even have jail time for a second offense. This is pretty scary. I wouldn't use "I didn't even know this is a crime" as your defense. You may need to contact a criminal defense attorney, since this is not a real estate matter. Criminally prosecuting an LLC owner, when there is a tenant responsible for lawn care and local PM managing seems like a case you could argue and win. In reality I doubt the court has time for jury trials for situations like this. Heck, people were burning and looting last year and most of them never even got charges brought against them. It seems 8" grass is less of a threat to public safety than that. Odds are good an attorney could get this plead down to a fine for first offense. Still this is ridiculous and poses an ongoing threat for Cleveland property owners.
I would be interested to see what @James Wise has to say about this and I would take his advice over mine.
@Joe Splitrock Thanks, I will read info in the link. This is the first time I got a notice from city and it's already a citation. I didn't even know this is a crime in Cleveland since I'm out-of-state.
I did a little more reading on this and apparently there are several cities in Ohio that will issue misdemeanor violations for your first offense. Some even have jail time for a second offense. This is pretty scary. I wouldn't use "I didn't even know this is a crime" as your defense. You may need to contact a criminal defense attorney, since this is not a real estate matter. Criminally prosecuting an LLC owner, when there is a tenant responsible for lawn care and local PM managing seems like a case you could argue and win. In reality I doubt the court has time for jury trials for situations like this. Heck, people were burning and looting last year and most of them never even got charges brought against them. It seems 8" grass is less of a threat to public safety than that. Odds are good an attorney could get this plead down to a fine for first offense. Still this is ridiculous and poses an ongoing threat for Cleveland property owners.
I would be interested to see what @James Wise has to say about this and I would take his advice over mine.
Whether or not the lease says the tenant is responsible for the grass it's ultimately going on the property owner from a city's perspective. If it's owned in an LLC the fine is $500. If the house is owned in your personal name I think it's like $50. Things like this are the risks we take on when we enter the rental property business. If ya'll think this is crazy you should read the FAQ on my website that explains why we don't let tenants assume the responsibility of the water bills in the Cleveland market. That'll make your head spin.
Moral of the story, ya can't change the rules of the game folks. But what you can do is learn them and play accordingly.
@Mary Paras Well, work with the city because you can not go against a townhall and come winner. Next, do what I did, include the lawn care service in your rent and adjust the rent accordingly. I pay about $50 each time they cut and have that built into the rent. Property stays immaculate, edges properly trimmed and looking good.
Hi, I got a "criminal complaint" (misdemeanor) from Cleveland Municipal court because my property in Cleveland has "High Grass and Weeds".
I pleaded Not Guilty because the PM confirms it is the tenant's responsibility, and I want her to be accountable.
The Cleveland Court said I have to get an attorney because the home is owned by an LLC. The only reason it's in an LLC is because I used a Self-directed IRA to buy it.
If you know a good and reasonably priced RE attorney for Cleveland, please provide his/her contact info.
Or if you experienced this before, please let me know what you did or wish you did so the outcome would be best for us landlords.
Thanks you!
Hire a mower for $25 per mow every other week, then charge it to the tenant.
Thanks James and Joe. I am trying to find an attorney. If I do not get recommendations from Bigger Pockets, Google has some I can contact. I am planning to add lawn care in the rent when the tenant's lease is due for renewal end of this year as James said, and I am already paying for water and sewerage directly. I'm also thinking of not renewing her lease. She pays rent but does not take care of the property, even the interior. I also got multiple nasty letters from the gas company because she is not giving access when Gas Co needs to service meter. Of course I tell the PM to tell her. Anyway as people say, we learn something new everyday!
@Mary Paras simply get it cleaned up, show the court, pay a very small fine, and pass it on to the tenants, . Also just have the PM co do it, its only about $60 bux for 6 months, and pass the fee on to the tenant,,,,,
Thanks Bob. The fine for me may be $500 because it's under a single member LLC. I'm still willing to pay $500 fine and get reimbursement from tenant, as long as I don't get a criminal record. Based on court documents I've received so far, seems like if I pay the fine, I have to plead guilty to a criminal offense. Hopefully, I can just clean-up lawn, pay a fine and just move on. But the criminal record is concerning because it might show-up and cause major issues for me in my future.
I agree, call some handyman service or low-level lawn care company and get it done for 40 or 50 bucks, or whatever it costs in Cleveland. Send the client a bill and let them know that he will use an attorney if it goes any further. Send a copy of it to your property management company as well. Ask them not to let it happen again in the future.
@Matt M. Yeah, now I know what you mean about investing out-of-state. But, I also have investments 2 hours away. Those are doing very well because they are also in Southern CA and I know the important rules and culture, in general.
@Joe Splitrock@Mary Paras the reason why I said the attorney will want a $5000 retainer is because this is not just a fix it ticket. It is criminal and it will show on Mary's name. Even though the title is in a LLC they already know who owns the LLC and if title was transferred from Mary to LLC even more chance Mary might get more than a fine. Mary I hope you have now by the end of the day cleared the weeds, paid an attorney to efile tonight your apology (not excuse) to the judge with photographs and an act of contrition. Get the tenant out. The tenant got several notices on the door that they threw away. This won't be the last problem with the tenant.
@Caroline Gerardo. Got it, thanks Caroline! I requested the lawn to be cleaned up shortly after I got the citation, but I have not chosen an attorney yet. I also agree with you on not renewing tenant's lease that is up in a few months.