Would you rent to them?

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Would you rent to them?

Kar Sun
Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes

Nice A class property in a great location. Part of HOA. Priced slightly below the market.

Prospective tenants: Completely tatted nurse, her boyfriend who has "his own business making lots of money" and his 3 children from  previous relationship(s). He shares their custody so they are expected to visit 2 weekends per month.

They came in, opened the door without ringing the bell, the man and his children did not greet me, they went upstairs, in 3 minutes they were there children were running and jumping like mad becasue the flooring was making all sort of sounds. After they looked at the place for 3 minutes the man and his children left and the tatted girlfriend kept repeating "the place is cute". She wanteed to know how many apps I already have and the conversation was awkward and unnatural. These 3 children are not related to her and she kept repeating that the present landlords treats them as "dependents". I do not know about the dependents because I am not the IRS but they are either guests or occupants per my contract. I am uncertain why I should allow these children to live with someone who is unrelated to them and be potentially liable in a future for their well being. Overall this couple seems to have too many complex issues and I will let them look somewhere else. I did not like their characters and I do not believe this will be a good relationship. Too many red flags. And yes, I really do not get a good feeling about tatted head to toe women and people with weird hair colors and piercings. These all point to psychological issues.  I do not need social justice warriors in my place. 

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Scott M.
Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
5y

Hey Kar, you may want to reread your post in a day or two.  It really doesn't matter if I would rent to them or not, you clearly, and I mean clearly do not want to rent to them.  No judgement here by the way, you should trust your gut and your gut is clearly telling you that you should not rent to them. 

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  • Scott M.
    Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    Hey Kar, you may want to reread your post in a day or two.  It really doesn't matter if I would rent to them or not, you clearly, and I mean clearly do not want to rent to them.  No judgement here by the way, you should trust your gut and your gut is clearly telling you that you should not rent to them. 

    15Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y

    I wouldn't. Not just because of the Tats (although that would be an issue for me as well) but their lack of respect is very telling. And I bet when you see the P&Ls/Tax returns on this guys amazing business, it becomes less amazing.

    Don't waste your time, you're running a business here.....right?

    5Reply
  • Scott Mac
    Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y

    I had a nurse who had a lot of tattoos help me before...she did a good job...I was grateful for her help.

    13Reply
  • Kar Sun
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes
    5y

    Thanks for your replies. I am certain of my assessment of these people but I am hoping this can help another landlord to read through the replies posted here. This is why landlords should never accepts applications tenants unseen. The women was fine and passed all my pre-qualification questions. However, no pre-qual questions show person's character better than seeing them face to face. Must see them in person. 

    2Reply
  • Kar Sun
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Scott Mac:

    I had a nurse who had a lot of tattoos help me before...she did a good job...I was grateful for her help.

    She did a good job in a hospital where she gets her paycheck. This does not tell me a complete story about her. She did a "good job" because, in part, her paycheck depends on it. I did a good job as well by eliminating someone from a tenant pool who is disrespectful and in addition seemed to have made not so good decisions in her life (tatts, shady boyfriends with lots of children). At this stage of her life (over 30) where she makes good money, she should be owning a property or at least have a relationship that is healthy. People who make bad decisions attract similar kind and are  usually in specific situations that do not match where they should be at their age. Everything in life is a risk. And I am not willing to take on this risk. 

    4Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y

    I run the background check. People with higher credit scores pay their bills and are more likely to take care of things.

    I suspect their background checks will be revealing.

    3Reply
  • Kar Sun
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:

    I run the background check. People with higher credit scores pay their bills and are more likely to take care of things.

    I suspect their background checks will be revealing.

    Good point. But honestly I do not even want to run anything on them. I do a pre-screen, the based on that I offer an appointment. Running a background means they have to fill out an app and pay for their checks to third parties and then whine if I do not accept them. I do not care to do that at all. I disable application link on all my properties unless prospective tenants seem to be a good fit. They can contact me by phone or email prior to that.

    2Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Kar Sun:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:

    I run the background check. People with higher credit scores pay their bills and are more likely to take care of things.

    I suspect their background checks will be revealing.

    Good point. But honestly I do not even want to run anything on them. I do a pre-screen, the based on that I offer an appointment. Running a background means they have to fill out an app and pay for their checks to third parties and then whine if I do not accept them. I do not care to do that at all.

    This will minimize the chance they say that you discriminated against them.

    I would just say you are welcome to apply.

    Then if they don't qualify, Say I'm sorry I had a more qualified applicant get the property.

    1Reply
  • Kar Sun
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:
    Originally posted by @Kar Sun:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:

    I run the background check. People with higher credit scores pay their bills and are more likely to take care of things.

    I suspect their background checks will be revealing.

    Good point. But honestly I do not even want to run anything on them. I do a pre-screen, the based on that I offer an appointment. Running a background means they have to fill out an app and pay for their checks to third parties and then whine if I do not accept them. I do not care to do that at all.

    This will minimize the chance they say that you discriminated against them.

    I would just say you are welcome to apply.

    Then if they don't qualify, Say I'm sorry I had a more qualified applicant get the property.

    There is no discrimination based on federal guidelines. I did not like their characters. Just like when you get interviewed by a prospective employer they do not have to hire you if you are not a fit. They do not even have to give a reason to you. They are not a fit. This is my property and I do not need to explain to someone that I do not like their characters based on their life decisions. Enough already of this discrimination myth. I am myself a minority.

    1Reply
  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Kar Sun:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:
    Originally posted by @Kar Sun:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:

    I run the background check. People with higher credit scores pay their bills and are more likely to take care of things.

    I suspect their background checks will be revealing.

    Good point. But honestly I do not even want to run anything on them. I do a pre-screen, the based on that I offer an appointment. Running a background means they have to fill out an app and pay for their checks to third parties and then whine if I do not accept them. I do not care to do that at all.

    This will minimize the chance they say that you discriminated against them.

    I would just say you are welcome to apply.

    Then if they don't qualify, Say I'm sorry I had a more qualified applicant get the property.

    There is no discrimination based on federal guidelines. I did not like their characters. Just like when you get interviewed by a prospective employer they do not have to hire you if you are not a fit. They do not even have to give a reason to you. They are not a fit. This is my property and I do not need to explain to someone that I do not like their characters based on their life decisions. Enough already of this discrimination myth. I am myself a minority.

    I just do everything to minimize any chance of someone making this claim.

    1Reply
  • Kar Sun
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:
    Originally posted by @Kar Sun:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:
    Originally posted by @Kar Sun:
    Originally posted by @John Underwood:

    I run the background check. People with higher credit scores pay their bills and are more likely to take care of things.

    I suspect their background checks will be revealing.

    Good point. But honestly I do not even want to run anything on them. I do a pre-screen, the based on that I offer an appointment. Running a background means they have to fill out an app and pay for their checks to third parties and then whine if I do not accept them. I do not care to do that at all.

    This will minimize the chance they say that you discriminated against them.

    I would just say you are welcome to apply.

    Then if they don't qualify, Say I'm sorry I had a more qualified applicant get the property.

    There is no discrimination based on federal guidelines. I did not like their characters. Just like when you get interviewed by a prospective employer they do not have to hire you if you are not a fit. They do not even have to give a reason to you. They are not a fit. This is my property and I do not need to explain to someone that I do not like their characters based on their life decisions. Enough already of this discrimination myth. I am myself a minority.

    I just do everything to minimize any chance of someone making this claim.

    My chances are nil. But there are always mentally ill people out there hoping that they can force their way into your life. What would claim be exactly? I really am not interested to move this discussion into a topic that is not a part of this discussion. But you are welcome to conduct your business how you see fit for yourself. 

    0Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Kar Sun  I wouldn't rent to them based on the child behavior and the lack of attempt to contain that behavior.  As far as tattoos  I have seen them become more and more mainstream in certain age groups. I judge now less on this then I did in the past. I see a number of professionals with tattoos. That said having tattoos is not a protected class.  

    You say "I am uncertain why I should allow these children to live with someone who is unrelated to them and be potentially liable in a future for their well being."  How they choose to structure their family isn't your  issue as a landlord and you are not liable for the future well being of these children. Who is living there is the issue  for you, related kids or not. How many people, how often etc. 

    I do think you make an important point about interacting with prospective tenants in person but focus on behaviors and relevant income issues. Unnamed businesses vaguely referred to that make lots of money don't say legal income to me.   I would give an application if they push just so I have a better record of turning them down and why. 

    1Reply
  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    My red flag was raised with the live in bedmate who stated he "has his own business making lots of money".   What the heck does that mean and what kind of "business" is he in.

    As for tatts; I don't like them and I always think how they will look on someone as they get older and the skin starts to sag.  I especially dislike a woman who looks like she is a walking billboard for...whatever.   I realize that this habit is certainly popular right now though.  I think there are just some who have to get more and more of these put on their bodies.

    I once had someone come to look at one of my rental houses who worked in a tattoo parlor.  My first thought when I saw him was that he took his pay out on tattoos.  Honestly, he had them on his forehead, his eyebrows, his ears, his chin, his neck and EVERY body part I was able to view in someone wearing a short sleeve shirt and shorts.  I'm not sure what the body parts covered with clothing contained but I can guess.   I've never seen anyone with that many and frankly, he looked pretty scary.

    Ironically he mentioned if my house was in a "safe" neighborhood because the way he drove over he thought he went through "the hood".  I thought "the way you look you would likely scare off ANY burglar so what the heck are you worried about?"

    At any rate if you have a bad feeling about this couple (and the "money business" of the boyfriend plus what sounds like 3 high energy children ready to wreck your house would worry me more) then find a way not to continue with their application process.

    2Reply
  • Kar Sun
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Gail K.:

    My red flag was raised with the live in bedmate who stated he "has his own business making lots of money".   What the heck does that mean and what kind of "business" is he in.

    As for tatts; I don't like them and I always think how they will look on someone as they get older and the skin starts to sag.  I especially dislike a woman who looks like she is a walking billboard for...whatever.   I realize that this habit is certainly popular right now though.  I think there are just some who have to get more and more of these put on their bodies.

    I once had someone come to look at one of my rental houses who worked in a tattoo parlor.  My first thought when I saw him was that he took his pay out on tattoos.  Honestly, he had them on his forehead, his eyebrows, his ears, his chin, his neck and EVERY body part I was able to view in someone wearing a short sleeve shirt and shorts.  I'm not sure what the body parts covered with clothing contained but I can guess.   I've never seen anyone with that many and frankly, he looked pretty scary.

    Ironically he mentioned if my house was in a "safe" neighborhood because the way he drove over he thought he went through "the hood".  I thought "the way you look you would likely scare off ANY burglar so what the heck are you worried about?"

    At any rate if you have a bad feeling about this couple (and the "money business" of the boyfriend plus what sounds like 3 high energy children ready to wreck your house would worry me more) then find a way not to continue with their application process.

    Thanks for your input.

    I do not necessarily agree with you on everythng you said but you did have a few good points.

    I would be responsible for the children if she does something to them as this woman is not related to them and I have the knowledge of that.

    Their family matters are not my business but if people live at my property it would be.

    Boyfriend and a girlfried are considered legally roommates.

    So I won't take a chance to have minors in a roommates contract.

    Nobody will be pushing for the application.

    They are not a good fit.

    And that is that.

    0Reply
  • Jason Elkins
    Investor · Lexington, SC · Member since 2020 · 13 posts · 5 votes
    5y

    It's your show and you monkeys.   Tattoos and family situations are a personal thing.  


    In my mind, if they can pass a background and credit check (which they pay for in the application process), give references (that are actually checked), submit a complete application, submit the last twelve months of bank statements (which show the rent paid previously), and can come up with the deposit (first and last month's rent), then let's move forward. 

    1Reply
  • Kar Sun
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jason Elkins:

    It's your show and you monkeys.   Tattoos and family situations are a personal thing.  


    In my mind, if they can pass a background and credit check (which they pay for in the application process), give references (that are actually checked), submit a complete application, submit the last twelve months of bank statements (which show the rent paid previously), and can come up with the deposit (first and last month's rent), then let's move forward. 

    Thanks for your perspective.

    If you interview for a job and your resume is perfect and you have all the skills it does not mean the employer will hire you.

    Same thing here.

    I do not want to deal with the people that do not have basic decency and good manners.

    And I do not like tatted women with a chip on their shoulder.

    If their outside is messy just think what is hapenning in their mind.

    These people are trouble makers.

    I do judge a book by its cover.

    Period.

    1Reply
  • Kar Sun
    OP
    Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Gail K.:

    My red flag was raised with the live in bedmate who stated he "has his own business making lots of money".   What the heck does that mean and what kind of "business" is he in.

    As for tatts; I don't like them and I always think how they will look on someone as they get older and the skin starts to sag.  I especially dislike a woman who looks like she is a walking billboard for...whatever.   I realize that this habit is certainly popular right now though.  I think there are just some who have to get more and more of these put on their bodies.

    I once had someone come to look at one of my rental houses who worked in a tattoo parlor.  My first thought when I saw him was that he took his pay out on tattoos.  Honestly, he had them on his forehead, his eyebrows, his ears, his chin, his neck and EVERY body part I was able to view in someone wearing a short sleeve shirt and shorts.  I'm not sure what the body parts covered with clothing contained but I can guess.   I've never seen anyone with that many and frankly, he looked pretty scary.

    Ironically he mentioned if my house was in a "safe" neighborhood because the way he drove over he thought he went through "the hood".  I thought "the way you look you would likely scare off ANY burglar so what the heck are you worried about?"

    At any rate if you have a bad feeling about this couple (and the "money business" of the boyfriend plus what sounds like 3 high energy children ready to wreck your house would worry me more) then find a way not to continue with their application process.

    good points. he did a typical diversion asking if the place was safe so you would think positively of him. honestly some people think that they are able to outsmart everyone. all we have to do is just to open our eyes and ears and observe.

    0Reply
  • David Rivas
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2019 · 3 posts · 6 votes
    5y

    @Kar Sun

    There's nothing wrong with you judging a book by it's cover, that is your choice. But I would keep in mind that there are so many people reading these posts that you never know how someone (as myself) will take some of the comments you made regarding tattoos. Not that you care what anyone thinks, but you'd be surprised how without even knowing it you can burn bridges and opportunities to network with fellow REI all because of how some of the comments come across. I am obviously heavily tatted and own my tattoo studio, along with a few other businesses and I would hate to be targeted, stereotyped or red flagged by someone simply because of how I look. But I also understood that was a possibility when I first started getting tattooed.

    All your other red flags I agree with, just not that particular comment.

    Best of luck.

    5Reply
  • Nancy P.
    Naperville, IL · Member since 2018 · 330 posts · 357 votes
    5y

    Perfectly said @David Rivas.  NO ONE is telling you that you are wrong, yet you are being defensive, OP.   I would challenge you to find a single successful lawsuit where a landlord is responsible for children in his or her property just because he or she knows a non-parent lives there.  It seems to me you worry too little about a discrimination claim (I see a family size complaint being a possibility myself) and too much about something you could not be held liable for.  (letting children stay with a parent and his girlfriend.)   I have a question.  If people over 30 with good jobs "should be" owning property, does that mean you wish to rent to people in the 18-30 age range?  Just curious.  

    3Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y

    We all have our reasons for being, reasons for everything we do. We are all judging constantly. It's human nature. The OP has his own set of parameters and boundaries that he feels comfortable with, so let him use them to guide him in his business decisions...it's his money on the table after all.....

    3Reply
  • Nancy P.
    Naperville, IL · Member since 2018 · 330 posts · 357 votes
    5y

    I am 100% fine with his rejecting these people based on his criteria.  He just seems to want to snipe at everyone who disagrees with him even in the slightest.  Not sure what his point is unless he was hoping to be admired for his decisions- which might backfire on him -as David Rivas said.

    4Reply
  • Trisha Mauer
    Attorney · Marin County, CA · Member since 2021 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    5y

    Instincts are always a great guide, so I agree with the others and go with your gut.  Just a side note, some states (among them, California where I live) have very aggressive anti-discrimination laws for landlords and include things like physical appearance, familial status, and if they have children under 18.  

    So I would be mindful of that (again, depending on where you live), because there are trolls out there who apply for jobs or housing while intentionally hoping they don't get it so they can sue.  I doubt that's the case here, but if you don't rent to them I'd document concrete reasons why, both to them and in your own notes.  

    *This isn't legal advice. Always consult with an attorney if you need legal advice.

    2Reply
  • Travis Frenchak
    Investor · Butler, PA · Member since 2014 · 130 posts · 114 votes
    5y

    This is 2021, I didn’t know we still viewed tats as an indication of a persons character.  

    10Reply
  • Robert Williams
    New to Real Estate · Joliet, IL · Member since 2021 · 89 posts · 135 votes
    5y

    @Kar Sun Since it’s A class and underpriced, you shouldn’t have any problem finding the perfect tenant. Since you see red flags, give it a hard pass. Judging by the fact that you are even dealing with this, makes it seem like you don’t have many applicants. If this is the case, it may not be as sweet as you think. Maybe try doing some intel to get a true picture of where you stand. Definitely hope you find what you are looking for!

    1Reply
  • Chris Pasternak
    Real Estate Broker · Pueblo, CO · Member since 2013 · 368 posts · 303 votes
    5y

    I don't trust people with no profile picture or pictures of their kids or a cartoon ; )

    1Reply
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