Investor · Everywhere, USA · Member since 2016 · 69 posts · 19 votes
Hello BP-California!
I'm a newbie from Utah planning on moving to California (northern) in the next few months and was planning on house hacking for my first purchase. But then........ my father (who is an experienced investor in Southern Utah) told me to be sure and see if California's laws are landlord or tenant friendly before I dive into the deep end.
So what is y'all's experience with this?
Is this something I should be concerned with? If I get a bunch of horror stories back I've also thought to live-in-flip instead, in which case I obviously would not be dealing with tenants haha.
Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
9y
I've always heard that California in general is very pro-tenant when it comes to evictions, but I didn't have any firsthand experience to know whether or not that was actually true since I've never had to evict a tenant (though I've come close). In any event, I thought it was important to find out how the process actually works and whether or not it was as bad as people seemed to think.
So, a while back, I actually went to my local courthouse and sat through an entire day of eviction hearings. I watched all different types of hearings (i.e. landlords represented by attorneys, landlords not represented by attorneys, uncontested evictions, as well as evictions contested by the tenant both with and without witnesses on their side, etc). However, in every case, the judge seemed to listen to both sides and reached the same conclusion I would have had I been in her shoes. She was very reasonable.
My main takeaways were that evictions aren't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be. In fact, they were fairly easy and quick. The judge said she is required to hold these hearings within 20 days of the eviction process being filed. If the landlord wins the case (and the landlord won every single case that I watched), then the judge said it usually takes the sheriff about another 2 weeks to remove the evicted tenant (i.e. do the lockout).
So we're talking about 4-5 weeks total for an average eviction. Keep in mind there are attorneys out there who specialize in helping tenants delay the inevitable in eviction hearings, so obviously if you run into that type of situation it could take longer. I also don't doubt that other counties could be different, and certainly some judges may not be as fair. But that is just as likely anywhere.
Here's some more resources on the subject if you're interested:
Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
9y
I've always heard that California in general is very pro-tenant when it comes to evictions, but I didn't have any firsthand experience to know whether or not that was actually true since I've never had to evict a tenant (though I've come close). In any event, I thought it was important to find out how the process actually works and whether or not it was as bad as people seemed to think.
So, a while back, I actually went to my local courthouse and sat through an entire day of eviction hearings. I watched all different types of hearings (i.e. landlords represented by attorneys, landlords not represented by attorneys, uncontested evictions, as well as evictions contested by the tenant both with and without witnesses on their side, etc). However, in every case, the judge seemed to listen to both sides and reached the same conclusion I would have had I been in her shoes. She was very reasonable.
My main takeaways were that evictions aren't nearly as bad as some people make them out to be. In fact, they were fairly easy and quick. The judge said she is required to hold these hearings within 20 days of the eviction process being filed. If the landlord wins the case (and the landlord won every single case that I watched), then the judge said it usually takes the sheriff about another 2 weeks to remove the evicted tenant (i.e. do the lockout).
So we're talking about 4-5 weeks total for an average eviction. Keep in mind there are attorneys out there who specialize in helping tenants delay the inevitable in eviction hearings, so obviously if you run into that type of situation it could take longer. I also don't doubt that other counties could be different, and certainly some judges may not be as fair. But that is just as likely anywhere.
Here's some more resources on the subject if you're interested:
Investor · Ventura, CA · Member since 2016 · 264 posts · 70 votes
9y
I just completed an eviction in California. My thoughts on the process is that as long as you hire a competent attorney and follow all the rules you're good. For non payment of rent for month of March we went to court April 6. The idiot demanded a trial and what it came down to was since he didn't pay rent he had to leave. Sheriff came two weeks later. I did pay extra to include any people he might have living with him not on the lease.
Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
Justin Koopmans California? Landlord friendly? I think most California owners just fell off of their chairs. No, it's not. The closer you get to the metro epicenters the worse it is. I have friends in SF (near UCSF) that refuse to rent out their second unit. They rent the first to their parents and are willing to forgo thousands of dollars a month (even with a property manager) because of the perceived risk, stories from friends who own and rent their second units, etc. It's not as bad in Orange County, not as bad in San Diego, so their are some "less bad" spots.
Investor · Everywhere, USA · Member since 2016 · 69 posts · 19 votes
9y
@Andrew Johnson, are you yourself a buy and holder? What would you recommend for someone like myself who is going to move to Northern California and wants to jump in the game?
Investor · Everywhere, USA · Member since 2016 · 69 posts · 19 votes
9y
To clarify, I would be moving to a rural area, Amador county to be exact, closer to San Joaquin county where @Kyle J. is active. So I'm glad I'm getting different perspectives here.
Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
I buy-and-hold but not in California. If you do, it's smart to plan/hope/investment around appreciation and prop 13 advantages with a very long time horizon. At least that's my take on it. I grew up with buy-and-hold in California. Made more sense (to me) to get multifamily commercial properties in another state for the same "entry price" as many nice SFR areas here. But I'm a sample size of "1 person" so don't take my word as gospel by any stretch of the imagination.
Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
A good rule of thumb is the more liberal the state, the more tenant friendly they are.
I'll let you guess about California based on that.
Yet another reason I buy in Texas
I buy-and-hold but not in California. If you do, it's smart to plan/hope/investment around appreciation and prop 13 advantages with a very long time horizon. At least that's my take on it. I grew up with buy-and-hold in California. Made more sense (to me) to get multifamily commercial properties in another state for the same "entry price" as many nice SFR areas here. But I'm a sample size of "1 person" so don't take my word as gospel by any stretch of the imagination.
Right makes sense. That's what I am noticing as I run some of these numbers on properties there. Hmmmm.. Lots to think about.
Rental Property Investor · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
@Justin Koopmans There are some areas of California that are just really hard to make into an investment. So this is how I plan to use creativity to make my primary residence an investment during the 2 to 3 years I live in it.
I am doing a combination of a live-in flip and a house hack in California. I close on a house in Burbank, California in the next week or so. I will be building out the attic and thus converting a two bedroom, two bath house into a four bedroom, three bath house. The house also has a guesthouse in the backyard that I will be renting as a short-term rental.
Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
I'll take "tenant friendly" California real estate over any other state every day of the week. I have tiny 2 bedroom single family houses I bought here in 2008 for $50,000 that are now worth over $200K. 9 years and 400+% appreciation, yeah I'll deal with a 2 month eviction process all day for those kinds of gains. No problem.
Also, evictions need to be handled properly. Sure, tenants can pull some tricks and cause delays, but all those tricks also have proper answers which deal with them. Get a good eviction lawyer and you'll have no worries.
The best answer is to just find good, collectible tenants. That means tenants with stability and good jobs. The horror stories you hear are mostly desperate, broke wannabe landlords who took the first person with a heartbeat and a wad of cash as a tenant and did zero background checks.
If you can't afford to keep it vacant, you can't afford to keep it.
If by the time you do a background check, a credit check, employment verification, a deposit, referrals from previous landlords, and a personal interview you're still having to evict people, you're doing something wrong. @Aaron Mazzrillo nailed it on the head.
Professional · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 67 posts · 34 votes
9y
Agree with @Aaron Mazzrillo, if the eviction process is handled correctly, it shouldn't take more than two months. Lawyers (laws) are there for that.
That being said, what @Kyle J. did (sitting in his local courthouse during eviction hearings)should be a regular practice among investor. Many people don't think about it, but courts are public and very open. Take one Friday afternoon to go there, and you'll learn two things:
-Judges operate within the law and "with good judgment." There is no legal or political "impasse."
-How to prepare and organized yourself, so those "horror" situation never happen.
Also, lawyers can do more when the issue at hand has been carefully prepared by the landlord beforehand.
Combine that with those "creatives" ways mention in this thread, eviction is not a matter of "tenant-friendly" or "landlord-friendly" but more about planned logistics and straight legal know-how.
Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y
On more than one occasion I have been praised by the judge (in front of the defecant) for taking risk and providing affordable housing to people. The eviction before last (December-ish) the judge looked at the three defecants and said, "What I see here are three leeches." That doesn't sound so tenant friendly to me.
So, follow the rules, make sure your paperwork is in order, don't do retaliatory dumb stuff and you'll have no problems. The #1 reason I see landlords get tossed out of eviction court is bad paperwork, improper service, evicting for excess fees (late fees are not allowed, only unpaid rent) and other typically dumb things like that. Then they go on some public forum and whine that California is too tenant friendly.
I also highly recommend the California Eviction Handbook by Leigh Robinson. It is very helpful and if you're serious about getting into this business, do your first one or two evictions yourself. You'll learn a lot. Then, hire them out to the lawyer. That was the advice I was given, and it is what I did, and now do.
I find it quite funny that people get into property management and expect no loss. EVERY business has loss. It is part of being in business. Budget for it and you'll do just fine.