What are your best practices and advice when flipping in Boston?

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What are your best practices and advice when flipping in Boston?

Hovig C.
Worcester, MA · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 1 vote

Greetings Bigger Pockets Community!

Along with my business partner, I've been doing flips in Central, MA for the better part of a decade. We've learned lots of the building codes, regulations, rent and valuation prices and lots of management skills along the way.

Recently a property in Downtown Boston came up on your radar (1st floor commercial, 2nd-5th residential) and it's a larger project than we've worked on before. It's also in the very high density Back Bay neighborhood and we just wanted to pick peoples' brains about what to look out for and what regulations or best practices would be best to utilize.

Your response can be from any angle such as working with contractors, finding rental comps and tenants, Boston-specific building codes, etc. Basically we just wanted to tap some knowledge on here about what to look out for and how to add value in this condo slash commercial buildout.  

For example, one specific question that came up was about sprinkler systems and when they are necessary. But overall, we wanted to get an impression from you guys about what we "don't know that we don't know" in this particular market expansion.

Thanks!
Hovig

1Reply
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Most Popular Reply

Jason Turgeon
Realtor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 244 posts · 275 votes
7y

City of Boston ISD is a horror show. They are completely underwater at 1010 Mass Ave (the ISD location) and you can expect long delays for everything. They'll need every one of their allowable 30 days to review your plans. You may need to visit them a dozen times to get your fire suppression system signed off. You pull one inspection for electrical, another for building, a 3rd for plumbing, you go to City Hall to get a dumpster permit ($20 per parking space per day, it adds up in a hurry), you'll need police details for anything that blocks traffic, if you cross a sidewalk with anything bigger than a shovel  you'll need a bond that can only be obtained by crossing the street, taking an elevator up 5 flights of stairs, and giving someone $100 cash. And absolutely no one you deal with is ever happy. The permitting staff in the city are some of the most miserable human beings on the planet. And that's just the City. You haven't yet dealt with the NIMBYs at the Back Bay Neighborhood Association, the contractors who charge double their normal rate to put up with traffic and daily parking tickets on their trucks and the higher costs of everything, the neighbors making demands that you compensate them, etc.

And I'll come right out and say it. Our building inspector was shaking us down for bribes, although he was careful to do it in a way that he wouldn't get caught. We didn't pay, and it cost us several months of down time while we waited for inspections and permit approval mid-project - and this was on a simple 2-family house. A friend of mine ended up making a $500 payment to a man in a bar in JP just to get the interior renovations he was doing himself on his private residence out of permitting hell. My physical therapist with a fancy downtown location had their certificate of occupancy held up for 4 months after construction finished, and I'm 100% certain it's because his boss wouldn't pay the right person. That division of Boston is still very old school.

Not sure how this compares to Central Mass. Maybe you've dealt with all this before and it doesn't phase you. But having done 2 renovations in Boston, I will never do a 3rd in the city itself.

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  • Dan K.
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2012 · 257 posts · 139 votes
    7y

    Hi @Hovig C., welcome to BP.

    Parking and dumpsters is a major concern in Boston. The costs of of reserving spots and hauling debris can quickly add up. 

    Of course the tenant pool is excellent -- A++. That is the easy part.

    Contractors and subs will charge a premium because everything in town is annoying (permitting, disposal, inspections, etc.).

    I don't know enough about the property to give an opinion, but sprinklers are often required in 4 or more unit builds -- I am dealing with adding sprinklers now and it is not fun. 

    2Reply
  • Hovig C.
    OP
    Worcester, MA · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    Thanks @Dan K. that's exactly the type of thing I was looking for. Quick question, if a property has no parking, would you consider a nearby parking lot a value add? How do you think about or quantify that typically?

    0Reply
  • Dan K.
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2012 · 257 posts · 139 votes
    7y

    No problem @Hovig C.. A nearby parking lot is a plus. Depending on where you're looking, there could be a multi-year waiting list for the parking lot. Parking in Boston is usually not that bad if you have a resident sticker. The tricky thing is that many grad students and others have cars registered out of state or out of Boston and aren't eligible for a resident sticker.

    If there is a nearby lot, you should find out pricing and availability. In addition, in town many garages offer discounted rates for people who only park at night and on the weekends (reverse commute hours).

    0Reply
  • Matthew Perry
    Developer · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 137 votes
    7y

    First let me commend you for making me a large jump. You are moving into the largest and most competitive marketplace in the northeast outside of NYC, and even within that the super competitive Back Bay section. Be prepared to have a lot of people begin to question a lot of things, the back bay neighborhood association is one of the toughest community organizations I know of in the US, and I have done projects all across the country. As mentioned the parking is a huge concern right now especially in Back Bay, the dumpster issue is also a big one though in the grand scheme of things it is the hurdles that will come before that will be more dependent on getting to that point in the entire process. The biggest piece of advice I can mention is to make sure that every single I is dotted twice, and every T is crossed multiple times because once the city of Boston is aware you have taken on any sort of project be prepared to become every well introduced to city inspectors who are going to come knocking frequently. Just think top down what would need to be checked, and I will tell you that sprinklers are always the ones people forget and then get nailed for it. Best of luck! 

    3Reply
  • Jason Turgeon
    Realtor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 244 posts · 275 votes
    7y

    City of Boston ISD is a horror show. They are completely underwater at 1010 Mass Ave (the ISD location) and you can expect long delays for everything. They'll need every one of their allowable 30 days to review your plans. You may need to visit them a dozen times to get your fire suppression system signed off. You pull one inspection for electrical, another for building, a 3rd for plumbing, you go to City Hall to get a dumpster permit ($20 per parking space per day, it adds up in a hurry), you'll need police details for anything that blocks traffic, if you cross a sidewalk with anything bigger than a shovel  you'll need a bond that can only be obtained by crossing the street, taking an elevator up 5 flights of stairs, and giving someone $100 cash. And absolutely no one you deal with is ever happy. The permitting staff in the city are some of the most miserable human beings on the planet. And that's just the City. You haven't yet dealt with the NIMBYs at the Back Bay Neighborhood Association, the contractors who charge double their normal rate to put up with traffic and daily parking tickets on their trucks and the higher costs of everything, the neighbors making demands that you compensate them, etc.

    And I'll come right out and say it. Our building inspector was shaking us down for bribes, although he was careful to do it in a way that he wouldn't get caught. We didn't pay, and it cost us several months of down time while we waited for inspections and permit approval mid-project - and this was on a simple 2-family house. A friend of mine ended up making a $500 payment to a man in a bar in JP just to get the interior renovations he was doing himself on his private residence out of permitting hell. My physical therapist with a fancy downtown location had their certificate of occupancy held up for 4 months after construction finished, and I'm 100% certain it's because his boss wouldn't pay the right person. That division of Boston is still very old school.

    Not sure how this compares to Central Mass. Maybe you've dealt with all this before and it doesn't phase you. But having done 2 renovations in Boston, I will never do a 3rd in the city itself.

    4Reply
  • Hovig C.
    OP
    Worcester, MA · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Perry:

    First let me commend you for making me a large jump. You are moving into the largest and most competitive marketplace in the northeast outside of NYC, and even within that the super competitive Back Bay section. Be prepared to have a lot of people begin to question a lot of things, the back bay neighborhood association is one of the toughest community organizations I know of in the US, and I have done projects all across the country. As mentioned the parking is a huge concern right now especially in Back Bay, the dumpster issue is also a big one though in the grand scheme of things it is the hurdles that will come before that will be more dependent on getting to that point in the entire process. The biggest piece of advice I can mention is to make sure that every single I is dotted twice, and every T is crossed multiple times because once the city of Boston is aware you have taken on any sort of project be prepared to become every well introduced to city inspectors who are going to come knocking frequently. Just think top down what would need to be checked, and I will tell you that sprinklers are always the ones people forget and then get nailed for it. Best of luck! 

    Sounds scary Matt thanks for bringing this up. What did you mean by Back Bay community org? Is that a municipal group? 

    0Reply
  • Hovig C.
    OP
    Worcester, MA · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jason Turgeon:

    City of Boston ISD is a horror show. They are completely underwater at 1010 Mass Ave (the ISD location) and you can expect long delays for everything. They'll need every one of their allowable 30 days to review your plans. You may need to visit them a dozen times to get your fire suppression system signed off. You pull one inspection for electrical, another for building, a 3rd for plumbing, you go to City Hall to get a dumpster permit ($20 per parking space per day, it adds up in a hurry), you'll need police details for anything that blocks traffic, if you cross a sidewalk with anything bigger than a shovel  you'll need a bond that can only be obtained by crossing the street, taking an elevator up 5 flights of stairs, and giving someone $100 cash. And absolutely no one you deal with is ever happy. The permitting staff in the city are some of the most miserable human beings on the planet. And that's just the City. You haven't yet dealt with the NIMBYs at the Back Bay Neighborhood Association, the contractors who charge double their normal rate to put up with traffic and daily parking tickets on their trucks and the higher costs of everything, the neighbors making demands that you compensate them, etc.

    And I'll come right out and say it. Our building inspector was shaking us down for bribes, although he was careful to do it in a way that he wouldn't get caught. We didn't pay, and it cost us several months of down time while we waited for inspections and permit approval mid-project - and this was on a simple 2-family house. A friend of mine ended up making a $500 payment to a man in a bar in JP just to get the interior renovations he was doing himself on his private residence out of permitting hell. My physical therapist with a fancy downtown location had their certificate of occupancy held up for 4 months after construction finished, and I'm 100% certain it's because his boss wouldn't pay the right person. That division of Boston is still very old school.

    Not sure how this compares to Central Mass. Maybe you've dealt with all this before and it doesn't phase you. But having done 2 renovations in Boston, I will never do a 3rd in the city itself.

    Actually this is nothing like Central Mass and what a world of difference you're painting for us. Makes you want to think twice before jumping in. 

    0Reply
  • Jason Turgeon
    Realtor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 244 posts · 275 votes
    7y

    Some due diligence for you:

    http://www.nabbonline.com/

    https://www.cityofboston.gov/images_documents/Back...

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2019/01/15/th...

    https://www.boston.gov/historic-district/back-bay-...

    http://www.nabbonline.com/files/Introduction_to_th...

    1Reply
  • Matthew Perry
    Developer · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 137 votes
    7y

    @Jason Turgeon  beat to it, but the back bay historic district is one to keep an eye on, and there are also a couple of other little smaller community organizations who are small as can be but will raise hell if they dont like what you are doing. 

    0Reply
  • Hovig C.
    OP
    Worcester, MA · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    7y

    @Matthew Perry @Jason Turgeon Really appreciate it guys, thank you.  Are you guys local? Any interest in a once-a-month networking event done right?

    0Reply
  • Matthew Perry
    Developer · Boston, MA · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 137 votes
    7y

    Sure! 

    0Reply
  • Jason Turgeon
    Realtor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 244 posts · 275 votes
    7y

    Possibly, but scheduling is always a challenge for me.

    0Reply
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