Foundation Issues in the Willamette Valley, OR

Foundation Issues in the Willamette Valley, OR

Philomath, OR · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 0 votes

Hello,

I own a home in the Willamette Valley in Oregon.  It rains a lot here and we have clay soil.  There was some cracking in my foundation when I bought the place but I had the foundation inspected and the engineer basically said not do worry about it (see below) and put his seal on the report.  This crack has always kind of bothered me however.  I had to patch a crack in the wall and I've planed most of the doors in the house so they don't stick.  I had terra firma come out and they said the north side of my house had sunk 1/2".  Their solution was to install 8 piers on the north side of the house to the tune of $23,000.  I'm having ram jack come out to tell me what they think as well.  My goal for this place is to hold it and rent it out.  Since I'm not going to sell it immediately, I'm not going to knee jerk spend $23k on something that's not a problem according to a structural engineer.

My question is, do I fix it now, wait until I want to sell, or just not worry about it.  I read that if you know of foundation problems you are required to disclose them to buyers.  

If there's anyone whit experience with this in my area, I'd love to hear from you!

Thanks

Conclusions and recommendations: 

1. .The comforting aspect of this horizontal crack is that this crack does not endanger the stability of the structure any more than the fact that there is a cold joint between the native soil (or rock layer placed under the footing) and the first concrete layer placed in the forms.

2. The repeated cycles of wetting and drying may at this point have consolidated the soils to a point that further settlement is very minor. I recommend that the cracks be cleaned out and then filled with a suitable concrete crack filler compound. This will provide some evidence by next year if there is still movement or that the soil has become virtually stable.

3. My recommendation with respect to the roof drains have already been noted above (drain to street had cracked but mitigated this by attached gutter extensions)

4. There is no concern that the observed cracks form a structural problem to the rest of the structure. 

5. If the problem continues and this aesthetic deficiency continues to be a matter of concern, then there are ways of resolving it , but the methods to implement it are of a considerable level of expense.

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Investor · Roseburg, OR · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 48 votes
9y

I've had the same issue with almost every rental down here in Roseburg (the dreaded black clay). Nice that you got an engineer's report before the sales pitch from the foundation repair guys. Asking those companies for an opinion is like asking an insurance salesman "do I need more insurance?" The answer is always YES!

Not that they are bad companies. They have amazing techniques to solve foundation problems; from those long screw augers to pumping high pressure concrete into the ground. It's just hard to know if/when your problem is really a problem. I had a pencil thin crack in a foundation corner when I bought one of my rentals. Later the tenant called to say the window was stuck and the door wouldn't open. I asked him to go look at that crack and tell me if it had grown. He said "I can stick my whole head in that crack now"! The house was on its way to go visit the neighbors -lol. So Terra Firma wanted $12,000. I thought "I've built foundations, I can do this for less" and I did.... but re pouring a foundation under 1/3 of an existing house still cost me $10,000 in labor and material so it wasn't worth the hassle to do it ourselves for not much savings. I had another house with issues. A company that sells "we replace your foundarion" said the entire foundation had failed and was crumbling, a company that sells "we add braces to your existing foundation" said "your foundation is fine, it just needs our braces in a few places". Uh huh, and the life insurance salesman says you need more life insurance and the health insurance agent says you need a more expensive health plan (plus dental).

Lucky for you that you have a report for someone who wasn't selling you anything (other than selling their educated opinion). My recommendation is to do nothing and watch that crack! If/when you sell you disclose the crack and provide the engineering report that says "the crack is no big deal". Othed then inflation causing all prices to slowly go up, it wont be any more expensive to fix it later if/when it really needs it (as in the crack gets bigger, you get more cracks etc) than to fix it now. 

Did you say it has only sunk 1/2 inch? I wish all my houses were level to within 1/2 inch!

Sleep easy and invest the $23k. Even if you do eventually need to spend it you'll have your $23k plus a decade or two of compounding profits to pay for it. If you spend it now it will become a "sunk cost" that won't earn interest, won't earn a return and won't provide higher rents. 

My 8 cents

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  • Investor · Roseburg, OR · Member since 2015 · 34 posts · 48 votes
    9y

    I've had the same issue with almost every rental down here in Roseburg (the dreaded black clay). Nice that you got an engineer's report before the sales pitch from the foundation repair guys. Asking those companies for an opinion is like asking an insurance salesman "do I need more insurance?" The answer is always YES!

    Not that they are bad companies. They have amazing techniques to solve foundation problems; from those long screw augers to pumping high pressure concrete into the ground. It's just hard to know if/when your problem is really a problem. I had a pencil thin crack in a foundation corner when I bought one of my rentals. Later the tenant called to say the window was stuck and the door wouldn't open. I asked him to go look at that crack and tell me if it had grown. He said "I can stick my whole head in that crack now"! The house was on its way to go visit the neighbors -lol. So Terra Firma wanted $12,000. I thought "I've built foundations, I can do this for less" and I did.... but re pouring a foundation under 1/3 of an existing house still cost me $10,000 in labor and material so it wasn't worth the hassle to do it ourselves for not much savings. I had another house with issues. A company that sells "we replace your foundarion" said the entire foundation had failed and was crumbling, a company that sells "we add braces to your existing foundation" said "your foundation is fine, it just needs our braces in a few places". Uh huh, and the life insurance salesman says you need more life insurance and the health insurance agent says you need a more expensive health plan (plus dental).

    Lucky for you that you have a report for someone who wasn't selling you anything (other than selling their educated opinion). My recommendation is to do nothing and watch that crack! If/when you sell you disclose the crack and provide the engineering report that says "the crack is no big deal". Othed then inflation causing all prices to slowly go up, it wont be any more expensive to fix it later if/when it really needs it (as in the crack gets bigger, you get more cracks etc) than to fix it now. 

    Did you say it has only sunk 1/2 inch? I wish all my houses were level to within 1/2 inch!

    Sleep easy and invest the $23k. Even if you do eventually need to spend it you'll have your $23k plus a decade or two of compounding profits to pay for it. If you spend it now it will become a "sunk cost" that won't earn interest, won't earn a return and won't provide higher rents. 

    My 8 cents

  • Philomath, OR · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Thanks Gordon,

    That was kind of the impression I got from terra firma.  I'm sure they do a good job, but they're also sales people and capitalize on people's fears about "your house is falling, your house is falling!"

    I took some pictures of the crack and compared them with the pictures from two years ago and it really hasn't changed much.  I think the best course is to monitor but know that if I want to sell it's something I'll probably have to shell out some cash for.

    Thanks for you input!

  • Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes
    9y

    Your agent NEED to disclose that to buyers by law, and most likely they will find out in the inspection report and your contract will fall short... all of potential buyers will walk away if you don't disclose, meaning wasting yours and their time and money. 

    If I were you, and this is just my opinion, renters don't give a dime if there are some foundation issues, of course they want to properly close their house/room doors.... 

    1) A crack between a native rock soil and the fist layer of concrete?  Foundation should be a ONE PIECE! It is a big problem, specially this type of horizontal cracks!  Are you located in a zone that have freeze and thaw?  Water will come in into the crack, sit there, and then expand as it freezes! And of course, cause more damage with time.  

    2) How old is your house?  Settlement occurs in the first 15-25 years from the date the house was built, specially differential settlement, which is a big problem.  Is the house has settle enough, then you are safe to repair it without further differential settlement.  If the house is less than 15 years old, I'll be careful with putting too much money on the repairs. 

    3) Roof drain issues due to foundation issues?  This seems really odd to me.  Did you mean leakage from cracks on the roof due to settlement issues?

    4) So... foundation issues... are structural issues.  And therefore, technically, anything that affect the integrity of the house (yes doors not opening/closing correctly is one of them!) is a structural problem.

    5) Aesthetic deficiencies?  Like, oh, there is a crack but its nothing?  Hairline cracks are aesthetic deficiencies, meaning cracks less than 1/8" wide... well we call it poor workmanship...  If this is is affecting the way a person lives in a house, then is in no way aesthetic issue.  

    Ar the comments on 1-5 on your original post form the engineering, the foundation repair company, or the inspector?  

  • Philomath, OR · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Hello Josue,

    The comments are from the professional engineer that inspected the foundation before buying.

    1) I'm in Oregon so there is freeze and thaw in the winter

    2) House was built in '78

    3) The gutters were going into and underground pipe that we later discovered was broken.  We diverted the gutters by adding gutter extenders away from the house.  The water was probably going right on the ground next to the foundation for years.

    I'm planning on renting the place out and like you said, renters won't care about this.  I think I'll hold off on this repair until I decide to sell or the crack starts to get significantly worse.

    Thanks for the info!  It's always good to learn more about foundation work, which isn't something I've had to deal with.

  • Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes
    9y

    Glad to help, good luck and hopefully the new renters don't have issues with their doors...  I have rent a house before here in San Antonio when relocating with foundation issues.  I knew about it, but didn't care since its not my property.  

    I'll keep an eye on that horizontal crack thought.  At least seal it with mortar or something on the sides of the house to avoid water intrusion (maybe once a year or so before winter). 

  • Real Estate Agent · Veneta, OR · Member since 2016 · 48 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    Hey Johna,

    I'm an agent in Lane County OR and I see cracks in foundation all the time. They are a common thing in this area. I have a friend that recently retired but he owned his own foundation business here and he always jokingly told the client that his warranty for cracks ends when he pulls out of the drive way. The rule I've been told, by him, contractors, and companies like Terra Firma is that as long as you can't fit your finger in it and it hasn't drastically changed in a short period of time you should be good to go. 

    As for disclosures for selling, I encourage to disclose everything because it covers you much better. However, if an engineer says it's not a problem then you have no basis to say otherwise. So, technically, why would you disclose something that's not even an issue? If it were me I would disclose the fact that an engineer signed off on it just as you would with any other inspection, again just to make sure you are covered.  Hope that helps?

  • Philomath, OR · Member since 2017 · 9 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    Yeah thanks!

    The foundation costs so much to fix that I think most people freak out about cracks.  I recently compared the pictures from two years ago with today and there was no detectable change, plus I have the PE seal on it.  If it gets worse, I'll look into fixing it.  I don't want to sell right away, but it's good to know what issues might come up in the future.

  • Investor · Clackamas, OR · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    +1 @Darren McGillvrey 

    I've seen new foundations that are more than an inch out. It could have been that way from the get go, especially on an old house. 

    Horizontal cracks are not the best, but like was stated previously, watch it and keep it under finger width. You could buy a laser level for around a hundred bucks and check it once a year for movement. 

    As far as resell, if you disclose the engineer signed off on it, I can't imagine that would hold up a sale. I've seen far worse fly right through on sales.

  • Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes
    9y

    @Johna M Winters

    If you want to take any advice from an engineer, this will be my last post here... If you have a structural issue, and "your chose a professional engineer" and didn't think a 1/2" or more of settlement is an issue, and cracks are beyond the 1/4" in the slabs or visible, and you thought it was an issue, it may shown up in the inspection report from a normal inspector that see a 1/4" crack as an issue.  And if you keep your realtor silent of this knowledge, and if he/she finds out you are holding information, she/he can just quit, or if you tell them in any ways, they MUST disclose to sellers. Think about it for a minute...

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