I need BPs help to conduct a real estate experiment

I need BPs help to conduct a real estate experiment

Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 636 posts · 486 votes

I've been working on a project that is a larger-scale version of the "house hacking" that @Brandon Turner and @Joshua D. are big proponents of. Essentially, rather than fixing up an under-valued house, I'm trying to fix up an under-valued block of houses. It's an entire block of fourplexes, and most of them are owned by out-of-state investors and are being mismanaged by local property managers. I own a few buildings in the area (the whole area is about 25 fourplexes), and I'd like to get the entire block up to it's true potential.

I've bought up as many of the units as I can afford, and recently I've been approached by other owners about managing their properties. For the salary it isn't worth my time, but for the ability to improve the neighborhood, and thus improve my own rent rolls, it seems like a good idea. So here is where I need your help:

What advice can BP give me on this idea of "raising the block"? It's a D block, in a B-C neighborhood. Do I need to get a license to manage other people's properties? Should I avoid section 8 altogether, or should I use it to maximize rental prices in the area? Has anyone else tried this strategy? 

If I get a good amount of interest, I'll start a blog on my efforts and give regular updates on my efforts. Is anyone interested?

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Mindy JensenPro Member
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
9y

No Nonsense Landlord did this in Minneapolis. He took an entire neighborhood surrounded by great houses, but itself a horrible mess. He got himself on the HOA board, started enforcing rules, removed the bad elements and his investment paid off huge.

It took him a lot of work and several years. It's a fascinating story.

I'd read about another project like that.

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  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    No Nonsense Landlord did this in Minneapolis. He took an entire neighborhood surrounded by great houses, but itself a horrible mess. He got himself on the HOA board, started enforcing rules, removed the bad elements and his investment paid off huge.

    It took him a lot of work and several years. It's a fascinating story.

    I'd read about another project like that.

  • Sonny RuckstuhlPro Member
    Investor · Reno, NV · Member since 2013 · 39 posts · 41 votes
    9y

    @Mindy Jensen Thanks for the heads up. I am closing on a 4plex in a similar situation and will go look up No Nonsense Landlord's strategy.

    @Jacob Pereira One of my "whys" for investing is to provide a solid place for people to live. I want investment return as well but like the idea of improving areas and not fitting the slumlord designation. Your goals are worthy. Look forward to hearing your progress and learning from you.

  • Property developer and building contractor · Lampasas , TX · Member since 2016 · 148 posts · 81 votes
    9y

    @Jacob Pereira - sounds super cool! I've considered the same idea in another town... When I started out earlier this last year I learned during my due diligence period that all these dulexes were in a flood zone! The ROI with the increased insurance cost want worth it to me as I evaluated this project against others I had going so I dropped it.

    Might entertain making a similar run as you in the future but right now I'm dumping most my time right in other directions trying to capitalized on the higher price points for retail sales of the homes and multi units I'm building and selling.  Trying to stay focused on building even more cash to be an even stronger buyer when market prices soften more and primarily a buyer's market.  That's when I plan to make a move to put more units in my portfolio.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 636 posts · 486 votes
    9y

    Thanks for the responses, guys! I actually got a number of interesting PMs out of it so far, and am starting to get really excited about the prospect of making this work.

    @Mindy Jensen, I looked for No Nonsense Landlord's post on that, but I wasn't able to find it. It sounds like I could learn a lot from his experience, I think. Do you have a link? I loved your podcast episode and many of your regular posts, btw. 

    Based on the response so far, it sounds like this could be a fun group project. Not quite crowdsourced, but perhaps "crowdadvised." Seems like my next step is to start a blog with some of the initial details and maybe a fun story or two (and there have been many already).

  • Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 636 posts · 486 votes
    9y

    Okay, @Mindy Jensen, @Sonny Ruckstuhl, and @Rob Harris, I went ahead and started a blog. I'm going to update it monthly for people to track my progress, so if you're interested, feel free to check out the first installment here: https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/9255/53610-how...

  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    @Jacob Pereira, it was a post from a while ago. Here's the link.

    http://www.nononsenselandlord.com/2014/04/how-i-turned-a-class-d-apartment-classification-complex/

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    most states you need to licensed to act as a property manager for others but just like selling RE without a license many do it anyway.

    I would be uber cautious here and make sure your well capitalized before attempting an assemblage like this.  you will want to really get a good feel for the other owners willingness to sell.

    you can definitely turn things around but its EXPENSIVE you need to kick riff raff out.. turn units and take time to get the right tenant mix in.. this equal's negative cash flow 

    And there should be some really big up side on the other end Not just positive cash flow.

    I just did this on a MHP I bought last year.... 20 spaces  house and apartment.. I kicked all but 3 tenants out during the course of the year.. so cash flow at 10k went to 1,500 a month.. so it was severely negative to get better tenants in I spent another 250k out of pocket on reno's so it would attract the type of tenants we wanted..  cash flow slowing went up when I got it stabilized I sold it for 2X what I had in it.  took 18 months..   but its the same thought process and money I am thinking

    there is a big group of 4 plexs in N. Charleston SC I have been scoping out lately.. all section 8.. have to make sure it was not some sort of tax credit deal... but might give it a run.

  • Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 636 posts · 486 votes
    9y

    Thanks, @Mindy Jensen, this is very similar to what I had in mind. Unfortunately there's no HOA here so enforcement will be much harder, but I'm hoping I can get the same results with more subtle means.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    9y

    @Jacob Pereira You may have a better shot at accomplishing your goal if you can figure out a way to purchase the properties as opposed to managing them for the other owners.

    With the management plan I imagine you will need to be licensed as almost all 50 states require some type of license for 3rd party PM. In some states you need to work under another Broker doing PM for two years before you can venture out on your own.

    Outside of that hurdle here is what I think the situation is. When you see dilapidated buildings that are being poorly managed by the PM it is not because the owner is calling the PM and trying to pay throw money at the PM to make improvements. Typically in these situations the owners don't want to spend the money to get the buildings up to par. My gut tells me that you will run into the same issues when you take over the PM for these owners. Your best bet to accomplish this goal is to raise funds and buy up the block. May take you several years to accomplish but that's the path that gets you to the finish line.

  • Real Estate Agent · Austin, TX · Member since 2014 · 636 posts · 486 votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs and @James Wise thank you so much for your advice. I've run across a number of posts from each of you in the past and have a lot of respect for your opinions. 

    Jay, I don't know if I would consider myself well-capitalized here, but I'll give you some rough numbers: I have around $650k invested in the block (and yes, they all cashflow quite well), and have about $100k of cash to play with (I could probably scrounge around for another $100-200k of my own money, but I'd prefer not to; I'd be open to attracting other investors, although I'm not sure on the legal status there). for reference the 650k is for 8 individual units.

    James, I definitely agree that buying up the block would be the easiest way to make this happen, but that would take quite a few million dollars more than I have, not to mention that many of the owners are not willing to sell except for significantly over market value. Also, great point about the PM not receiving money from the owner. I think that will be an issue, but in this particular case, I happen to know that at least one of the PMs never called references, because a tenant I had to kick out found a new place across the street, and I never even got a phone call asking about her. Additionally, my last listing got 12 applications (that each had to pay a $45 application fee) and there are still a number of units in the area that are vacant at the moment.  In other words, there are at least a few "sweat equity" value adds out there. 

    Both of you mentioned the licensing issue, which I am already addressing; I have two more classes before I can take the exam to earn my sales license and am reaching out to a few brokers I know to see where I can get the best terms. I'm inexperienced in PM except that I've always managed my own, so that is one thing I'm looking to learn more about. I hope everyone here continues to follow my progress and keeps up the advice and constructive criticism. It is highly appreciated.

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