Renting vs Airbnb with Walkout Basement in Thornton

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Renting vs Airbnb with Walkout Basement in Thornton

Ericka Medina
Thornton, CO · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 4 votes

Hello everyone! My name is Ericka, single mom of two great kids, and I am new to BP. I am excited to be a member and learn, learn, learn!

I purchased a townhouse last year with a partially finished basement. The previous owners were renting out the walkout as a studio and the cash potential is main reason I decided to buy. I finally found a contractor to work with and my goal is to add a bathroom/kitchennette and bedroom downstaris. I went to the city permit office and found out that I can't add a stove due to living in a single family residence.

I am not sure what to do at this point. I have spent countless hours trying to research my options online without much luck. From what I can tell, as long as I don't have a stove (and instead use a portal convection cooktop or something similar), I am ok. Thornton code does state you can have up to four non related people living in a home, so does that mean I can still rent it out? I am also making sure all of my contruction is permitted and legal...but am unsure if when that is complete, I can still rent out my basement or not.

I've considered other options such as putting it on Airbnb instead of doing a long term rental, renting out my 3/2.5 upstairs home and moving to the finished basement when it's done, etc.

It's a great neighborhood, with a walk out basement, and I know that other owners are renting out their basements and/or on Airbnb. Any advince would be HUGELY appreciated as I've already started the basement finish downstairs and want to make sure I can profit from it.

Thanks for reading my long post, but I wanted to ensure I provided a total picture. Also, thanks in advance for your help and I look forward to establishing great partnerships!

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James CarlsonBusiness Member
Real Estate Agent · Colorado | stan.store/JamesCarlson · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y

@Tyler Work  Thanks for the shout-out. 

@Ericka Medina First off, good for you for considering this option. While the money's not free, it is relatively easy to get up and running and help pay down your mortgage, invest in another property or go on that big trip.

I haven't updated our Airbnb laws database with Thornton yet, but my wife/business partner has talked to the city. Here's what we know.

  • There is nothing specific in the ordinances addressing Airbnb/VRBO/short-term rentals.
  • There is no law -- like there was in Denver prior to passage of their Airbnb law -- that prohibites rentals of any kind for less than 30 days.
  • The planner we talked to said they're getting a lot of calls and she was not sure what the result would be if neighbors complained.

Long-term, I think most every city that touches Denver will go the route of Denver. Lakewood is looking at it right now. So is Englewood and Edgewater. Aurora has already passed a law very similar to Denver's If you go way south of Denver (Colorado Springs, Castle Rock, for instance), the politics get more conservative and the emphasis on property rights starts trumping any complaints from neighborhood associations.

About the kitchen .... Not too familiar with Thornton codes. In Denver and Colorado Springs, you can have a separate entrance into a basement, but you cannot have a separate kitchen. What constitutes a kitchen? The trigger is a 220V outlet for a stove and a gas line for a stove. Now, you can have a 220V outlet for a dryer, but try convincing an inspector that the 220V outlet in the middle of a kitchen countertop and with an opening the size of an oven is going to be used for a dyer. As others like @Steve K. and @Dan Mackin have pointed out, get a convection oven. I was out with some buyers today who said they bought a huge toaster oven that would have fit 6 slices of pizza. That's another option.

Good luck!

[email protected]720-460-1770
James Carlson Real Estate
WebsiteView Page
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  • Tommy Sowell
    Investor · Waianae, HI · Member since 2014 · 107 posts · 42 votes
    9y

    Aloha

    Unless the city has laws about short term rents I would give Airbnb a try.  Many cities have taxes on short term rental so I would check and get and Tax ID if needed. If you don't like it or the city tells you it not allowed you can stop. Short term rentals are a lot more work then long term rentals so I you don't have the time I would advise long term rental. Most city allow you to rent out rooms in you house so the basement apartment could be called a room for rent.

    Thank you

    Tommy

    0Reply
  • Marc Cunningham
    Property Manager · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 103 posts · 81 votes
    9y

    Hi Ericka!

    Congratulations on your investment!

    Thornton does not have a lot of short term rental demand, but long term rental demand is awesome!

    IM me or call me from my company web-site below and I am happy to offer you some thoughts.

    (I own several investment properties in Thornton and also run a local Property Management company, so know the area well!)

    0Reply
  • Dan MackinBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Erie, CO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 512 votes
    9y

    @Ericka Medina there are ways to make something work. The stove issue is very common and I've even run into it as a problem when buying a property (appraiser wasn't pleased with it). A few things you can do. 

    1. Use a portable setup like you mentioned.

    2. Install a convection/microwave oven. That covers most needs for someone who would have a unit like that. This is how many people get around the no oven issue.

    3. Get more creative than 1 and 2 :-)

    720-466-3378
    0Reply
  • Ericka Medina
    OP
    Thornton, CO · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    @Marc Cunningham, thank you for your advice. I would love to connect and learn from someone in the trenches!

    @Dan Mackin I'm so glad that there's other options. I had not thought of the convection/microwave, but I'm researching it now! I'm looking to meeting you this evening! I'll be the one with a million questions:).

    0Reply
  • Steve K.
    Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 265 posts · 234 votes
    9y

    @Ericka Medina

    I'm most familiar with Denver zoning. I can see the arguments both ways.

    I used to own a Denver property, zoned single family. The single family next door illegally converted a 2-car garage off the alley into another dwelling. It was on a busy street, near restaurants and a healthclub....so curbside parking out front was in great competition. When this family stopped parking in the rear, they added to the parking problem. When two families started living there, instead of one, they really brought in a parking problem. Their illegal duplex (or carriage house) was doubling the density on their SFH lot. The zoning laws are there to protect everyone living in a SFH, to ensure them that properties around them don't become double density and detract from the enjoyment of the neighborhood (at least without a public hearing, if a zoning variance was applied for).

    I've learned that (at least in Denver), you can't get a legal building permit to put a 2nd kitchen in a single family (no electrician is supposed to add it; if you see one, it's either grandfathered (before current zoning was changed) or illegal (done without a building permit) . (for the above zoning reasons). 

    A "wet bar" arrangement with a sink, fridge and microwave is legitimate in a SFH.

    I understand the new attraction to taking on new rentals, roommates or airbnb short term rentals; it can be profitable to the owner. I might look into owning one such unit myself....but I do realize why neighbors and city councils are hesitant for zoning consistency reasons.

    0Reply
  • Ericka Medina
    OP
    Thornton, CO · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    @Steve K., thanks for the recap on zoning in Denver. Being new REI, it's great to have some feedback from those actually doing the work, Google is not always the most reliable source.

    0Reply
  • Tyler Work
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 179 posts · 208 votes
    9y

    @Ericka Medina have you looked into what the local laws and taxes are regarding short term rentals in the city of Thornton? Also, does the walkout basement have its own entrance or do you have to enter it through the main house?  In my experience most Airbnb guests don't really cook, especially in smaller listings, so I don't see the stove top as being an issue.  As long as you keep an accurate listing regarding the amenities in your Airbnb, no one should complain about it.    @James Carlson might know more about laws in Thornton, but they are probably pretty similar to the laws in Denver.  

    Thanks!

    Tyler

    0Reply
  • Patrick LiskaPro Member
    Investor · Verona, NJ · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 832 votes
    9y

    Ericka,

     How specific are they? can you put in a cooktop, but not an oven ? if so, install a cooktop and the convection/ microwave as mentioned. how about a warming draw ? do they consider that an oven?, they can be used for slow cooking.

    0Reply
  • James CarlsonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Colorado | stan.store/JamesCarlson · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Tyler Work  Thanks for the shout-out. 

    @Ericka Medina First off, good for you for considering this option. While the money's not free, it is relatively easy to get up and running and help pay down your mortgage, invest in another property or go on that big trip.

    I haven't updated our Airbnb laws database with Thornton yet, but my wife/business partner has talked to the city. Here's what we know.

    • There is nothing specific in the ordinances addressing Airbnb/VRBO/short-term rentals.
    • There is no law -- like there was in Denver prior to passage of their Airbnb law -- that prohibites rentals of any kind for less than 30 days.
    • The planner we talked to said they're getting a lot of calls and she was not sure what the result would be if neighbors complained.

    Long-term, I think most every city that touches Denver will go the route of Denver. Lakewood is looking at it right now. So is Englewood and Edgewater. Aurora has already passed a law very similar to Denver's If you go way south of Denver (Colorado Springs, Castle Rock, for instance), the politics get more conservative and the emphasis on property rights starts trumping any complaints from neighborhood associations.

    About the kitchen .... Not too familiar with Thornton codes. In Denver and Colorado Springs, you can have a separate entrance into a basement, but you cannot have a separate kitchen. What constitutes a kitchen? The trigger is a 220V outlet for a stove and a gas line for a stove. Now, you can have a 220V outlet for a dryer, but try convincing an inspector that the 220V outlet in the middle of a kitchen countertop and with an opening the size of an oven is going to be used for a dyer. As others like @Steve K. and @Dan Mackin have pointed out, get a convection oven. I was out with some buyers today who said they bought a huge toaster oven that would have fit 6 slices of pizza. That's another option.

    Good luck!

    [email protected]720-460-1770
    James Carlson Real Estate
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Adam D.
    Investor · Castle Rock, CO · Member since 2014 · 12 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    You could get an electric radiant cooktop with a single element. Just have a regular 15 amp 120volt outlet under the counter inside the cabinet where you will put this. After your final inspection, pop this into the laminate countertop and plug it in. No rewiring required. Most people only cook on 1 or 2 burners at a time anyway so it should be fine. 

    Here's one:

    http://www.homedepot.com/p/12-in-Radiant-Electric-Cooktop-in-Black-with-1-Element-CR1115/203753700

    1Reply
  • Bill S.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Adam D. so I like the thinking. Not sure how you explain to the inspector the outlet under the counter top (in Denver I'm quite sure they would ask). You would definitely need to have each of these units on their own breaker.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 6 votes
    9y
    Hello, I also live in Thornton. My first thought is that this area has virtually no demand for airbnb, so I would recommend not pursuing that and looking for a long term tenant. Second, I'm considering doing something similar with my unfinished basement, however I plan on doing the work myself and the stove problem has come up already. I think what I will do is just allow my tenant to use the upstairs kitchen as long as they are respectful. However my tenant will most likely be a friend or family member, yeah yeah I know.
    0Reply
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