Advice on living in hood

Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 2 votes

I am thinking about buying a 3 Unit MF house within 1 hour of train/bus commute to NYC for about 300-400k. The issue is, this is in the hood. I plan on being in and out within 2 years of renovation and renting out everything, and staying in basement before I find another deal in a safe area.

I figured, the market cant go lower in this area as it's already low, and even if it goes lower, the downside is dwarfed by the long term potential upside due to spacing issues in the city.

The question is, during these two years, what do I bring with me to work/home? Do I carry a pocket knife (not pun) or attend a Martial Arts class (pun)? The safety rating on trulia is about 45-50% for this area, so it's not like im buying in detroit or hunts point where you can't walk down the street. I don't plan on returning home late, but if I do, I'd be sure to drive out the garage through back door.

If anyone has experiences doing this, any feedback will be good. I can run fast but I'm not willing to take a bullet. I'm eastern european (slav) and am medium height and fairly athletic, but not bodybuilder and definitely not bulletproof.

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Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 51 posts · 53 votes

Originally posted by @Daniel Maciag:

I figured, the market cant go lower in this area as it's already low, and even if it goes lower, the downside is dwarfed by the long term potential upside due to spacing issues in the city.

I miss the "hood." I grew up in the "hood" in an area where there was a de facto line of demarcation between rich and poor folks in Harlem. That said, let me chime in. Here are some "rules" for white folks who invest in the "hood." As I see them.

1. Hire a property manger. Even if you are house hacking. You never want your property manager to ever meet with you to discuss anything about the property, while at the property. Why? Because you'll be evicting people at some point. You don't want someone who is being evicted to make YOU a target for retribution. I'm black, and I'd still do this.

2. Go talk to tenants. Have conversations with them in advance of moving there. You don't want to be greeted with contempt and suspicion. You want to be seen as a new neighbor / friend and not an "invader." Again, you're not thinking about buying or land lording them, you're thinking about becoming a neighbor. The more convos you have and the more respect you treat people with, you'll earn a "hood card." Your "hood card" is basically like a get out of jail free card. I've seen countless times where black folks will step in to protect a white person they deem to be "cool" (hood card carriers) from being a target.

3. The car you drive should be half as nice as the nicest car you see in the area.

4. Don't run around acting afraid. You draw attention to yourself when you do everything in your power to avoid being seen. Ducking around corners, sneaking in to get home, etc. I've seen people become victims strictly off the fact that they were acting afraid and outward displays of being afraid of black folks can be viewed as "racist." If you're viewed as racist, you're a target. I've seen it happen growing up. Sad but true. Guy sees a group of black guys, then darts across the street to avoid walking past them. He's now identified himself as a target vs. walking by with a smile and nod.

I hope my 2 cents helps.

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Tampa, FL · Member since 2018 · 51 posts · 53 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Daniel Maciag:
I am thinking about buying a 3 Unit MF house within 1 hour of train/bus commute to NYC for about 300-400k. The issue is, this is in the hood. I plan on being in and out within 2 years of renovation and renting out everything, and staying in basement before I find another deal in a safe area.
I figured, the market cant go lower in this area as it's already low, and even if it goes lower, the downside is dwarfed by the long term potential upside due to spacing issues in the city.
The question is, during these two years, what do I bring with me to work/home? Do I carry a pocket knife (not pun) or attend a Martial Arts class (pun)? The safety rating on trulia is about 45-50% for this area, so it's not like im buying in detroit or hunts point where you can't walk down the street. I don't plan on returning home late, but if I do, I'd be sure to drive out the garage through back door.
If anyone has experiences doing this, any feedback will be good. I can run fast but I'm not willing to take a bullet. I'm eastern european (slav) and am medium height and fairly athletic, but not bodybuilder and definitely not bulletproof.
I miss the "hood." I grew up in the "hood" in an area where there was a de facto line of demarcation between rich and poor folks in Harlem. That said, let me chime in. Here are some "rules" for white folks who invest in the "hood." As I see them.
1. Hire a property manger. Even if you are house hacking. You never want your property manager to ever meet with you to discuss anything about the property, while at the property. Why? Because you'll be evicting people at some point. You don't want someone who is being evicted to make YOU a target for retribution. I'm black, and I'd still do this.
2. Go talk to tenants. Have conversations with them in advance of moving there. You don't want to be greeted with contempt and suspicion. You want to be seen as a new neighbor / friend and not an "invader." Again, you're not thinking about buying or land lording them, you're thinking about becoming a neighbor. The more convos you have and the more respect you treat people with, you'll earn a "hood card." Your "hood card" is basically like a get out of jail free card. I've seen countless times where black folks will step in to protect a white person they deem to be "cool" (hood card carriers) from being a target.
3. The car you drive should be half as nice as the nicest car you see in the area.
4. Don't run around acting afraid. You draw attention to yourself when you do everything in your power to avoid being seen. Ducking around corners, sneaking in to get home, etc. I've seen people become victims strictly off the fact that they were acting afraid and outward displays of being afraid of black folks can be viewed as "racist." If you're viewed as racist, you're a target. I've seen it happen growing up. Sad but true. Guy sees a group of black guys, then darts across the street to avoid walking past them. He's now identified himself as a target vs. walking by with a smile and nod.
I hope my 2 cents helps.
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Leroy K. WilliamsPro Member
Property Manager · Southfield Mi · Member since 2018 · 182 posts · 171 votes
7y
Hello Daniel,
I am from Detroit and have lived a good portion of my life in the "hood". Now, Before I offer my two cents about how to deal with the locals I will say for the record that Detroit is not what you might think, its probably the best place in the country right now to buy real estate. Ok, that said I will give you a few pointers. #1 Mind your business, you don't want people to think you may be a problem as it relates to whatever rules they are bending in order to survive. This means don't ask too many questions. #2 Dress very casually like basic jeans, t-shirt, jacket. #3 Do not try to make friends, instead be cordial and respectful #4 Like Jay Ballman said definitely hire a property manager and never reveal your secret identity as the property owner. #5 Try to get in good with the local merchants closest to your property since your first line of defense will likely be these folks (like store and restaurant owners) looking out for you since its likely that they know the locals and have some influence when it comes to convincing them to leave you alone. #6 Try to avoid a routine. Don't leave out and come home at the same time everyday.

Alright, good luck.
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Oscar Bruno
Bronx, NY · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 1 vote
7y
@Daniel Maciag Like the other replies have said, be respectful and friendly but don't be weak. The idea of being targeted by aggressive people because they may perceive you as racist is very real. Places in NYC are very apprehensive towards whites moving in to their neighborhoods because they see it as gentrification and we dont appreciate it. That being said, if you're nice to people and even cool, you'll be just fine!! A GREAT tip that was given was minding your own business. You see somebody smoking crack, having sex, or stealing a car, (unlike most non native new yorkers think) you see something, you mind your business and walk away. If you're moving into the hood you'll probably see people smoking weed out in public so don't call the police cause its very common. Recap, mind your business, be friendly and respectful and youll be fine!

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Christian Hutchinson
Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 360 posts · 354 votes
7y
I own property in Detroit in areas that was once "The Hood".
My bit of advice. Don't be afraid. I bought a property where hand to hands were being done in front of it because it was vacant. I bought the property I pulled up and asked them if they needed help? Next day they were gone.
I had a younger guy walking up and down my street serving cars, I saw him walking by, "I asked you lost? Because you are walking in circles around the block, you need a phone to call someone?" Next day they are gone.
Criminals are lazy, they want the path of least resistance. My Wife runs the locals off too when she shows up. Lots of these bad actors are results of low expectations. They have grandmas, older uncles, etc that wouldnt let that bevior fly at their homes. Make it known this isn't the place. Not aggressively, but direct and straight forward.
The vacant uncared for property down the street from a place I had people running drugs/prostitution out of it. I called the property owner to try to get them to fix it. They told me to F** off. Well I have cameras I had the activity recorded.
So one day this summer I had my lawn crew and handyman clean up the outside and board up the property one morning. People literally came out of their houses applauding. My Dad said the guy could sue us, and I told him if we go to court, I'll role the tape of the activity on his property, and we'll see what a judge says.

If you show you care about the neighborhood AND the people in it trying to help it be safe and clean people will like you. If that means sweeping the whole sidewalk and not just your own or shoveling the snow of some of the older people near you. It builds up currency with the locals.
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Daniel Maciag
OP
Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 2 votes
7y
Thanks all for the tips. I dont mind people doing drugs on my block as long as they don't shoot me. The bullets is what worries me, not skin color.
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
@Daniel Maciag a knife! I don’t know about that. I go into some really rough areas and deal with low level criminals all the time. Your best weapon is a cell phone. Someone bothers you use your phone to call the cops. That’s the best way to handle it if your a little apprehensive
Me I’m not a big fan of being afraid at my own properties. I take a slightly different approach. I have rules at my properties nondrug dealing no hookers and you get evicted if the cops ever come to my house. I don’t like to put hands on people def try to avoid that. Then the cops are coming to talk to you
Street people I leave along. Let them say or do wat they want as long at they aren’t touching you or loitering or causing trouble directly in front of your prop. If so? Yep call the cops
when I’m having trouble with someone I leave the Sheetrock knife in my car last thing you want is to get arrested for assault with a weapon. If your in troubles always use hands unless you see a weapon and are sure it’s getting used on you.
Years ago Cops had me at gunpoint after one altercation. Guy tried to do a push in burgurly at my house, I was hitting him with a pipe when the cops came........that has taught me...to call the cops. If you need to defend yourself do it, then immediately call the cops. Nothing deters a criminal more than attention, guybabove was right. Crims take the easy way.   And if ppl know you’ll punch them in the face and then call the cops they will give you space.
As far as the drug dealing and you not minding...... Unless your talking about pot......then to me it’s a non issue. If your talking about hard drugs and you don’t mind hard drug dealers in your immediate vicinity I have to ask why are you ok with that? That is going to kill your property value. If you see drug dealing out in the open install cameras and get footage and report it.
Property values go up when drug dealers relocate. That’s value add on the cheap and easy.
3 Reply
Jill F.
Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
People looking for housing want the same thing at every price point--- Good value for their money. The lower the price point the more difficult it is to find even very basic clean, safe, affordable housing. I own several properties which my tenants in my nicest units tell me are in "the hood." My husband and I still do most of the renovations on our properties ourselves and I've had multiple tenants tell me that they appreciate the fact that we care enough about our property to get out there and work on it ourselves. Our tenants have been very reasonable in their demands- People do not expect central air and attached garages for less than 500/month. People do expect you to listen and respond to their problems--- the people living in inexpensive housing WANT you to kick out tenants that allow drug dealers to operate in a building. (They don't want to live with all the noise and traffic anymore than you do). They expect working heat, plumbing and a pest free environment. They get that old buildings have old electrical and that they may not be able to vacuum and microwave at the same time. They APPRECIATE features like screens and working storm windows and newer, clean appliances. They appreciate it when you work to keep good tenants experiencing temporary problems.
Our tenants really don't have a problem with the idea that we are in the rental business to make money. They don't want a handout, they want good value and we are making good money by providing good service and value in an area and at a price point where good service and value are hard to find.
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
@Daniel Maciag one thing before you goto far down the road tho. Have you done any investigating on books that help you develop a purpose based goal?
Reason I ask is that you mention you’ll only stay for a few years then move to a safe neighborhood. Others above mentioned property managers and keeping an arms length. Now I do use property management but I do it bc it makes sense time wise. I don’t do it so my tenants don’t know me. Most of my tenants call me first I’m at my properties at least a few times a week and I spend two full days every week working on them. When the weather is good I’m outside talking when I have time
I don’t do it with fear and loathing I do it happily(although it’s hard work and stressful) I buy properties in bad areas exclusively.
Here is my optimal situation. Buy many properties on the block and make sure I  buy the worst property on the block and hopefully the #2,#3 even better last year I bought the property with a history of the most violence, drug dealing etc in the whole city. Why? Because I control the situation.
I grew up in rough areas and I like to clean them up. I’ve develpoped skills that get buildings squeaky clean. Along the way i figured out a way to make sure it’s profitable.
But I get the idea what your doing might might be distasteful to you and if that’s the case I would move on to something else. It seems to me you want to live in the house but not the neighborhood. That sounds more like a prison
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Karen Rittenhouse
Flipper/Rehabber · Greensboro, NC · Member since 2010 · 623 posts · 615 votes
7y
@Daniel Maciag Entirely up to you but, another thing to consider is vandalism. If the area is bad, you will have vandalism and property theft as you renovate. Once it's out that you're renovating, everyone knows you're constantly buying new things for the property and those things can go missing over and over.
Just something to add into your renovation cost estimates.
2 Reply
Daniel Maciag
OP
Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 2 votes
7y
@John Hickey are you primarily in high cap or high appreciation areas, or mix of both?
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Art Bridgeman
Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 2 votes
7y
@Daniel Maciag Hi, Daniel, I am near North St.Louis Missouri, the hood here is very protective of its turf. So many different smaller gangs and they are always shooting the place up for power. Investing here is a bad idea unless you are already familiar with the neighborhood and know which block belongs to which gang, but in South St.Louis we have beautiful neighborhoods that are slightly more expensive and good deals. I would think your NY area would be the same, to many investors lose money trying to go for the cheap multi family, better to pay up and invest in a better neighborhood. You will save yourself a lot of stress. FYI, in STL the adage of brining a knife to a gun fight is so true here. Skip the knife and buy a bullet proof vest and be respectful if you plan on still doing it.
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
@Daniel Maciag I invest for appreciation. I only invest in areas that I count on gentrifying. Right now I’m investing in newburgh NY.
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Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
Dead is dead . I am not gonna risk my life for some dirt and bricks for a bit of cash . My advice is dont invest in the "hood" . There arent any do overs in death
1 Reply
John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
I agree with Matthe Paul. If your in it for a few bucks this type of investment is not ideal.
If your plans are bigger. If you have other reasons for investing in rough neighborhood that go beyond just padding your nest. If buying a few silly items that will rust away to dust with time isn’t why you invest rougher neighborhoods are very rewarding.
At my own house sometimes my neighbors will bring up that I bought the ugliest house in the area and mad it one of the nicest. That’s pretty cool.
At my investments mothers come up to e with babies and kids in two and away they feel safer walking to the the bus. They see less needles on the sidewalks, that hookers don’t sit on their steps.
Now that’s the stuff I invest for. Of course when you do this kind of thing there is a a bit of confrontation here and there. But there are many people doing this. Most of us aren’t very physically imposing. I don’t think most of us would do it if there was a possibility of us getting shot.
I don’t carry a gun or feel the need. I’ve carried mace on occasion when dealing with a dernged tenant. talking reasonably and taking care to see how other people react has done pretty well so far and I’ve been doing this kind of investing since 06.
Plus the money is good. None of us in my area are thinking a 12-15% return is a good thing. The monetary returns when done right are ridiculous.
1 Reply
Daniel Maciag
OP
Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 2 votes
7y
@John Hickey Would you get legal 2 Family for 550k in hood, or big small family for 380k and convert it 2/3 fam over 1 year?
0 Reply
John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
Impossible to answer that q well, without more info. got a q for you. What city are you talking about? It’s best to find someone that invests in that city to ask this type of q.
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Daniel Maciag
OP
Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 2 votes
7y
@John Hickey Would be NYC primarily. Some areas on border of good/hood places. It would be a mix of good and hood if I pick it right.
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
@Daniel Maciag imho your spinning your Wheels. narrow your market first to a small area. Decide where you can live ...or want to invest. Then start studying properties.
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Daniel Maciag
OP
Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 2 votes
7y
@John Hickey it's difficult to invest in one small area in nyc. nyc has extremely low inventory as does SF, directly opposite of suburbs. On a side note, there are a significant amount of overvalued homes, but no one buys them and that is why they show unsold for 2+ years on the market.
If I had to look at one area and hope for a house to come on the market, then I'd be waiting for a long long time.
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
@Daniel Maciag Let me see if I understand you. Your first post you said you were looking for a place within an hours commute of New York City that would put you in Peekskill possibly as far up as Poughkeepsie, parts of New Jersey Connecticut or Long Island. it sounds to me like now you’re actually speaking about New York City it’s self is that correct
1 Reply
Daniel Maciag
OP
Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 2 votes
7y
Ah let me be clear, I meant to say an hour away from say, central downtown Manhattan where most people work, which would put me in the outer boroughs, except for south Bronx, west brooklyn, and LIC.
I was looking at Bronx, but open to JC Yonkers and Newark but at that point there are too many areas to look at. I get your point though. Need to have one.
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
Yeah def need a market. Something to focus on and make contacts with realtors, lawyers, auction guys, you have the cash. speaking of cash. your budget is 300/400 is that cash or a mortgage? Very different animals. If cash you could find some stuff It’s no easy buy can be done
If you focus on an area become familiar with values when you see a deal you know it.
I looked at hundreds of properties in one area before I came to be able to come in my head. Be able to see a house put an offer in on the spot and get it accepted and close. All those things have to happen If you don’t know the market and mess one up you either don’t get the property....because you over bid, underbid etc or you do get it and you overpaid
I think it’s safe to say I did what your trying to do. I bought a place in bed stuy in 06 and sold it in 17 for a big profit.
But I don’t think I got lucky I spent thousands of hours in bed stuy before I bought.....I had been around the area for 20 years I knew every street. Not from a RE perspective but I knew the area well.
I know people that bought the same time as me 04-09 and many of them hardly saw their money back after ten years....except the ones in the markets that went up. Now most of them are whole again with profit but that’s along time to sit underwater. And for the ones that held on for only 6-9 years they lost money.
Of course those of us in bed stuy, prospect park, prospect heights bushwick we killled it. But I don’t think we were all lucky. Some knew what they were doing.
On your idea that a market can’t go lower. When I first saw your post I thought you had a specific market. You said something like “it can’t go any lower”. If your having a specific market and that’s your opinion which could be right or wrong that’s a place to work from.    But if your saying just because it’s close to or in NYC it can’t go down be careful I would rethink that.
1 Reply
Daniel Maciag
OP
Member since 2018 · 26 posts · 2 votes
7y
Some areas did not rise much in NYC in this bull market, unlike much of Brooklyn. Those areas are the "can't go lower" areas. Well, right now 300k-400k 10% down on mortgage is about 20-25% Monthly Debt to income (mort+insur+taxes+PMI), so it is quite conservative, and I prefer to use my cash on other investments and for hedging purposes.
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John Hickey
Rental Property Investor · Chappaqua, NY · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 947 votes
7y
Sweet. Sounds like you got it under control.
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Odie Ayaga
Specialist · Delran, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 951 votes
7y
Originally posted by @Daniel Maciag:

@John Hickey it's difficult to invest in one small area in nyc. nyc has extremely low inventory as does SF, directly opposite of suburbs. On a side note, there are a significant amount of overvalued homes, but no one buys them and that is why they show unsold for 2+ years on the market.
If I had to look at one area and hope for a house to come on the market, then I'd be waiting for a long long time.
I agree with John here. If you have an aggressive strategy you shouldn't have to "wait" for something to come on market. There are a number of strategies you can employ to get off-market properties, especially the better you know your target market.
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