First Blueprints, Commercial upgrade for a 600 am 6 meter service

First Blueprints, Commercial upgrade for a 600 am 6 meter service

Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
Fancy!Plan 2600 Amp Service600 Amp Service Upgrade

I wanted to share a BP first for me...some investors who avoid city inspections and permits, not me! I had a fire in an apartment unit and part of the evaluation from the City of Toledo was a replacement of the electrical service. Since this is a 600 amp service with SIX strands of 350mc wire the size of your thumb we had to retain the services of an engineer to draft plans along with my electrician and I figuring out how we would replace service with an occupied building. (More to follow on that I'm sure)

I picked up the plans last night from the engineer and have to say I'm a little addicted to well-thought out projects at this point...this is completely different than investing in single family foreclosures. 

How was the City of Toledo to deal with??? Honestly they have been super helpful, my electrician has cell numbers for the inspectors and the supervisor to discuss options as we need to address them. The Dept of Building Inspection has been supportive of upgrading an occupied building. I don't have anything to compare to of course...Akron, Cleveland, Columbus Cincinnati...investors in those areas I'd love to hear your experience.

The plans will be submitted today by my electrician and I'm being told to expect a 3 week review period after which hopefully we are approved to pull the permit and schedule the job...otherwise there will be questions and clarifications and have to submit revised plans and wait another three weeks. (The point was for the team we had to get everything figured out the first time!)

Do I make it sound too easy? Well my 9-5 prior life had me inside Ford and GM as a project manager balancing the UAW and outside contractors paired with the concerns of production and the safety dept...so the city is now the safety dept, my rental income is production, and my team is the UAW/contractors. (If I sound like I miss the job it's because I do) :)

I suspect the regular rehab of commercial real estate may be in my future, it really is exciting!

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  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2016 · 425 posts · 184 votes
    6y

    @Andrew Fidler

    This sounds great. I'm glad it's going well.

    Care you share information on the fire? Was a problem with the electrical service a part of the cause? I'd like to do anything preventative for a fire if possible.

  • Robert EllisBusiness Member
    Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Fidler:
    Fancy!Plan 2600 Amp Service600 Amp Service Upgrade

    I wanted to share a BP first for me...some investors who avoid city inspections and permits, not me! I had a fire in an apartment unit and part of the evaluation from the City of Toledo was a replacement of the electrical service. Since this is a 600 amp service with SIX strands of 350mc wire the size of your thumb we had to retain the services of an engineer to draft plans along with my electrician and I figuring out how we would replace service with an occupied building. (More to follow on that I'm sure)

    I picked up the plans last night from the engineer and have to say I'm a little addicted to well-thought out projects at this point...this is completely different than investing in single family foreclosures. 

    How was the City of Toledo to deal with??? Honestly they have been super helpful, my electrician has cell numbers for the inspectors and the supervisor to discuss options as we need to address them. The Dept of Building Inspection has been supportive of upgrading an occupied building. I don't have anything to compare to of course...Akron, Cleveland, Columbus Cincinnati...investors in those areas I'd love to hear your experience.

    The plans will be submitted today by my electrician and I'm being told to expect a 3 week review period after which hopefully we are approved to pull the permit and schedule the job...otherwise there will be questions and clarifications and have to submit revised plans and wait another three weeks. (The point was for the team we had to get everything figured out the first time!)

    Do I make it sound too easy? Well my 9-5 prior life had me inside Ford and GM as a project manager balancing the UAW and outside contractors paired with the concerns of production and the safety dept...so the city is now the safety dept, my rental income is production, and my team is the UAW/contractors. (If I sound like I miss the job it's because I do) :)

    I suspect the regular rehab of commercial real estate may be in my future, it really is exciting!

     There is something so satisfying about going down a path that many stray away from and seeing it through to completion!  Its a good thing you had experience with someone like this from your previous 9-5, some people find dealing with the city to be too much of a headache.

  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    6y

    Hi @Christopher B. - absolutely, I mentioned the event on a prior post regarding property insurance.

    The tenant living in the unit had their electric shut off by the provider for failure to pay and upon re-connection was told to shut the main breaker off. The electric company plugged in the new meter and drove off, the fire started shortly there after (no interior inspection occurs and the tenant doesn't have to be home).

    The investigation identified the kitchen stove wiring as the source of the fire (I personally think the stove may have been in use at the time of shut-off and was left on so the sudden restoration of power caused arcing), wiring was not ruled out so an electrical inspection was required by the city and they concluded all wiring in the unit (romex) would have to be replaced due to ambient heat exposure. 

    It really seems to an act-of-god event, privacy rights would have prevented me involving myself in the electrical connection event and of course I didn't know the request had been made as the account was in the tenant's own name. 

    Maybe helpful?

  • Andrew FidlerBusiness Member
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Toledo, OH · Member since 2011 · 384 posts · 434 votes
    6y

    @Robert Ellis, it's a necessary evil...similar to my experience with the IRS, when you are trying to do things correctly they will bend over backwards to assist you and answer questions. I expect when caught trying to not comply with the law then they will chase you endlessly.

  • Robert EllisBusiness Member
    Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Fidler:

    @Robert Ellis, it's a necessary evil...similar to my experience with the IRS, when you are trying to do things correctly they will bend over backwards to assist you and answer questions. I expect when caught trying to not comply with the law then they will chase you endlessly.

     Exactly! If you reach out first and try to do things they way they are supposed to be done the city will be extremely nice and helpful... But if they find out you're doing something you aren't good luck!

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2016 · 425 posts · 184 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Fidler:

    Hi @Christopher B. - absolutely, I mentioned the event on a prior post regarding property insurance.

    The tenant living in the unit had their electric shut off by the provider for failure to pay and upon re-connection was told to shut the main breaker off. The electric company plugged in the new meter and drove off, the fire started shortly there after (no interior inspection occurs and the tenant doesn't have to be home).

    The investigation identified the kitchen stove wiring as the source of the fire (I personally think the stove may have been in use at the time of shut-off and was left on so the sudden restoration of power caused arcing), wiring was not ruled out so an electrical inspection was required by the city and they concluded all wiring in the unit (romex) would have to be replaced due to ambient heat exposure. 

    It really seems to an act-of-god event, privacy rights would have prevented me involving myself in the electrical connection event and of course I didn't know the request had been made as the account was in the tenant's own name. 

    Maybe helpful?

     Thanks Andrew, yes, that does help.  I don't know how you could have avoided such a situation.  I have not seen such a request from the electric utility, but will certainly keep it in mind in the future.  I believe you can have electric service rolled over to you or the owner in case of a stop of service by the Tenant, but I'm not sure about non-payment shut-offs.  We do receive gas shut-off notifications for when our Tenants are behind on utilities and near shut-off, but I'm not sure if Toledo Edison offers that or not. 

    Thanks again for sharing.  

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