Is it time to jump ship?

Is it time to jump ship?

Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 6 votes

Hi BP Community -

I purchased my first rental property in Frankford Philadelphia back in March 2021. I was hoping for it to be the first of many in the Philadelphia area. I wanted to use this property as a way to learn the Ins and Outs of managing properties out of state and working with a property manager.

The first year of being a landlord went as well as I could've hoped. My tenants paid each month's rent and reimbursed me for the utility bills I paid. As we approached the one year mark (April 2022), I wanted to renew the tenants to another year's lease, with no rent increase. After the tenants agreed to sign on for another year, they immediately stopped paying rent.

In August, my property manager started the eviction process. The court issued a JBA stating that the tenants had to stay current on rent and pay back an extra $50 per month for the rent they hadn't paid, until they were caught up.

In September, I didn't receive my rent so the property manager initiated the lock-out process. The tenants were finally locked out on October 20. Since the lock-out date, the tenants have broken into the property multiple times. When the property manager's contractor has gone in to perform work, they've found members of the family sleeping there. They gain access through windows to the basement and main floor.

The tenants left the place in shambles. Things are broken everywhere. Everything was dirty, there were insects everywhere, it couldn't really get worse.

The most stressful part of this whole process is that I keep getting emails from the property manager every week about another issue or another bill I need to pay for something that wasn't discussed before.

This past week, the property manager emailed me to tell me that someone had stolen the Fridge and the Stove from the property. I questioned how that could happen when we changed the locks, boarded up the windows in the basement, etc. She could not provide specifics.

This is where I need advice. At this point, I am thinking about selling my property. I take FULL responsibility for buying the property in the neighborhood I did, but between the tenant pool in that area and how useless my property manager is, I feel like I should jump ship and try to start my rental journey in another neighborhood.

Does anyone have similar stories? I'm not sure if I should give it 1 more shot (complete the process to have the property manager's contractors turn around the property) and try renting out the property one more time, or take this as a learning experience and move on.
Due to the fact that the property appreciated over the last 18 months, I should be able to sell for a small profit despite putting in a lot of $$ to fix the apartment. I am new in this process and would appreciate this group's view on the matter.

Thank you!

3Reply
175 views

Most Popular Reply

Real Estate Agent · 901 Market st Suite 3065 Philadelphia, PA 19107 · Member since 2021 · 71 posts · 37 votes
3y

Hey, 

 Where exactly is your property located? I am in the 19121 zip code in Philadelphia. The units that I own are in a pretty "transitional" area and I have not had any issues. I self-manage my units and some units for some of the other absentee owners around the area. I also live out here so let me know if you want to talk. I can give you some boots-on-the-ground information about the block that your property is located on. 

See this reply in the discussion

36 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Benjamin AakerPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Brandon, SD · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y
    Is this property in a bad part of town? Your post seems to indicate it is. If you don't feel safe there, then you should sell. Make sure the former tenants are truly out. Engage law enforcement. Put up some cameras. These are cheap nowadays.
    Don't let this bad experience sour you on real estate investing. Everyone has bad tenants or even bad property managers from time to time. Find a property in a better part of town and use the proceeds of the sale on this one to roll into the next one. Sorry about the bad experience but it will hopefully be a great story you tell a podcaster some day.
  • Jewel B.Pro Member
    New to Real Estate · Lehigh Valley, PA · Member since 2021 · 352 posts · 120 votes
    3y

    Wow, are you sure the fridge and stove were actually stolen? What zip code is this?

  • Real Estate Agent · 901 Market st Suite 3065 Philadelphia, PA 19107 · Member since 2021 · 71 posts · 37 votes
    3y

    Hey, 

     Where exactly is your property located? I am in the 19121 zip code in Philadelphia. The units that I own are in a pretty "transitional" area and I have not had any issues. I self-manage my units and some units for some of the other absentee owners around the area. I also live out here so let me know if you want to talk. I can give you some boots-on-the-ground information about the block that your property is located on. 

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    3y

    If it's really this bad and you cannot trust your PM company (obviously) then yep, it's time to move on. The only other option is to get a new property manager....

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2019 · 618 posts · 430 votes
    3y

    Ive talked to a handful of folks who are out of state investors who have done a good amount of homework but end up in areas in and around Philadelphia that I wouldn't touch without either living here or really understanding the area/tenants/PMs. I think all the advice of out of state investing is great but that coupled with a first time landlord plus certain areas of Philly usually equate to potential heartache. 

    If it were me, Id get in contact with a RE agent that knows Frankford and find out what they could realistically sell it for. Then crunch some numbers. Maybe you were very unlucky but Id venture to guess this wont be your only time dealing with similar situations in that area of the city at your rent price. 

    Happy to talk in more detail via DM. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Memphis, TN · Member since 2020 · 202 posts · 203 votes
    3y

    This is a tough story! I'm sure others will provide their opinion, but since you now know the area and the numbers, it should be a personal decision to keep or sell. I think you have all of the info needed. Are you willing to roll the dice again? If so I'd get a different PM.  

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    3y

    If the tenants were legally evicted and keep breaking in, set up camera, simple security alarm and call the police.  They are breaking and entering plain and simple.

    Talk to a real estate agent and sell it.

  • Jewel B.Pro Member
    New to Real Estate · Lehigh Valley, PA · Member since 2021 · 352 posts · 120 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    If the tenants were legally evicted and keep breaking in, set up camera, simple security alarm and call the police.  They are breaking and entering plain and simple.

    Talk to a real estate agent and sell it.


     Agreed, though they'll probably steal the cameras too smh

  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    I'd sell for the purpose of buying into a safer area. You may have reached in this one--lower cost but took the risk of completely unsafe area. 

    Don't stress it. Put some $ aside, get all your documentation from the PM/tenants/court & talk to a lawyer for a little price see your best options, execute and go. This was your lesson you wanted to learn. It should only go up from here. I wouldn't pay the PM anything until you talk to a lawyer. 

    edit: I am sorry this happened to you, but you got to see the other side. You know now what to prepare for.

  • Jewel B.Pro Member
    New to Real Estate · Lehigh Valley, PA · Member since 2021 · 352 posts · 120 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Saaj Patel:

    Hey, 

     Where exactly is your property located? I am in the 19121 zip code in Philadelphia. The units that I own are in a pretty "transitional" area and I have not had any issues. I self-manage my units and some units for some of the other absentee owners around the area. I also live out here so let me know if you want to talk. I can give you some boots-on-the-ground information about the block that your property is located on. 


     I was just looking at that area last night.

  • Jewel B.Pro Member
    New to Real Estate · Lehigh Valley, PA · Member since 2021 · 352 posts · 120 votes
    3y
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Jewel B.:
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    If the tenants were legally evicted and keep breaking in, set up camera, simple security alarm and call the police.  They are breaking and entering plain and simple.

    Talk to a real estate agent and sell it.


     Agreed, though they'll probably steal the cameras too smh


     If the images are uploaded to the cloud, then it won't matter...you will have that recorded as well.  Other option is pay a security service to set up shop inside and bust them when they come in.

  • Jewel B.Pro Member
    New to Real Estate · Lehigh Valley, PA · Member since 2021 · 352 posts · 120 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:
    Quote from @Jewel B.:
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    If the tenants were legally evicted and keep breaking in, set up camera, simple security alarm and call the police.  They are breaking and entering plain and simple.

    Talk to a real estate agent and sell it.


     Agreed, though they'll probably steal the cameras too smh


     If the images are uploaded to the cloud, then it won't matter...you will have that recorded as well.  Other option is pay a security service to set up shop inside and bust them when they come in.


     Indeed, option B sounds extra fun though :)

  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:
    Quote from @Jewel B.:
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    If the tenants were legally evicted and keep breaking in, set up camera, simple security alarm and call the police.  They are breaking and entering plain and simple.

    Talk to a real estate agent and sell it.


     Agreed, though they'll probably steal the cameras too smh


     If the images are uploaded to the cloud, then it won't matter...you will have that recorded as well.  Other option is pay a security service to set up shop inside and bust them when they come in.


     Bust them and do what, lay hands? You're just creating a bigger mess. Cut your losses, get some legal advice on what you need to do with your property and property management. Don't create more issues. Sell, if I was you I would creatively sell--offer seller financing. You likely locked in 3%-ish, offer 6% or 1-2% less than market. See if someone bites to give you more value for the house but you even state you'd make small profit. That should be good enough, this isn't worth the baggage at all.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @V.G Jason:
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:
    Quote from @Jewel B.:
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    If the tenants were legally evicted and keep breaking in, set up camera, simple security alarm and call the police.  They are breaking and entering plain and simple.

    Talk to a real estate agent and sell it.


     Agreed, though they'll probably steal the cameras too smh


     If the images are uploaded to the cloud, then it won't matter...you will have that recorded as well.  Other option is pay a security service to set up shop inside and bust them when they come in.


     Bust them and do what, lay hands? You're just creating a bigger mess. Cut your losses, get some legal advice on what you need to do with your property and property management. Don't create more issues. Sell, if I was you I would creatively sell--offer seller financing. You likely locked in 3%-ish, offer 6% or 1-2% less than market. See if someone bites to give you more value for the house but you even state you'd make small profit. That should be good enough, this isn't worth the baggage at all.


     They are breaking and entering.  Call the cops once they enter and let the police deal with it.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    @Ravi Chhabra Unfortunately this happens a lot. Milwaukee is a typical example. OOS investors run numbers, they look exceptionally good on paper, but what you have to deal with is hard to summarize in one sentence. You really have to live through it to fully understand. I have written a post a while ago called what they don't tell you about cheap properties in an attempt to describe the "experience"

    The issue is, selling a property like this is often not that easy either. I have (reluctantly) helped clients to sell off some of these "mistake" properties and it's not easy. Even after a full rehab and a really attractive price just over 100k it is not easy. I remember one specific house, that I had to sell 3 times to make it to closing. One buyer just ghosted, the next fell through on financing. The agents these buyers used are rather useless, to put it kindly.

    I used to own a few properties in C- areas in Milwaukee years ago and those where far from being in a bad area, but still similar issues. I sold them rent to own, but what is really critical is to coach the tenants throughout the year to improve their credit and if necessary to help with the down payment (security deposit) to get the closing done when the time comes. Needless to say we have not bought anything less than class B ever since.

    I would stay clear from seller financing; you may have to take the property back if they stop paying. Better to bring in a bank loan and be done with it!

  • Investor · Columbus, GA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    You should either jump ship, or renew your commitment to the business. I would fire the property manager and manage the property myself, since it's the only one you have. A vacant property in a rough neighborhood will be vandalized, as you now know. I would fix it, and manage it myself or quit. Nobody will take care of your property better than you.

  • V.G JasonPro Member
    Investor · Member since 2022 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:
    Quote from @V.G Jason:
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:
    Quote from @Jewel B.:
    Quote from @Theresa Harris:

    If the tenants were legally evicted and keep breaking in, set up camera, simple security alarm and call the police.  They are breaking and entering plain and simple.

    Talk to a real estate agent and sell it.


     Agreed, though they'll probably steal the cameras too smh


     If the images are uploaded to the cloud, then it won't matter...you will have that recorded as well.  Other option is pay a security service to set up shop inside and bust them when they come in.


     Bust them and do what, lay hands? You're just creating a bigger mess. Cut your losses, get some legal advice on what you need to do with your property and property management. Don't create more issues. Sell, if I was you I would creatively sell--offer seller financing. You likely locked in 3%-ish, offer 6% or 1-2% less than market. See if someone bites to give you more value for the house but you even state you'd make small profit. That should be good enough, this isn't worth the baggage at all.


     They are breaking and entering.  Call the cops once they enter and let the police deal with it.


     And what would police do, if they even show up on time for this? Literally nothing to solve the issue the OP has stated. 

  • John MorganPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Ravi Chhabra

    I’ve had similar issues with a couple rentals. I had some guy get the last ones out at gun point and threw all their stuff out after they refused to leave. Then change the locks and secure the house. I’m sick of dead beat tenants taking advantage of landlords. The house was **** roach infested and nasty. The other one got hung up with the eviction moratorium in 2020. Both houses now have great tenants who take great care of the houses. I’d hang in there, fix it up to rent out again. You’ll be looking great with the next tenant who’ll be paying off your mortgage and giving you monthly cash flow at the same time. Good luck!

  • Member since 2020 · 2 posts · 6 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Benjamin Aaker:
    Is this property in a bad part of town? Your post seems to indicate it is. If you don't feel safe there, then you should sell. Make sure the former tenants are truly out. Engage law enforcement. Put up some cameras. These are cheap nowadays.
    Don't let this bad experience sour you on real estate investing. Everyone has bad tenants or even bad property managers from time to time. Find a property in a better part of town and use the proceeds of the sale on this one to roll into the next one. Sorry about the bad experience but it will hopefully be a great story you tell a podcaster some day.

    I really appreciate everyone's view on the situation. To answer some of the questions I've read along the thread, the property zip code is 19124. Based on the mapping of Philly zip codes Jewel shared, it's a D rated neighborhood...  Based on posts I'm reading, it seems like it may be best to sell out of this neighborhood to not deal with the headache. I agree that it's better to self manage so I need to educate myself on the process in time for the next property. 

    Unfortunately I'm not having an easy time collecting the security deposit from my PM but once I get the funds that are owed to me, I can start working with a RE agent who knows the area and can provide some much needed guidance. 

  • Investor · Member since 2021 · 591 posts · 695 votes
    3y

    @Ravi Chhabra sorry to hear about this--that's the type of situation that would make any new investor (and a lot of seasoned investors) want to sell and run as far away from RE as possible.

    At the end of most BP podcasts, they ask the guest "what separates successful investors from those who give up, fail, or never get started?"  ...one of the most common answers is "perseverance" --the ability to repeatedly bounce back time, and time again from failures (especially really big failures).

    Back when I was a relatively inexperienced investor, I got a 2 am phone call from a tenant. The finished basement (which included bedrooms their children were occupying) was flooded with 6 inches of water! Worst of all, it was ground water--coming up from underneath the foundation of the house, and there was no way to stop the flooding...I eventually discovered that the entire house was built on top of a subterranean river.  That's a problem that isn't easily resolved!

    Every bone in my body wanted to sell the house, sell all of my properties, and quit RE investing.  The next several months were extremely stressful; the tenants left, I watched my bank account dwindle, and I spent every waking hour trying to figure out a solution. ...for weeks, I thought I was headed for bankruptcy, and I assumed the entire house would need to be razed (who would buy a house that has regular, unpreventable floods?). Plenty of people made fun of me for this debacle... It was one of the most demoralizing experiences of my life.  I felt like a complete failure.

    Eventually, after a LOT of work, I was able to solve the problem (a long story). It's been 5 years--during which time we've had the rainiest spring on record--and the house has never flooded again. Today, that property is the highest cashflowing property in my portfolio.

    If I had given up, I'd still be totally financially dependent on a W2 job...but, because I kept grinding, I'm now happy to say I'm financially independent. Almost all RE investors experience some type of catastrophe at some point in their careers--failure in RE is virtually inevitable...RE is a tough game, for tough people.

    Now, does this mean you should keep this property? I have no idea; that's for you to decide
    ... If it's A or B class in an A or B neighborhood, then I'd likely assume those tenants were a fluke...but, if it's C class or lower, it might be a sign that this property, and this neighborhood, attract some pretty shady characters (and that's a problem that I don't want to deal with for any amount of money). ...based on your description, it sounds like it's C class or lower...

    Regardless of what you decide to do, there's probably a LOT you can learn from this situation, so it's worth taking the time to figure out what lessons can be learned (probably lessons about location & property selection, tenant screening, PM management, etc.) It's also considering the first year--which you said went pretty smoothly...why did the first year go so well? ...and why did the whole thing nosedive so abruptly? ...are there lessons to be learned from that? (probably). 

    Try to learn as much as possible, and try to stay solution-focused...I don't know what the solution is, but I can guarantee you there is SOME solution to the problem. ...and usually, finding the solution requires some very frank conversations with people and professionals you trust. For instance, when my house was flooding, I had a LOT of serious conversations with a realtor, a hydrologist, a GC, etc....none of those people gave me the solution, but our discussions helped me think through the various potential solutions, and eventually zero in on one that worked.

    As the saying goes: "you alone can do it, but you can't do it alone"

    Good luck out there!

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    BUY CLASS A/B PROPERTIES ONLY! ESPECIALLY IF OUT OF STATE! If theres equity left in the deal sell it and re-invest. 

    These issues simply will not happen in class A/B, no one will be risking getting arrested climbing in windows. I have never even had a late payment and none of my northside chicago clients have ever had to do an eviction. 

  • Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2018 · 188 posts · 54 votes
    3y

    I would say no. Keep on pushing and keep a positive attitude about everything that is going on. I myself get discouraged with my real estate investing journey. 

  • Henry ClarkPro Member
    Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    Depending on your family situation I would sell and then do a house hack or BRRRR. You get the same learning experience except going through a PM. Have more control. Don't have to pay taxes if you sell and live there longer than two years. Run the numbers.

    There is every reason for you to fail.  As mentioned.  Perseverance. 

  • Real Estate Broker · 3412 S. Harlem Avenue Riverside, IL 60546 · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    3y

    @Ravi Chhabra this sounds like a tough experience for sure. To keep people out of the property while you are rehabbing, there are some pretty creative ways. My favorite that a lot of folks here in Chicago use are dogs. You literally rent a bunch of big, mean dogs from someone that keeps them, and this keeps everyone out. You also can hire someone from the neighborhood to watch over the house or even stay there for you. Unfortunately, most PM companies are just not set up to take over your property in this situation. Leasing a house out or providing maintenance services are pretty far from all-out war with squatters... hands on is the only way. 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.