Lifestyles Unlimited…your opinions...???
Real Estate Agent · Realtor - Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 342 posts · 55 votes
Hello Fellow BP'rs….
Anybody have experience with this real estate club?…seems to me that they are another "guru" type club grabbing for your money. I have been to a couple of meetings and have heard a sales pitch both times.
I get a strange feeling from this club and it has a "cult-ish" feel to it. I did join the base membership ($400) and basically got access to their website and education…but, if you want more, you have to pay more!!!
Yes…I reacted out of emotion and jumped into the program. I wish I had waited a week and then evaluated my interest at that time. (Like suggested in the "Beginners Guide")…still learning in this journey called - LIFE.
The ($400) membership comes with a weekend seminar…that is basically a sales pitch for there "stepped-up" program. That is what I have heard, but I may be wrong.
I'm not mad at this company, nor am I trying to bash it…I am just curious what others feel about it?…is it really worth the money to join clubs like this?
Thanks.
I'm a current member and will give you my thoughts. I joined after attending Del's two day class at the upgraded PIG membership simply because the multifamily route was a no-brainer to me. The education that is available on their website is extremely detailed, and I have not found it elsewhere. Some of the videos are not terribly professional, and some could be updated, but there's a lot of content. Many of the classes I have been to have been just ok, while some were very good. Several have said that everything they offer is available at BP; I strongly disagree, speaking strictly about evaluating, buying, rehabbing, operating, and exiting an apartment property of 60 units and up.
Here's the biggest thing: Several times a month I am in the same room with like-minded individuals who have money to invest, have been educated and would easily meet the SEC "sophisticated investor" criteria, and that I have an existing relationship with; also an SEC requirement. Of course I could go out and get other investors without them but it would be much more difficult. I'm sure there are people in such a position to have tons of wealthy friends that trust them due to their job or whatever and could do it easily, but not me.
Another poster was correct when they said Lifestyles will not call you after you join, you HAVE to make it known what you are looking for, and stay after them. If you have $50 or $100K to invest you can definitely get into a property with a few other investors, but you are going to have to make it happen. They will not just give you a big list of available properties and say here ya go. One benefit to joining for me is their relationships with local multifamily brokers. You have a much better chance of being taken seriously going through them than you do as a random individual they don't know. The problem in DFW right now is that people all over the country are paying stupid prices for our available apartments and making it very difficult to get offers accepted. That is not Lifestyles fault, but hopefully they aren't selling memberships and telling people otherwise.
There are some "rules" I don't like at Lifestyles, but they are in place to protect the passive investors. My biggest problem is that if all you want to do is be a passive investor, with no desire to sponsor your own deal, you still have to join at the $12000 (or $15000 if no special at the time) level. Thats not terribly fair. HOWEVER--there are MANY I now know and consider friends that are THRILLED with the returns they've gotten by doing just that. Again, its getting tougher as the REO properties dry up and competition is crazy here, but they've made a killing the last few years.
I know that BP is VERY anti "guru," and pretty negative about paying anybody for anything, so I guess I better say what its done for me. I've spent almost a year now immersing myself in learning the apartment business. I wish I would have jumped in and gotten involved sooner because I likely blew it on several properties I could have been a part of right now. I'm not like that. I'm an extreme type B that has to learn and analyze a ton before moving. For the last 3 or 4 months I've been actively searching for and touring properties. I've made one offer on a 108 unit property at $2.6M dollars, and currently have one in on a 60 unit at $2.3M, and there are two more properties I'm seriously looking at. There is absolutely NO WAY I would have EVER been able to say that without the education I've gotten over the last year. I do not have the funds to purchase a deal like that on my own, but am comfortable making offers because I have a large list of qualified investors I've spent a ton of time building over the last year. This is STRICTLY due to the groups that I paid to belong to.
Full disclosure on all this is that I also have been working with another "guru" in town. Again, I'm the type that can't get enough information. But once the decision was made to involve other people's money, I looked at the expense as insurance to protect them. It has already paid off in keeping me OUT of a deal that I was prepared to make an offer on. I won't go into a lot of detail, but @James Mudd send me a message if you want more insight and I'd be happy to meet with you.
Eric were you in Los Angeles last February at the syndication event with the Real Estate Guys? You look like someone I met while attending that even. If so, glad to see your still doing well in real estate.
Another poster was correct when they said Lifestyles will not call you after you join, you HAVE to make it known what you are looking for, and stay after them. If you have $50 or $100K to invest you can definitely get into a property with a few other investors, but you are going to have to make it happen. They will not just give you a big list of available properties and say here ya go. One benefit to joining for me is their relationships with local multifamily brokers. You have a much better chance of being taken seriously going through them than you do as a random individual they don't know. The problem in DFW right now is that people all over the country are paying stupid prices for our available apartments and making it very difficult to get offers accepted. That is not Lifestyles fault, but hopefully they aren't selling memberships and telling people otherwise.
There are some "rules" I don't like at Lifestyles, but they are in place to protect the passive investors. My biggest problem is that if all you want to do is be a passive investor, with no desire to sponsor your own deal, you still have to join at the $12000 (or $15000 if no special at the time) level. Thats not terribly fair. HOWEVER--there are MANY I now know and consider friends that are THRILLED with the returns they've gotten by doing just that. Again, its getting tougher as the REO properties dry up and competition is crazy here, but they've made a killing the last few years.
I know that BP is VERY anti "guru," and pretty negative about paying anybody for anything, so I guess I better say what its done for me. I've spent almost a year now immersing myself in learning the apartment business. I wish I would have jumped in and gotten involved sooner because I likely blew it on several properties I could have been a part of right now. I'm not like that. I'm an extreme type B that has to learn and analyze a ton before moving. For the last 3 or 4 months I've been actively searching for and touring properties. I've made one offer on a 108 unit property at $2.6M dollars, and currently have one in on a 60 unit at $2.3M, and there are two more properties I'm seriously looking at. There is absolutely NO WAY I would have EVER been able to say that without the education I've gotten over the last year. I do not have the funds to purchase a deal like that on my own, but am comfortable making offers because I have a large list of qualified investors I've spent a ton of time building over the last year. This is STRICTLY due to the groups that I paid to belong to.
Full disclosure on all this is that I also have been working with another "guru" in town. Again, I'm the type that can't get enough information. But once the decision was made to involve other people's money, I looked at the expense as insurance to protect them. It has already paid off in keeping me OUT of a deal that I was prepared to make an offer on. I won't go into a lot of detail, but @James Mudd send me a message if you want more insight and I'd be happy to meet with you.
This is pretty much spot on by @Tom Lafferty in my opinion of course. I am a LU member as well. Not a PIG, but a Challenge member. I love BP but I also like my local RE groups where I can go and discuss with others face to face.
i listen to the guys podcasts which arent so bad. dont know umuch more
Here's my take. I'm a current LU member (PIG) member, but I live in Atlanta. I flew out to San Antonio last year (November) to attend the two day class David Fisher gave. During the class we were told if you have under 50,000 then you need to stay with SF investments. If you had 50,000 to 100,000 to invest then you needed go multi-family. I fully intended on buying an apartment complex in central Texas, and still will at some point. I travel to that area at least once a year and love it. At the end of the two day class I signed up for the PIG membership which was 10,000. I strongly regret doing that now. The reasons are after I joined and inquired about multi-family, I was told that 100,000 wasn't enough to get into a decent size complex, and there's no way to manage a smaller one from a distance. I know that was not correct info that I received from the "mentor." I could really use that 10,000 now to put into other deals.
Then there was the Atlanta debacle. I feel for the people in Atlanta that went to the free classes and signed up for memberships based on the fact that they were told repeatedly, "We are coming to Atlanta, it's a done deal, our office will be opening in November of 2013 or December of 2013 at the latest, but we are coming for sure." Then suddenly without warning and e-mail was sent out last week stating things have changed, we're now not coming to Atlanta. Just the day before that e-mail, I sent a message to one of the "mentors" and asked what the status of the Atlanta office was, since they had stopped mentioning it on the radio show. I was told, "Del is coming in February for his class." That person knew full well at that point that the office wasn't going to open, but chose not to say anything.
I just thought the way all of that was handled was very poor and unprofessional. I still intend on working with them at some point to purchase a multi-family in Texas, because I know others who have done that very thing and they seemed to be satisfied with them, and the service they offer when it comes to buying a large multi-family project. But, they live in Texas near their properties as well. For 10,000 you don't get much. I expected a phone call at least at some point to ask what the goals were, how to get there, what help can we provide, etc. etc. But to my surprise, there hasn't been any of that. Once you pay any amount of money, that's it, it's all on you to take action, which is fine I can do that. But don't have any illusions that they're going to bend over backwards to help. An e-mail went out a few days ago from them congratulating a couple on their first multi-family purchase. I sent a response back and asked if the details would be published, or was it simply going to be a case study at a Texas office. I was told it would be a case study later in Texas. That kinda fly's in the face of saying you're a National or International group.
As I've said before, if you live in Texas and close to one of their offices, it may be a good deal at the basic level. But there's a lot of pressure to buy from their realtors, and keep everything in house. If you live outside of Texas, don't spend the money. Everything you need can be found right here on BP. The thing I like about BP versus a lot of other "guru groups" is that members here love sharing their deals and numbers from start to finish with everyone, the good the bad and the ugly. I'm determined that my 10,000 won't be wasted, so in time I will have a large MF in central Texas, it's just a matter or reassessing what I thought would happen, versus what I have to make happen.
Hope this helps.
Hearing a fair amount here about people spending 10k on guru classes. I really feel you would be much better off applying it toward a down payment on a single family or a duplex. Finding a good property manager can help you get into a non local market. Seems like so many people want to get into a crowded apartment market when returns can be higher on the single families and barriers to entry are much smaller. After you get some smaller properties under your belt and build up your confidence and asset base, then work your way into a larger property. Doesn't have to be complicated - learn as you do. And yes there are lenders that work on smaller properties (<$50k deals). I found one on here. Contact me if you want more info.
'Hearing a fair amount here about people spending 10k on guru classes. I really feel you would be much better off applying it toward a down payment on a single family or a duplex.'
I agree. You can get a lot of help in this forum to help you invest wisely.
'Hearing a fair amount here about people spending 10k on guru classes. I really feel you would be much better off applying it toward a down payment on a single family or a duplex.'
I agree. You can get a lot of help in this forum to help you invest wisely.
Absolutely Joe, as well as from a good investment-minded broker and/or property manager
My experience with Lifestyles is they push everyone into rentals in TX. That is not an option I wish to pursue.
I have no relationship with LU or any other company outside my own companies. I have heard of them and had some investors I work with complain about their sales tactics, but I'm not sure what those investors expected when they go to a free seminar put on by a Guru. I believe you can't be sold to (or even taken advantage of) unless you really want too. Anyone who believes they're going to a free seminar for anything other than be sold a product or service is naive.
Seems to be that the bottom line is that if you "think" you've received value from a Guru, company or entity, that's all that matters...it's your money. Can you get that same value at a much lower financial cost or possibly for free? Maybe. Does it matter to most who have paid a heavy price and know they can't get those funds back? Probably not...what's done is done.
I won't knock those who pay thousands of dollars for a service as long they won't knock me for taking another path.
Perception is a powerful thing and for many, perception is reality irrespective of which side of the issue you're on.
Maybe LU is not for everyone, but for me it has been the best investment I've made so far. I live in McAllen, TX, a 4 hr drive to San Antonio. My take was that the SA market was/is much better that here in my area, so I needed help finding good deals. I've been a member for over a year and a half now as a Preferred Investor, and I've purchased 4 SF with their help and I plan to sell (3) of them this year as they have appreciated well and jump to MF.
At first it was scary paying the money to become a member but I can truly say it has definitely paid off for me, I intend to be a member for a long time.
I joined Lifestyles Unlimited in April and just completed the 2 day seminar today. My thoughts...I'm disappointed. The information was very generic and could be found in any real estate book, BP post or Youtube real estate video.
It was a two day sales pitch that I've heard from other local real estate "gurus" offered all for the low low price of $20,000. The other thing I didn't Iike is that they teach a delayed flip. Purchase a property, do a complete rehab, refinance and then sell in a year.
I will attend the case studies and use the member discounts but do not plan to upgrade to the challenger of MF level.
This is my 2nd multi day seminar (I went to a 3 day seminar for another program). I feel like I am wasting my time looking for an experienced successful mentor who is not trying to wrangle 20k from me closed fists.
I posted this in another LU thread: I received a call from Lifestyles Unlimited today to provide feedback on the 2 day seminar we just attended. I told them truthfully how I felt about the seminar. They were understanding and encouraged me to take advantage of the Q&A that the $500 membership level provides. Basically I can call select investors and ask them questions for the next two years as part of my membership. I am going to definitely take advantage of this benefit.
I'm an LU PIG, and just funded my 4th MF investment as a passive today, w/ 2 more coming over the next couple of months. I've looked @ MF syndication opportunities outside of Lifestyles, and appreciate the guidelines they put in place to protect passives. It's obviously not for everyone, but I intend to remain a customer as long as they continue to deliver the value they have so far.
Hey Tera.
I don't live in Texas, so I have only seen the online class. (Recording of a live one.) There is a total of 15½ hours, of which only at the very end was the up sell.
There are 3 levels of membership, and most (80+%) don't ever go above the FFP level. (According to their radio show.) The first level is the education. They teach you what to do, and you go do it. It also has a hotline to call and ask questions. If the information was too generic, ask specifics. You can attend the class anytime they have it as long as your membership is active, which it sounds like 2 years for you. They also have their hotline so you can ask questions, although they won't analyze deals for you. (Write your questions down before calling. It sucks to call them up, forget half your questions, only to have them pop back into your head once you hang up.)
The next level is Challenge. Here they will analyze deals, as long as another member has not tagged that deal. (They don't want members pitted against each other.) They will help you find deals, and do a little more hand holding. There are a few more online classes available, and road trips to see properties before and after.
If your fine doing all the work yourself, there is no reason to move to the Challenge level.
Next level is the P.I.G. (Preferred Investor Group.) I just upgraded to that in February. You get everything in Challenge, plus they deal with Multi Family properties. (MF) They facilitate the meeting of members so they can put deals together (within the confines of the SEC, they make this clear,) and they consult on everything. I feel better knowing that this large of an organization, with their experience is there to help with these million to multi-million dollar projects.
I recently went on a MF road trip (May 15) and it is so beneficial to actually see a property in person, and meet the people who did the deal. No matter how much you read, or hear about these things, actually being there makes it real.
But this is really for people who have a decent amount of money to invest. They say at least $50K, so you should have at least that after any membership fee.
If you're not going to be doing the Multi-Family deals, there's no reason to do the highest membership. In fact I think it's a good idea to do single family deals, and make enough doing that to pay for the P.I.G. membership.
And I don't think a delayed flip is exactly correct. Flippers are about making money on the rehab, and technically you could use their technique to do this, just sell instead of renting out. They are more about the cash flow. The benefits are income from the rental, tax deductions from depreciation, mortgage deductions, and the equity buildup from the pay down of the mortgage. They don't say to sell in a year, but that you should wait at least a year, preferably 2, then you can use a 1031 exchange to move the equity to another property without having to pay any tax. (If done right.)
But not everybody sells their property after a year or two. It really depends on what your goals are, but many simply keep buying property, and hold them for as long as the tax benefits keep going. Many people are perfectly happy with the profits from 10+ houses, and never move further then that.
I say just keep with it. Go to all any any event they have. Watch the classes online, and call them until you are satisfied with the answers. You have the membership, take advantage of it.
In conversations with previous Lifestyles Unlimited members, the message is consistent: you'll either blame LU because you did not succeed or you'll think you succeeded in spite of them.
If you learn better by having someone hold your hand, walk you through the process, help you identify properties, negotiate on your behalf, make warm introductions to other investors, I'd recommend LU. However, there is a substantial cost to be in the club.
If you prefer to do all of the work yourself, and prefer free, Bigger Pockets is he way to go.
It ultimately comes down to what works best for you.
Bill Gulley
Do you work for bigger pockets?