Lifestyles Unlimited…your opinions...???
Real Estate Agent · Realtor - Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 342 posts · 55 votes
Hello Fellow BP'rs….
Anybody have experience with this real estate club?…seems to me that they are another "guru" type club grabbing for your money. I have been to a couple of meetings and have heard a sales pitch both times.
I get a strange feeling from this club and it has a "cult-ish" feel to it. I did join the base membership ($400) and basically got access to their website and education…but, if you want more, you have to pay more!!!
Yes…I reacted out of emotion and jumped into the program. I wish I had waited a week and then evaluated my interest at that time. (Like suggested in the "Beginners Guide")…still learning in this journey called - LIFE.
The ($400) membership comes with a weekend seminar…that is basically a sales pitch for there "stepped-up" program. That is what I have heard, but I may be wrong.
I'm not mad at this company, nor am I trying to bash it…I am just curious what others feel about it?…is it really worth the money to join clubs like this?
Thanks.
I'm a current member and will give you my thoughts. I joined after attending Del's two day class at the upgraded PIG membership simply because the multifamily route was a no-brainer to me. The education that is available on their website is extremely detailed, and I have not found it elsewhere. Some of the videos are not terribly professional, and some could be updated, but there's a lot of content. Many of the classes I have been to have been just ok, while some were very good. Several have said that everything they offer is available at BP; I strongly disagree, speaking strictly about evaluating, buying, rehabbing, operating, and exiting an apartment property of 60 units and up.
Here's the biggest thing: Several times a month I am in the same room with like-minded individuals who have money to invest, have been educated and would easily meet the SEC "sophisticated investor" criteria, and that I have an existing relationship with; also an SEC requirement. Of course I could go out and get other investors without them but it would be much more difficult. I'm sure there are people in such a position to have tons of wealthy friends that trust them due to their job or whatever and could do it easily, but not me.
Another poster was correct when they said Lifestyles will not call you after you join, you HAVE to make it known what you are looking for, and stay after them. If you have $50 or $100K to invest you can definitely get into a property with a few other investors, but you are going to have to make it happen. They will not just give you a big list of available properties and say here ya go. One benefit to joining for me is their relationships with local multifamily brokers. You have a much better chance of being taken seriously going through them than you do as a random individual they don't know. The problem in DFW right now is that people all over the country are paying stupid prices for our available apartments and making it very difficult to get offers accepted. That is not Lifestyles fault, but hopefully they aren't selling memberships and telling people otherwise.
There are some "rules" I don't like at Lifestyles, but they are in place to protect the passive investors. My biggest problem is that if all you want to do is be a passive investor, with no desire to sponsor your own deal, you still have to join at the $12000 (or $15000 if no special at the time) level. Thats not terribly fair. HOWEVER--there are MANY I now know and consider friends that are THRILLED with the returns they've gotten by doing just that. Again, its getting tougher as the REO properties dry up and competition is crazy here, but they've made a killing the last few years.
I know that BP is VERY anti "guru," and pretty negative about paying anybody for anything, so I guess I better say what its done for me. I've spent almost a year now immersing myself in learning the apartment business. I wish I would have jumped in and gotten involved sooner because I likely blew it on several properties I could have been a part of right now. I'm not like that. I'm an extreme type B that has to learn and analyze a ton before moving. For the last 3 or 4 months I've been actively searching for and touring properties. I've made one offer on a 108 unit property at $2.6M dollars, and currently have one in on a 60 unit at $2.3M, and there are two more properties I'm seriously looking at. There is absolutely NO WAY I would have EVER been able to say that without the education I've gotten over the last year. I do not have the funds to purchase a deal like that on my own, but am comfortable making offers because I have a large list of qualified investors I've spent a ton of time building over the last year. This is STRICTLY due to the groups that I paid to belong to.
Full disclosure on all this is that I also have been working with another "guru" in town. Again, I'm the type that can't get enough information. But once the decision was made to involve other people's money, I looked at the expense as insurance to protect them. It has already paid off in keeping me OUT of a deal that I was prepared to make an offer on. I won't go into a lot of detail, but @James Mudd send me a message if you want more insight and I'd be happy to meet with you.
I do not need to know any more about them than the name to give them the thumbs down. They are selling the sizzle not the steak
Sometimes, free speech should be illegal, like yelling fire in a theater. :)
Several existing threads about this company.
There are several discussions about this already...just do a search.
It is tempting sometimes to want to join some program under the assumption that it's going to make everything easy, or someone is going to provide you with some sort of guidance.
But always keep this in mind: All the information about REI that you could EVER want is FREE....and it's right here on BP or at any of the local REI clubs, of which there are a ton in DFW.
…thank you for the responses guys…probably should have done a search first…I found plenty of info about this topic !!!
@James Mudd Howdy. I was a member of Lifestyles Unlimited in Houston back in 2006 & 2007. I joined, along with some partners, to learn how to invest in multi-family deals and to get help walking through a deal like that. I did not know about BiggerPockets at the time. I appreciated the education I received at Lifestyles and the coaching by the mentors. I ended up meeting a few other people and investing in a multi-family apartment as a passive investor. I am still in that deal today. Everything taught by Lifestyles is here on BP. This is an amazing source. And the networking can be done at your local meetups, of which there are at least a few in Dallas. I can't speak to the Dallas Lifestyles club, but the Houston Lifestyles club is worth the $400 investment I believe when you are just starting out. I am not currently a member of Lifestyles because they teach a buy and hold strategy. I am working on starting a new business using a fix and flip strategy.
I'll be happy to share more details of my personal experience if you like. Just send me a message. I would not spend any more money on membership at the club, but definitely take advantage of what you have paid for already! And in the spirit of this week, let's all be thankful for BiggerPockets!
Thank you Lucas…I agree, BP is great and I wish I had known about it before. I also agree that the info I received from LU is worth the money I paid…so I will get the most out of that level of membership…again, thank you for the response and have a nice Thanksgiving…!!!
Though I did not find them through LU I have a business relationship with 2 top tier LU vendors, one is a roofing contractor and the other a property manager. Both i really enjoy doing business with.
I hear a lot of good about LU on the multifamily side and have worked with a few of its members attempting to put together multifamily deals, but my interactions with its people on the single family buy and hold side is they are typically under prepared for what lay ahead of them.
Here's my take. I'm a current LU member (PIG) member, but I live in Atlanta. I flew out to San Antonio last year (November) to attend the two day class David Fisher gave. During the class we were told if you have under 50,000 then you need to stay with SF investments. If you had 50,000 to 100,000 to invest then you needed go multi-family. I fully intended on buying an apartment complex in central Texas, and still will at some point. I travel to that area at least once a year and love it. At the end of the two day class I signed up for the PIG membership which was 10,000. I strongly regret doing that now. The reasons are after I joined and inquired about multi-family, I was told that 100,000 wasn't enough to get into a decent size complex, and there's no way to manage a smaller one from a distance. I know that was not correct info that I received from the "mentor." I could really use that 10,000 now to put into other deals.
Then there was the Atlanta debacle. I feel for the people in Atlanta that went to the free classes and signed up for memberships based on the fact that they were told repeatedly, "We are coming to Atlanta, it's a done deal, our office will be opening in November of 2013 or December of 2013 at the latest, but we are coming for sure." Then suddenly without warning and e-mail was sent out last week stating things have changed, we're now not coming to Atlanta. Just the day before that e-mail, I sent a message to one of the "mentors" and asked what the status of the Atlanta office was, since they had stopped mentioning it on the radio show. I was told, "Del is coming in February for his class." That person knew full well at that point that the office wasn't going to open, but chose not to say anything.
I just thought the way all of that was handled was very poor and unprofessional. I still intend on working with them at some point to purchase a multi-family in Texas, because I know others who have done that very thing and they seemed to be satisfied with them, and the service they offer when it comes to buying a large multi-family project. But, they live in Texas near their properties as well. For 10,000 you don't get much. I expected a phone call at least at some point to ask what the goals were, how to get there, what help can we provide, etc. etc. But to my surprise, there hasn't been any of that. Once you pay any amount of money, that's it, it's all on you to take action, which is fine I can do that. But don't have any illusions that they're going to bend over backwards to help. An e-mail went out a few days ago from them congratulating a couple on their first multi-family purchase. I sent a response back and asked if the details would be published, or was it simply going to be a case study at a Texas office. I was told it would be a case study later in Texas. That kinda fly's in the face of saying you're a National or International group.
As I've said before, if you live in Texas and close to one of their offices, it may be a good deal at the basic level. But there's a lot of pressure to buy from their realtors, and keep everything in house. If you live outside of Texas, don't spend the money. Everything you need can be found right here on BP. The thing I like about BP versus a lot of other "guru groups" is that members here love sharing their deals and numbers from start to finish with everyone, the good the bad and the ugly. I'm determined that my 10,000 won't be wasted, so in time I will have a large MF in central Texas, it's just a matter or reassessing what I thought would happen, versus what I have to make happen.
Hope this helps.
I think Thomas Williamson's assessment is correct for out of state investors if you want to be a lead investor in an apartment deal. If you want to be a passive investor in an apartment deal with a Lifestyles lead investor in Texas then the PIG membership will allow you to do that. You can then take your knowledge as a passive investor (syndication paperwork, evaluation proformas etc...) to your home market and replicate it.
I am a PIG member myself and I find the multi family classes (on line and in person) to be completely invaluable. The repository of classes is not replicated anywhere else, add to that the due diligence check lists for evaluating a large multi family property and the classes associated with that, and I think it is worth more than 10K. (I go to seminars on a regular basis as part of continuing education so I have many other points of reference).
For most people the basic membership is well worth it even if you are out of state, b/c the 2 day class (at least Del's in Houston), is a 16 hour doctorate level education on buy and hold real estate in single and multi family investing that is unlike any other. The 2 day class is worth the $500 by itself.
I'm a current member and will give you my thoughts. I joined after attending Del's two day class at the upgraded PIG membership simply because the multifamily route was a no-brainer to me. The education that is available on their website is extremely detailed, and I have not found it elsewhere. Some of the videos are not terribly professional, and some could be updated, but there's a lot of content. Many of the classes I have been to have been just ok, while some were very good. Several have said that everything they offer is available at BP; I strongly disagree, speaking strictly about evaluating, buying, rehabbing, operating, and exiting an apartment property of 60 units and up.
Here's the biggest thing: Several times a month I am in the same room with like-minded individuals who have money to invest, have been educated and would easily meet the SEC "sophisticated investor" criteria, and that I have an existing relationship with; also an SEC requirement. Of course I could go out and get other investors without them but it would be much more difficult. I'm sure there are people in such a position to have tons of wealthy friends that trust them due to their job or whatever and could do it easily, but not me.
Another poster was correct when they said Lifestyles will not call you after you join, you HAVE to make it known what you are looking for, and stay after them. If you have $50 or $100K to invest you can definitely get into a property with a few other investors, but you are going to have to make it happen. They will not just give you a big list of available properties and say here ya go. One benefit to joining for me is their relationships with local multifamily brokers. You have a much better chance of being taken seriously going through them than you do as a random individual they don't know. The problem in DFW right now is that people all over the country are paying stupid prices for our available apartments and making it very difficult to get offers accepted. That is not Lifestyles fault, but hopefully they aren't selling memberships and telling people otherwise.
There are some "rules" I don't like at Lifestyles, but they are in place to protect the passive investors. My biggest problem is that if all you want to do is be a passive investor, with no desire to sponsor your own deal, you still have to join at the $12000 (or $15000 if no special at the time) level. Thats not terribly fair. HOWEVER--there are MANY I now know and consider friends that are THRILLED with the returns they've gotten by doing just that. Again, its getting tougher as the REO properties dry up and competition is crazy here, but they've made a killing the last few years.
I know that BP is VERY anti "guru," and pretty negative about paying anybody for anything, so I guess I better say what its done for me. I've spent almost a year now immersing myself in learning the apartment business. I wish I would have jumped in and gotten involved sooner because I likely blew it on several properties I could have been a part of right now. I'm not like that. I'm an extreme type B that has to learn and analyze a ton before moving. For the last 3 or 4 months I've been actively searching for and touring properties. I've made one offer on a 108 unit property at $2.6M dollars, and currently have one in on a 60 unit at $2.3M, and there are two more properties I'm seriously looking at. There is absolutely NO WAY I would have EVER been able to say that without the education I've gotten over the last year. I do not have the funds to purchase a deal like that on my own, but am comfortable making offers because I have a large list of qualified investors I've spent a ton of time building over the last year. This is STRICTLY due to the groups that I paid to belong to.
Full disclosure on all this is that I also have been working with another "guru" in town. Again, I'm the type that can't get enough information. But once the decision was made to involve other people's money, I looked at the expense as insurance to protect them. It has already paid off in keeping me OUT of a deal that I was prepared to make an offer on. I won't go into a lot of detail, but @James Mudd send me a message if you want more insight and I'd be happy to meet with you.
Tom, I didn't get far in that post before I was compelled to reply. There is nothing of any reasonable value contained in any "program" or "strategy" in residential or multi-family that can not be found or addressed on BP. There may well be information that is not on BP, but that would only be due to the question never being asked.
We all know gurus don't spill the beans in public without being compensated, but I'd challenge any guru, coach, author or mentor to basically pose any aspect in any area of real estate that could not be sufficiently and thoroughly discussed here by members, just pose the question.
If the right question is asked here on BP, there is nothing in residential real estate that can not be properly answered. We may not be Phds, but there are enough members on BP to drill down in any subject you like.
Just a question too, you said you were a student or had a relationship with this company yet you didn't answer yes in the disclosure asking if you "have any relationship with the company", why would that be? :)
Aw geez. This is why I have not wanted to reply to any LU posts in the past. I do not want to argue with anyone about the value of this. I absolutely see the value in BP, and its an amazing resource. Here's the thing though: to replicate what I am getting through my paid mentor, I would have to post about a million questions, sift through as many answers, many of which would be completely opposite opinions. Not to mention the fact that many would not apply to my local market. I seriously doubt you would be willing to take me, as a beginner with no experience in multifamily, and present me deals, show me step by step how to analyze them, tour the properties with me, come up with a detailed rehab budget, negotiate with the selling broker, help me with ALL my questions regarding the improvement and operation of the property, and then guide me through all aspects of the sale. Nor would I ever ask you to. This is what I paid for, and am currently receiving. When I was looking to start in single family I was completely fine using only BP as a resource. There is no way I would ever consider jumping straight into syndication with no experience without an expert who would meet with me or take an immediate phone call. In fact, I would have thought someone was crazy to even suggest such a thing 11 months ago. I figured apartments were only for billionaires with years of experience. Since then I have met and grilled dozens of people who started exactly that way with no experience and are now on their 3rd and 4th properties. I also know that I would never have passively invested in a deal with a sponsor with no experience without seeing proof that the process worked. It is basically just a little community of people who got together and were able to get into something I would never have gotten into otherwise. I've spent countless hours on BP learning a TON, but would never have jumped into this because of it.
All that to say, I think I could probably get a great deal of the info I need through BP. A lot of it I have not been able to find. I may have been able to find it had I posted more questions, but it would have been very difficult. I have chosen to use a resource that has been doing for many years what I want to be doing, has a great deal of DFW market knowledge, and is still practicing what he preaches.
As for your little dig as to why I didn't click the box, I've never noticed it before. Sorry, I'll click it now. Although, it does say "other than that of a customer." Isn't that what I am in this case? I'll click it for you though.
No problem, it was just the implication that there was some technical RE issue that would be in some program that couldn't be had here.
True, for many BP doesn't rev up the motivational engine like a seminar or some program might, but for many that's a big plus
Not so much of a "dig" as a question of intent, not an issue as you pretty much covered it your post, had I seen the disclosure I might not have read any of it as we get "supporters" here and such just doesn't interest me that much, but your's was good. But, really, you can't post without answering the disclosure question.
Now, I have to answer it again! :)
Wow. I'm sure you wont believe me, but I just tried again and a gray box popped up asking me the question. I guess I clicked without reading it before, because I can honestly say I don't EVER remember answering that question before. I haven't posted in the last few weeks, but is that new?
Oh, I can believe you as sometimes funny things happen, but now it's twice and Harvey's missing it too. You have to click on the window and yes and no appear. you must select what applies, for you an Harvey, it's yes and click on it, then it allows you to post. The disclosure then appears. If you select no, that you have no affiliation, when you post there is no disclosure that appears on that post. So this post was again answered no, where you had to drop down from yes to get to the no response. You'll get use to it. :)
I'll work on that. I don't know why I'm continuing this, but I felt compelled to ask. You said that if there had been a big yellow disclosure banner you would not have read my post? If you were interested enough in the original post to click on it, why on earth would you not want to hear the experiences of people actually involved with the company to get another viewpoint? Obviously you don't have to answer, but it seemed awfully close-minded?
So sorry @James Mudd , I really was trying to help you out! For the record, I have absolutely no regard for whether someone joins LU or not, I have nothing to gain from it. You asked if anyone had experience with the company, so I thought you'd like the account of someone who's actually dealt with them.
And let's be clear, the disclosure clause asks specifically if you have a relationship OTHER than that of a customer, so as customers of Lifestyles Unlimited we are not obligated to answer it even though most of us post in our reply's that we are members.
Thanks for the clarifications from both Tom an Harvey.
I'm just guessing, but I' say the reason for that disclosure has to do with many of the under the radar, soft sell, advocates that post in these topic forums.
I see both of you are rather new. I'm not sure what the term is for these sleeper advocates is for selling commercial interests in forums, but what happens is that someone asks about some company an then you'll see rather new posters jump in with great praise an promote it with personal endorsements, some get paid to do so.
So, new posters are often suspect since they are unknown in the forums.
I suppose I may be a little a little closed-minded in that respect but it comes from years on here with thousands of posts an the experiences with these promoters.
You are correct, the question was who has experience with the company. Thanks for your contributions. Generally, we don't get two newer members who give positive reviews, it's unusual as most post negatively about guru programs. So, hope you see that what we do here is make an attempt to vet folks as a means to "protect" newbies from such marketing tactics. Nothing personal guys. :)
I'd just like to say I've met @Tom Lafferty at least twice and had lunch with him, and he's definitely not a shill for LU. I've heard him share these thoughts before. I don't like gurus anymore than the next guy, but in this case, I would submit his review is something akin to spotting a unicorn, an intelligent and honest review of a product/program he has used. I agree with @Bill Gulley that 999/1000 positive reviews of guru programs are almost all by company shills but I don't think this is the case with Tom. To be clear, I'm not vouching in any way for LU, just Tom's integrity.