Has anyone taken his 7 week workshop? I attended a introduction webinar the other day and am interested to hear from those who have signed up for the program.
Thanks!
Interesting. I looked up some (4-5) of their flips (all by the same LLC) since I am familiar with several of the cities in their ad (e.g. Canal Fulton) and I have to say there seems to be no exaggeration in the beginning/end sales numbers. I don't know what they put in as far as repairs, though. Many on the list they put together were properties in Stark and Summit county, OH. And from public record the 4 or 5 I looked at are/were REO purchases as they state.
With the amount they seem to be making (with the claim "without doing any of the work ourselves") in their business, why would they bother with seminars? If I were them, I'd focus on the business at hand. I'd have to think that they believe going forward that seminars will be more profitable than the actual flip business. Maybe they see the end of the REO-giveaway cycle.
If I were a shark on Shark Tank, I'd say: 'Because they can't decide what business they want to be in, I'm out'.
Interesting update
This morning I recieved an email from the Josh Group, with a link to a case study of an awesome HUD, I clicked the link
http://youtu.be/SvSIycTRj78...
and then I recall seeing that same video over a year ago from them. I remember it because his logic seemed especially flawed then and his projected selling price seemed significiantly off. I always find it espeally interesting when he uses houses that have not sold for a "case study". I had followed that house for a few month and it did not sell. Then I forgot about it, piqued my curiosity this morning when I clicked on that year old "new hud deal", so I looked up on mls and here is the history.
Listed it Feb 2014 , 217 days on the market, multiple price drops, it didnt sell, then they withdrew it after seven month. Over a year later, today according to the cuyahoga county site, josh cantwell still owns the property, and hes using it as a video case study of an awesome hud deal. Looks impressive in the video, problem is it never sold!!
40k flip? Proprietary marketing program to sell sell houses at lightning speed? Solid rehab advise? Reliable information? You be the judge.
Interesting update
This morning I recieved an email from the Josh Group, with a link to a case study of an awesome HUD, I clicked the link
http://youtu.be/SvSIycTRj78...
and then I recall seeing that same video over a year ago from them. I remember it because his logic seemed especially flawed then and his projected selling price seemed significiantly off. I always find it espeally interesting when he uses houses that have not sold for a "case study". I had followed that house for a few month and it did not sell. Then I forgot about it, piqued my curiosity this morning when I clicked on that year old "new hud deal", so I looked up on mls and here is the history.
Listed it Feb 2014 , 217 days on the market, multiple price drops, it didnt sell, then they withdrew it after seven month. Over a year later, today according to the cuyahoga county site, josh cantwell still owns the property, and hes using it as a video case study of an awesome hud deal. Looks impressive in the video, problem is it never sold!!
40k flip? Proprietary marketing program to sell sell houses at lightning speed? Solid rehab advise? Reliable information? You be the judge.
Thanks for the informative update. This isn't the first time I've seen this kind of thing from REI educators in their PR (none deserve deity/guru references). Why would they not hide, rather than promote, deals that don't support a story of easy and profitable resales? Internet data is totally imperfect, but you need to resell the properties you say were profitable.....so we can see you sold them. Gotta to finish the rehabs and get them rented if you say they are profitably rented. Gotta get testimonials from satisfied buyers, sellers and student who are transparent in their dealings and can be vetted.
I'm not familiar with the Cuyahoga County tax site, so I could be misreading it. But it also looks like the property is behind in tax payments. I know that some flippers will pay the penalty rather than taxes when it sells... but it's racked up some pretty good taxes and penalties so far.
This is hard stuff. Really is. There is so much more this business than putting out offers and hoping to get paid.
I'm realizing more and more I'm a direct marketing guy. Nothing more. My product is contract sales and Real Estate is merely the vehicle to get from A-B.
How I can find what others are looking for is where I make my money.
That being said. This ENTIRE industry is filled with promises and people who have "secrets/proprietary" stuff that gives them and edge. Now that I think about it, ALL industry has Guru's, "Proprietary Database" etc..B. S.
Sorry Staples, there is no Easy button.
Had another Josh Cantwell email today where he used 907 School St in Cuyahoga Falls as his "Case Study" for his 30k flip program. Said they sold the property, so I checked the mls and still shows active, 183 days after listing. The entire video talks about how much money they ARE going to make on the house, that video was produced over six month ago.
He also has a lot of training videos that teach you how to uses his proprietory marketing program where they teach you how they sell their houses at lightning speed, typically the first day with multiple offers but always within a week according to a recent training video to sell you his mentoring program.
Here is part of the sales pitch for a conference in Texas he is trying to sell.....
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We are currently taking reservations for our Flip and Fund Mastermind Summit in Dallas, TX on August 28-30. Register now to make sure your spot is locked down and use promo code “FFPROMO” to save 75% off the regular cost. Daniel Wiafe will be our special keynote guest speaker on Sunday, August 30. This event is an exclusive opportunity to mastermind with me and the rest of my expert team to leave you armed and dangerous with all the most up-to-date real estate investing education out there.
If you’re still not convinced, let’s take a quick walk through a property we sold, 907 School Drive in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio. I’ll explain the rehab process and talk you through more about our funding program.
###################
Heres the mls information, note the Status at the top, Active, and the DOM, Days on market at the bottom 183 days.
| Residential | MLS: | 3665787Active | List Price: | $129,900 |
| 907 School Ave, Cuyahoga Falls, OH 44221 | Sold Price: | |||
| Area: | SUM04-Cuyahoga Falls(West) | Twp: | List Date: | 11/05/14 |
| Subtype: | Single Family | Subdiv: | List Date Rec: | 11/05/14 |
| Parcel ID: | 02-17318 | County: | Summit | |
| Off Mkt Date: | ||||
| Open House: | Closing Date: | |||
| Supplements: | 2 | |||
| Exp. Date: | ||||
| Directions: | Bailey to School | DOM/CDOM: | 183/183 | |
| $/SqFt: | $77.78 |
My approach with education was a little different. I meet newbies and investors all the time. MOST (but not all) of the newbies that go through various boot camps and seminars don't end up doing anything with their education, they don't put into practice. And it's basically a waste of money (by their own choice).
I've found that successful flippers are people that are DO'ers. They just get out there and learn on the fly.
Education is great, and you should definitely have some before you start, however you choose to get educated.
My personal choice was to just start. I'd rather loose 20k on a flip and get the experience first hand than spend 20k on a seminar/coaching.
Just point of view.
I don't know folks. I'm very skeptical about these gurus. Think about it. If you're making so darn much money flipping, why would you bother spending so much time teaching? I picked up a Ron Le Grand CD off of E bay years ago. I listened to his information closely and yes, it helped give me "the basics". Then I joined a real estate club, asked 4 million questions, studied forums and just went out and did it. This business is NOT rocket science. I'm very successful, but if I had to pick one "thing" that made me successful, there's no doubt in my mind what that one "thing" is. It's time spent doing it. I busted my butt, wouldn't take no for an answer and studied studied studied. I just want people to know that anyone can do this business. However, if you're thinking about doing it full time, you better be prepared to work 60 hour weeks.....minimum! In my opinion, you MUST work long hard hours to become successful. There is no other way around it. If you're not willing to work 7 days a week, work when others are out playing in the sun, forget it. You can make some decent money part time, but to make the big bucks, it's work work work. If I were a guru and had these "meetings" they have all over the country, trying to get people to buy their materials, the first thing I'd say is: "Raise your hand if you're truly willing to work 60 hours a week on real estate, for the next 12 months". Then when 3/4 of the room raises their hand I'm gonna say: "Ok, let's try this again. I want you to think long and hard about what I just asked. I'll give you one minute. Don't lie to yourself or to the rest of us. How many are truly willing to work 60 hour weeks, every week for the next year?" I'd then tell the rest of the people that didn't raise their hand, "Thank you for coming, but it's time for you to leave." Why? Because they don't have the drive it takes to do the business. I believe the ones that are most successful, are the ones that are down and out. The people that barely had enough money to put gas in their car, to get to the seminar. Why? Because they're hungry. They're desperate. They don't have a choice in the matter. THAT'S what counts. People kid themselves. People think they're willing to do the hard work and when it really comes down to it, they won't do it. I don't know, just my opinion. Besides Ron Le Grands CD's, I can't think of one guru that would get my money. Buy a set of used CD's, join a club, read the forums, try to hook up with an experienced person and just DO IT!
I have tried to gain access to the course myself, but have not had success. Nobody got back to me. Their course is nothing but a sham to gather email addresses and other data to sell off to data miners. They don't actually have any training. These so called gurus would not be trying to sell training if they were so successful. The whole reason they're selling training is because they're not actually flipping properties. Your best bet is to network at a local REIA and find a good private lender or other investors who will do a joint venture deal with you.
Can you make 40K flipping a house? Yes you can. Can you have a business where you constantly make 40K flipping houses? No you can not.
I will not go into the mathematics, but anyone that is a MBA graduate should know from his course work that the market place equalizes demand and supply against pricing. If there was a system or method where someone could consistently make $40K on flipping houses, then I would be right in front of him making $30K flipping the same house he would buy by offering $10K less to buy it.
Now that is a different story for California where houses sell for 1/2 million dollars and up.
I have a real estate Brokers license and over the years worked with several flippers that flip 2 to 10 house a month. No way did they average $40K on each project.
We are currently flipping an expensive house in an exclusive Texas subdivision. Using our own cash we bought this at a extremely discounted price. We might make $40K. Another house we are flipping in a average price area, we are target to make $20K using our own cash. This house was bought at an bank action.
You can get good pricing on foreclose houses by buying them from banks in lots of 10 to 20. If you can get them cheap enough (again you are bidding against season flippers) you might come close to $40K in profit.
Which is better; " A Guru or a " DoRu " ?
I am a member of the $40K Flips program. I can say that I was satisfied with the training for the $995 price paid. I joined in October 2014 and still use the training I received. I revisit the classes which are available on the website for replay and post and read posts in the blog forum. I have successfully flipped about 2 dozen properties over the past 7 years so I was in the business before signing up for the $40K Flips program. I found that I did pick up quite a few tips to help me better optimize my processes. His training is thorough and thoughtful. He is well organized and a good presenter. Personally, he is very likable as well. My returns on my flips have been all over the board from as little as $20K to as large as $75K. I have since found that the best long-term return is created through passive income with rental houses. I now have 10 rental houses, am looking to move to small apartment buildings and am a basic member at Lifestyles Unlimited, which I also find to be worth the minimal membership fee. I hope this late post is helpful.
I am a member of the $40K Flips program. I can say that I was satisfied with the training for the $995 price paid. I joined in October 2014 and still use the training I received. I revisit the classes which are available on the website for replay and post and read posts in the blog forum. I have successfully flipped about 2 dozen properties over the past 7 years so I was in the business before signing up for the $40K Flips program. I found that I did pick up quite a few tips to help me better optimize my processes. His training is thorough and thoughtful. He is well organized and a good presenter. Personally, he is very likable as well. My returns on my flips have been all over the board from as little as $20K to as large as $75K. I have since found that the best long-term return is created through passive income with rental houses. I now have 10 rental houses, am looking to move to small apartment buildings and am a basic member at Lifestyles Unlimited, which I also find to be worth the minimal membership fee. I hope this late post is helpful
Did you use his funding?
No I did not use his funding. I have found many different avenues for less expensive funding. I had a previous computer consulting business that I sold so I had some cash in hand to start with. I never needed 100% funding. I have used a combination of private investors, local hard money lenders (at rates more like 2 pts. and 10% with no profit split) and community banks. I do a fair amount of high-end rehab to rent properties so I end up with long-term loans and long-term tenants as the end game. His funding is not outrageous for newbies with no money because they have no other options. As you get rolling in the business you will find many other funding options if start looking around.
No I did not use his funding. I have found many different avenues for less expensive funding. I had a previous computer consulting business that I sold so I had some cash in hand to start with. I never needed 100% funding. I have used a combination of private investors, local hard money lenders (at rates more like 2 pts. and 10% with no profit split) and community banks. I do a fair amount of high-end rehab to rent properties so I end up with long-term loans and long-term tenants as the end game. His funding is not outrageous for newbies with no money because they have no other options. As you get rolling in the business you will find many other funding options if start looking around.
That sounds great if I had money and/or the resources to do what you are doing. Do you know anything about his funding? I have been researching his company for a while and I am getting mixed reviews. I really don't need the coaching but the 100% funding is more idea for me because of the lack of funds and trying to break away from wholesaling.
I only know what I have heard from webinars I have attended through 40kflips or Freeland Funding. I have attended webinars for both investors looking to borrow and investors looking to invest in his funds. Because he needs to pay his investors over 10% to raise the money, he has to charge a minimum of 2pts and 13% to borrow from his fund. His rates are about the same as any other typical hard money lender that will fund 100% of a deal (up to 70% ARV). When the investor has little to no money in the deal, that presents a much higher risk for the lender. This drives the higher rates.
Where I operate it is becoming much harder to find deals with enough meat on the bone to use the 40kflips system and Freeland Funding. If you are hiring a contractor to do all the work and using their funding, between those two costs along with the cost of selling the property (6% realtor, 3% seller paid fees, 1% closing costs = 10% to sell), it gets really tight. What ends up happening most of the time is that your MAO (maximum allowable offer) is too low and someone else outbids you for the deal because their "operating costs" are lower. I am a licensed contractor, have a budget realtor I work with and I get my funding at 1pt and 5% and even with those advantages I am fixing, renting and refinancing because there just isn't enough profit in the fix and flip to make it worthwhile to sell. Rental rates are high now so cash flow on rentals is very good. I fix mine up very nice. Screen my tenants very strictly and rent in premium locations so that works best for me.
@Michael Hamilton, you are unlikely to succeed in cherry-picking funding, but refusing coaching costs. EVERYONE wants to be able to borrow 100% to fund their investments (including closing and rehab costs). No skin in the game.
No personal risk. (Yeah, that's what I want)!
But really, who is going to do that for you? Josh Cantwell? I think not.
Have you retained your wholesaling profits? How can you prove your seriousness? (You must expect any Lender to put you under the spotlight).
Cheers...
My only question is WHY most of these gurus operate in Kentucky, Ohio, and Tennessee. It can't be a coincidence.
My only question is WHY most of these gurus operate in Kentucky, Ohio, and Tennessee. It can't be a coincidence.
They aren't, there a several in Florida, a couple in Texas and quite a few in California.
Hi @Hitlen Brice,
Thanks for the information, it was very helpful.
Are you still following Josh's system since your post? How have things been going?
Hi @Hitlen Brice,
Thanks for the information, it was very helpful.
Are you still following Josh's system since your post? How have things been going?
@phillip lanier curious what information you found helpful.
Couple questions for you that make help you think through the potential truth of any of her statements.
How long does it take to close on a house after you buy it?
How long does it take to rehab a house?
How long does it take to sell a house?
How long does it take to close on a house after you get a contract?
She says she bought a house within 30 days of ending the class, sold it 30 days later and made 40,000 plus.
Notice she has has not answered any questions from anyone asking about her statements. Typically people who really have done something extraordinary will tell people who they did it.
It's not impossible, you could buy and close, do a two week paint and carpet rehab, find a cash buyer right away, close in two weeks, make 40k, not impossible, but highly improbable.
We have done a few hundred rehabs, some very fast but no 30 day ,buy close to sell close yet, except wholesale deals.
Odds are much more likely that she is a fake person created by Team Josh to continue their falsehoods and hyperbole.
Be easy for her to prove me wrong, just provide a link to the house on Zillow, or the MLS, purchase and sale would go a long way to provide a bit of credibility to her hard to believe statements .
Id love to be proven wrong on this, but my observation of crew Josh over the past few years this isn't going to happen.
He constantly uses case studies to show how much money they make on a house, many of them houses that haven't sold.
There is one house 6709 Amsel Ave in Canton , they have had on the market for a year, as of Wed this week, Just expired on the MLS listing. Price drop during that one year period 30,000. You can Google it on Zillow, it shows some of the price drops.
Zillow shows house removed 4/19, bit different from MLS data, zillow not totally reliable.
Not to discourage you, I have spend a lot of money on gurus early on, just be aware when people post glowing testimonials without any details, and don't ànswer any specific questions, very likely it's all made up for or by the gurus as part of their marketing .
There are two sides to every story. I knew nothing about Josh Cantwell and simply was curious to who he was. And now I have an idea; thus, it was helpful. I made a general statement.
And to be even more general, the whole thread is helpful.
Hey guys and gals,
I just read all of this thread and just had to comment on this.
First of all I should give a little back ground. I am a licensed General Contractor here in the SF Bay Area. My wife is a licensed Realtor, and runs my office for our construction company. We've been in business for going on 28 years now and in construction for over 38 years. My wife has been licensed for 18 years. Perfect combination right? Realtor and Contractor in California,......WRONG! Pride goes before a fall!
Our first experience with this end of the business was with good old Robert Kiasaki. We took most of the equity out of our family home ($400K or so) and bought 13 properties in Oregon for rentals mixed between duplexes and singles totaling 21 units in three months in 2005. It was a lot of work, no easy button as they say. We were doing really good clearing $4,500.00 after all expenses each month. Then 2008 happened. Hung on for two years until we had no choice but to go BK on our life. Lost everything including our family home of 21 years. We did keep a condo that our daughter lived in. We still own it, but it was upside down. Ok, enough of the depressing crap.
We always knew real estate was a great business and wanted to get back in the game. We also knew education is priceless. It reduces risk and produces better and longer lasting results. Our first educator was Montelongo, then Fortune Builders with Than Merrill, then Mr. Yancey. Between those three, we spent around $15K on education with them. One thing in common with all these guys, UPSELL! We still get phone calls and emails from all 4 of them for new programs.
Next up is your topic subject, Josh Cantwell. My wife was searching the Internet and ran across his presentation. We of course went to a three day work shop. It was in Vegas, so i figured the worst would be one wasted day in Vegas. The one thing that stood out most for me, Josh was actually there and has been at every event that we have been to.
Let me address the presentation. His presentations are a lot more current information then any other we've been to. The education is focused on flipping mainly. Very little on wholesaling, tax lein sales or any other off shoot of this business. I would say about 60% plus on flips, 30% wholesale, and 10% on the others. Very little time setting you up for any upsale. You do get the sales pitch late in the presentation of course. All of the others started with the hype of how much you can earn and how easy it was to do. Followed up with how much money do you have to work with by making it a show of hands and let us help you access more. This helps them know to what level to attempt to sell you. We did buy a program, but because of our prior experience, we knew what we needed.
Let's talk funding. That was what we were looking for since day one. Having lost everything and a couple years out of BK, that was our number one need. Let's get one thing out of the way, 100% funding. Never, ever happening with OPM! If you don't get that straight right now; take your money to Vegas, you stand a better chance of a quick payday. Quick, that's another wrong assumption. Nothing is quick in real estate except your money leaving the bank. The one difference with Josh in this area is teaching you how to self direct IRA's and what to have in place so you can do it legally. He assists you in setting up your business as part of his program depending on what you level you buy; LLC 's, Fed compliance and others.
I am going to cut myself off here. I get a little long winded. I will give you more information if you want. My point is this, out of all the dealings we have had with all of these "Guru's", Josh Cantwell is the only one that has ever delivered anything of substantial value.
I'm sure everyone has heard of "Buyer Beware". Here is what i recommend.
Take your time and educate yourself. Like I said, "Education is Priceless!"
I will not go into details, but many years ago I was involved in Real Estate Seminars. There is a lot of money to be made; but only a few really make it big and the rest break even or make a little. I would assume Josh Cantwell is doing very well.
Over the many years I have helped other people make a lot of money by seeing a use for a property that was not obvious. In one situation a farm was for sale and no offers were coming in. But when I asked the agent to ride out and check the small farm he noticed Butler (steel buildings) on the land. These buildings were storage rental for businesses and the income was significant. The agent had one of his friends buy the farm which gave off a very decent return.
If you can see a use of a real estate for sale that is not obvious, there is a chance that you can make money by converting it to a higher use. I also find this very rewarded. It is challenging and fun.