Tom Krol as a wholesaling coach
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Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
11yOkay, testimonial by a 20 post member, not doubting a word of it, but guys, really.....
BP is a social networking site, under the radar marketing is caught and most often brought up on the screen. Credibility is earned here by contributions to the forums or blogs giving specific advice or sharing knowledge, that is what will influence others.
We have had tons of gurus, coaches, mentor programs pop up on BP with testimonials from brand new members advancing services offered. I (and we, I'm sure) can be very skeptical of third party influences being used to market someone, it happens a lot. Some of the tactics used on other sites may work there, but not so much here.
To get passed that, demonstrate knowledge through your comments. Posting romantics, fascinating stories, touting success and puffing won't really cut the credibility gap.
I'd encourage you to teach and give solid advice. advocating good real estate practices. Develop your presence here and you can have access to a lot of business after you are established.
Not speaking for others, but you are certainly welcomed to the BP community!
Actually, I'm trying to help you, not being critical. I can tell you too, that "wholesaling" can get kind of touchy here in the compliance areas and marketing, not against wholesaling a deal at all, it can be a tough area to deal in. Good luck! :)
60 Replies
- Investor · Port Saint Lucie, FL · Member since 2012 · 76 posts · 95 votes10y
Originally posted by @Bill Gulley:
Always Bill. They go together like Peanut butter and Jelly:-) Of course I've read your posts Bill. You are a true fountain of RE knowledge and the BP community is lucky to have you here.
- 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Roy K. Bp By and large is anti paid guru for basically anything. the thought process is anything you want to learn you can learn here for free.
This on line learning is new and some will excel at it .. some have no money to pay for education so they don't have any choice and BP is excellent for that others that have money don't need to spend 6 months trying to read and listen they can simply pay for it and do it.
I was recently at a Paid Guru event one of the one's that is despised by 90% of BP posters. And like anything I could tell many would not make it just like the thousands that come on BP and flame out... But many did well. and for me a guy who funds deals this was a very target rich environment for me personally. I got more out of one day interaction with these folks than I have in 2 years of being on BP.. one I could size the folks up in person which is huge.. And two they spent 25k to get there and are super motivated. I have already got 6 deals in the pipeline for those students and have heard of many that are doing well. Just like those that take any mentor's course some will do well some JUST won't no matter what they do or how much they spend. That's reality of the sales business and it is at the end of the day the sales business.
- Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 4 votes10y
Hi BP
Was looking for a thread on @Tom Kroland found this. I'm new to the serious investing world and among one of the strategies I found myself looking into is wholesaling. I heard one of Tom's podcasts and was totally engulfed in his energy and action focus. I went to his website and booked a call. To my total surprise, Tom himself gave me a call! Energy and all! It was a great call and he gave me some insight,a great book referral, and a way to see the light at the end of the tunnel (and all on his birthday!!) He seems like a great down to earth guy with knowledge to share. Thanks Tom.
- Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 1 vote10y
How much does Tom Charge for his mentoring?
- Investor · Green Valley, AZ · Member since 2013 · 27 posts · 3 votes10y
@Bill Gulley
I myself am worried that wholesaling might be illegal or unethical, mostly because people like you say that it is. But here on BiggerPockets and on countless podcasts and YouTube videos there are testimonials and accounts of people who have done it. I really don't think all of them are fake or staged.
Of course the gurus would have nothing to gain by interviewing people who ended up in jail or with a misdemeanor on their record. But that's what BiggerPockets is for.
By all means if you have tried wholesaling and ended up in trouble with the law then you should post your story here so we don't all make them same mistake.
The fact is though that people are not posting those stories. I think once I heard a second-hand story about some guy in Ohio who got in trouble. That's it. Also, if it is unethical to wholesale, then please say why. Also Bill mentioned that there is an ethical way to do it. Could you tell us?
- Investor · Green Valley, AZ · Member since 2013 · 27 posts · 3 votes10y
by the way, I obviously don't know how to @people
- Investor · Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2008 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes10y
There Is someone trying to reach you
If you're trying to wholesale and Arizona and do it lately you should get on title and buy it with transactional funding or Hardmoney or even seller financing but you get on title. The regulators and some states like California, Florida, and Ohio are stepping up their observations on craigslist and so forth. They want you to be on title before you try to sell it to a cash buyer.
Research on BiggerPockets "illegal Wholesaling by Jeff Watson attorney"
Jeff is well respected as far as knowing what the Ohio regulators want to see.
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes10y
We have a poster in the marketplace constantly advertising properties for sale in Florida. A dozen times or more I asked if they have these properties under contract and they don't post an answer. Yesterday, I posted stating that advertising properties not under contract and not being a licensed agent in Florida is a 3rd degree felony. Their response: they have the owners permission to market them. This is another perfect case of someone misinformed and believing that an owner can give permission to violate state laws. I just posted on her thread noting I am contacting DBPR. Their failure to answer the simple question as to whether the properties are under contract with them makes it appear they are well aware they are operating illegally. Anyone wanting guidance should contact DBPR for clarification as to what is legal or not legal. There are people that have been charged and there will be more for brokering without a license in Florida. Those that feel they can do as they please and not get caught MAY end up being a defendant in a criminal court of law.
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes10y
@Ryan DeLange it depends on your state laws. Marketing properties you don't own or have equitable interest in if in Florida is a 3rd degree felony. Read chapter 475 Florida statutes. We recently had a state regulator employee come speak at our local REIA meeting. They cited the case of an ACTIVE prosecution of an individual "wholesaling" illegally. Don't believe everything you see on TV, the news, BP...or even what I post. Read the state laws where YOU want to operate and then make your own decision.
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Okay, this is going to be long, please bear with me and if you really want to understand the points I've made, read it.
Unless state laws are written at a 5th grade level saying "do not do this....." many cannot comprehend the meaning and intent of laws and regulations being opposed to or contrary to, restricting what they are trying to accomplish. When we have preconceived ideas and then read the rules of the game, it's human nature to read between the lines or deny violating the letter of the law. Many will assume they know what words mean, such as "brokering" "broker" "listing" "facilitate" or "contract(ing)" trying to think in terms of real estate; actually these words apply in business law and the Uniform Commercial Code which go much deeper in meaning than what is generally assumed.
Not that an investor needs to be an attorney, but understanding that laws are much like a fishing net, each line being tied to another forms a structure for ones conduct. Reminds me of the old TV show "Dragnet" a few of the squares in that net are real estate laws, but there are many other squares from the UCC, FTC, IRS, laws relating to business, accounting regulations, banking and finance that are the umbrella under which we operate. Advertising a skateboard for sale that you do not own is a violation of law unless you have specific consent of the title holder and you are in compliance with applicable brokering laws.
Gurus and newbies in this business love to base their conduct on the concept of "equitable interest" and most often miss the position they are really in, misinformed or intentionally deceived to form the needed justification for what is to be accomplished. There are different interests held in different types of contracts, limited interests, these interests held may or may not be transferred and with these interests also come obligations. An example; a real estate sale contract conveys a limited equitable interest in the subject property, an option contract does not convey any interest in the property but only in or to the contract.
To gain any equitable interest from a contract the contract must be valid, created in good faith, having a "meeting of the minds" where both parties are reasonably informed of the obligations and duties to perform. Basic business law requires us to have the intent and ability to perform as agreed, in addition the parties take on other obligations that are required to facilitate the intent of the contract as well as customary obligations. Without the intent to perform or the ability to perform as agreed in a contract, the contract is not valid.
Fraud, generally, intentionally misleading another in a matter for financial gain or benefit, there are several types of fraud and some which do not require any gain to be present. The fraud does not have to be successful to commit fraud.
Entering a contract knowing that you do not have the intent or ability to perform is deceiving the other party, a fraudulent act, unless the contract to purchase specifies that the buyer is not required to actually buy, if it does fully inform the seller, then, most likely as a wholesaler, you're in a brokering position.
"Business Ethics", an accepted standard of conduct unique to an industry. What may be accepted practice in one industry may not be acceptable in another industry. Illegal activities are unethical in all industries!
Basic real estate principles, land is unique, it cannot be replaced, because of this it has value and it is unlike personal property which can be replaced. There are economic factors applicable to land that are not applicable to property that may be replaced or personal property. Real property also carries a social requirement, it is necessary for the government and its population and these social implications impute a higher standard of care for society. A home serves as a human need, a car is a luxury. Our laws reflect the difference between real and personal property. Ethical requirements or conduct are (is), in real estate more stringent than the auto industry, or dealing in personal property.
When you attempt to deal in real estate, you're dealing with an asset that countries have had wars over, people have died for the right to own and control land. Ownership rights to land may well be the most valuable citizen rights we have. Land owners (sellers) are protected because they hold certain rights that our society must rely upon to advance socially and economically.
Most on BP approach real estate as if it were personal property, without a clue as to what real estate is, the reason we hold title land differently than we do to a car or some new shoes. Gurus are marketing oriented selling a product about real estate, something they either do not understand or ignore intentionally as it complicates the delivery of their product. IMO, the ethical standards of gurus and coaches is at the same level as Bonnie and Clyde. If they don't understand real estate they should not be teaching aspects of the industry, if they do understand, then they are deceiving the unknowing into acting illegally and or unethically, fraudsters.
Okay, how do you wholesale legally, in all states and conduct yourself in an ethical manner?
Two words......Take Title!
You can partner with a buyer, you can admit the real buyer to an LLC, then you can back out as a member, you can take title in common with a buyer, then sell you interest, you can get 100% seller financing with a balloon note, sell an hour later or a day later and pay off the seller, there are many ways to take title, to have the intent and ability to perform, to actually do what you contracted to do!
There are thousands of posts on BP asking about how to circumvent some rule or regulation, frankly, it's the wrong attitude, the question should be how do I do this legally and ethically, not how do I do this my way and get passed this road block....
Real estate is a science and an art, most want to be artists without understanding the science, all they are or will end up being is a marketing type.
If wholesalers would actually learn real estate, they would know how to take title and profit much more than acting like a strawman, having to deceive sellers with "We Buy Houses" or "We Pay Cash", dancing along legal issues, dealing with invalid contracts and lying about what they are doing........just not smart to screw with a property owner!
Instead of wasting time in wanabe guru podcasts, blogs, forums, youtube con artist junk devised by marketers, learn real estate, I don't care where you learn the industry, just learn it first! You can learn the basics in a few days, if you give the same effort given to all the marketing hype in 3 weeks you'd know more than half the people on BP, that also includes many of your popular posters!
Real estate is not for everyone, many would do much better trying to wholesale cars than houses.
Now, stay tuned, my next rant will be on tort law, how to get jammed big time causing a seller a financial loss while filling them with BS. :)
This rant was brought to you this morning by Alpha Dog Technologies and the Sirus Pro remote training collar, teaching old dogs new trick! :))
- Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes10y
Learn basic real estate principles, take title, be upfront and honest- if you don't buy anything - don't say you do. Classic and informative @Bill Gulley. I read it and don't wholesale much. Problem is, the mentees and coachees want a shortcut and probably won't bother.... but thank you!
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:
Learn basic real estate principles, take title, be upfront and honest- if you don't buy anything - don't say you do. Classic and informative @Bill Gulley. I read it and don't wholesale much. Problem is, the mentees and coachees want a shortcut and probably won't bother.... but thank you!
Yes, I'm aware of that, folks hate to be told what they don't want to hear. When some see the sign that says "Bridge Out Ahead" there's always those that have to continue to find out, might be the hard way.
Thank you Steve. :)
- Des Moines, IA · Member since 2016 · 17 posts · 7 votes10y
okay basically anything other than a double closing is illegal, when It comes to wholesaling a deal. the question that i have is, when marketing the property to buyers, in your opinion do u think it is illegal even when the contract specifically says that, the wholesaler can market the property before the closing date?
"this will not be taken as legal advice"
- Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Dio Donnie:a
okay basically anything other than a double closing is illegal, when It comes to wholesaling a deal. the question that i have is, when marketing the property to buyers, in your opinion do u think it is illegal even when the contract specifically says that, the wholesaler can market the property before the closing date?
"this will not be taken as legal advice"
Hi Dio,
It doesn't matter what your contract says, it's what brokerage laws say.
Advertising property you do not own can only be done by a trustee or broker o in certain circumstances by a power of attorney acting for the owner.
Seems everyone tries to circumvent real estate laws, that those are the only applicable laws in real estate.......absolutely not, you have the uniform commercial code, you have civil law and torts, advertising issues and fair dealing with the federal trade e commission, you have the securities and exchange commission in raising money, we have a string of consumer protection laws and all of this seems to be totally ignored by newbie wholesalers, not really addressing you Dio, but all of them on BP.
A contract that is made to accomplish an illegal act is not a valid contract and that can be conspiracy as in conspiracy to commit fraud or some other criminal act!
You must have the intent and the ability to perform in a valid contract, if you sign as a buyer then you must have the intent and ability to buy! This holds true in all states, it is uniform contract law.
Yes, you can assign some contracts, but not all types of contracts, a valid sale contract can be assigned.
When I have the ability and intent to buy, actually perform as the contract states and then some circumstance changes, I can market my contract but not the property. A sale contract grants an equitable interest in the property but not legal title, under various laws, you cannot advertise property (personal or real) for sale unless you are a broker, trustee or attorney in fact acting as an agent lawfully! You must hold legal title otherwise.
That said, when you claim to be in the business of dealing in real or personal property, then you are exposed to regulatory requirements as a dealer. You can have a garage sale without much issue, but put up signs and hold your sale everyday bring in new junk, you're a dealer! Being in the business of something is determined by the level of activity, time and money earned. Contracting to buy and never buying but selling contracts is facilitating a brokerage arrangement, doesn't matter what your contract says, it's what your activity is and the outcome created by your actions.
How do you get past all this? Learn real estate, then learn how to buy and close a transaction with very little of your money involved. Fully inform a seller of your method and call your transaction funding partner, your buyer partner, close with a seller financed note with a balloon payment that may be "called" by the seller. The seller can show the property, you can market a contract and make an agreement to sell the property contingent on your closing.
Your tactics need to be in working with a seller, not deceiving the owner with BS terms, conditions and lies of having partners, unless you really do have a partner.
Anyone who has legal title to property may sell it without a license requirement, however, when you're in the business of selling something then you will have certain license requirements, that's just general business 101. :) `
- Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes10y
Originally posted by @Theo Davis:
Roy, I would like to second your post. Tom has helped me scale my wholesaling business from a $5K a month business to a $15K a month business. I am still a newbie as well, but he is one of the best, if not the best, coach in 2015 for Wholesaling Real Estate. He literally just help me quit my job. Just put in my 3 weeks notice yesterday. I will report back in a year to let you know my progress. Hopefully I'll be well over 100 posts by then and may have a little more credibility, if not, just know that I am busy taking MASSIVE action to produce Life and Financial Freedom!
Hi Theo; your year is just about up. How goes it? We await your promised update. Cheers...
- Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 4 votes10y
I just ran across this post. I was just looking to see if Tom's methods will work in Denver, but got curious as to how Theo's business has improved. This is from someone (me) who just can't seem to get ahead of the curve on getting started. I've been listening to Tom's podcasts, and I have to say it's some of the best free information I've ever heard, but I keep running into snags with some of the instruction (like title company employees talking about "privacy laws" when I'm looking to simply filter down information that's publicly available anyway. Don't privacy laws only apply to NPI and agent-client relationships?).
- Real Estate Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 62 posts · 13 votes10y
How much of his program was prerecorded video of him vs actually talking and interacting directly with him? I ask because I'm considering his program but it sounds like it's a daily video and then 30 min weekly phone call with him. Which isn't as much 1:1 as I was hoping for. But I get that it's part of having an automated business.
@Ben Mcall, how's the first year since the program been treating you? Are you still wholesaling and what's your profit look like?
thanks for the updates.
- Real Estate Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 619 posts · 75 votes9y
Any followup from anyone on this?
- Investor · Mansfield, TX · Member since 2016 · 62 posts · 6 votes9y
I am just getting started. Super nervous and somewhat skeptical that this thing is real, but so many are saying it is! I plan to focus on wholesaling initially. Working with a guy named Jerry out in Texas,
- Battle Ground, WA · Member since 2017 · 12 posts · 15 votes8y
Any update out there from those that started working with Wholeselling Inc.? The program sounds interesting but I am skeptical. I would love to hear some updates.
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Michael Drinkwater according to one BP poster on the infamous Morris invest threads she said Krol has a class action suit against him.. pretty much all the guys that knock down the big dough teaching this stuff end up there... Trump Rich Dad Montalongo etc etc..
- Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes8yMichael Drinkwater a simple google search for Tom Krol takes me to a website dedicated to a class action law suit. I’d take a look at that if were you
- 8yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Caleb Heimsoth reason is attornies go after guys with deep pockets.. and most of the guru's have some of the deepest pockets in the industry :)
- Battle Ground, WA · Member since 2017 · 12 posts · 15 votes8y
@Jay Hinrichs and @Caleb Heimsoth 10-4. I see. I always wonder why somebody would decide to be a guru (charging huge fees) when they supposedly could attain blissful financial freedom by simply doing what they teach.
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