Help please...Trying to decide to continue working with 'coach'

Help please...Trying to decide to continue working with 'coach'

Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes

Hi everyone. I'm a newbie with a super-newbie situation that I would greatly appreciate any thoughts on from all you incredible BP people. I decided about a year ago to enter the real estate investing arena via wholesaling houses. So far I've fallen under the "analyze=paralyze" category and now feel like I've accumulated enough knowledge to get off my bottom and finally do something. At about this time I signed up for a coaching program run by a somewhat well-know investor (in many investor channels) and his partner. For a number of reasons I joined the program...albeit hastily. The total dollar amount of the program is $6300 of which I paid a requisite $1500 right off the bat...non-refundable. The remainder would be paid monthly and could be cancelled at any time. After 3 weeks in the program, in which time I spent one hour total on the phone with the investor and completed two assignments that he gave me, things on the home front required that I make a choice about if it was appropriate to continue spending money on 'intangibles'. I decided that I could not justify the remaining expense and cancelled the remainder of my contract (which is allowable within the contract I signed). The day following my notice of cancellation, I received a call from the investor I had been working with. He wasn't dainty in his thoughts about 'quitting' (which, admittedly, rubbed me the wrong way). I explained to him that my plan was to close my first deal or two and with that capital, revisit the idea of his coaching/mentoring program. He wasn't buying it. He went on to state that the $6300 fee is MUCH less than the cost of the mistakes I will make going out on my own. He offered to cut the monthly payments in half ($1000/month > $500/month until the remaining $4800 is paid) to help ease any financial burden. He was resolute in his stating that he will take me through the steps necessary to be successful in the REI business.

Having said all that, I'm a bit confused now that I could probably make the new lower monthly payment happen - and this is where I'm hoping to get any and all (very much appreciated) feedback from the BP community.  On one hand, most of my accomplishments have been self-motivated and through "trial-by-fire", and I'm ok with taking my bumps and creating my business as a one man show, for now (although I'm hardly a spring chicken).  On the other hand, I'm not out to re-invent the wheel and I'm wondering if the $6300 is really a financial drop in the bucket compared to all the [potential] benefits that could come from a coaching relationship, not to mention the possible money saved by my not making expensive mistakes.  

So, there it is in all it's festering glory.  I'm really looking forward to hearing any thoughts out there and very much appreciate your time and consideration in the above.  Thank you BP!

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Real Estate Solutions Provider · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 571 posts · 452 votes
10y

@Gregg Pauly Welcome to BP!! Analysis paralysis is real but it can be overcome by taking action. I believe that experience is the best teacher so taking bumps and bruises along the way, including losing money, is well worth the experience that you will receive in return. Furthermore, your success is going to be totally up to you. Not up to any coach. With that being said, the fee for coaching will be a lost of money if YOU do not follow through with his/her advice and recommendations. You mentioned he gave you two assignments. Does that mean you made money on those assignments? At the end of the day, I believe in investing in one's education. But I also believe in jumping out there and getting dirty. You have to decide what you are comfortable with, your risk tolerance, and what will give you the best return on your investment.

I wish you the best!

Sincerely,

Eric H.

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  • Real Estate Solutions Provider · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 571 posts · 452 votes
    10y

    @Gregg Pauly Welcome to BP!! Analysis paralysis is real but it can be overcome by taking action. I believe that experience is the best teacher so taking bumps and bruises along the way, including losing money, is well worth the experience that you will receive in return. Furthermore, your success is going to be totally up to you. Not up to any coach. With that being said, the fee for coaching will be a lost of money if YOU do not follow through with his/her advice and recommendations. You mentioned he gave you two assignments. Does that mean you made money on those assignments? At the end of the day, I believe in investing in one's education. But I also believe in jumping out there and getting dirty. You have to decide what you are comfortable with, your risk tolerance, and what will give you the best return on your investment.

    I wish you the best!

    Sincerely,

    Eric H.

  • Investor · King of Prussia, PA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 339 votes
    10y

    @Gregg Pauly Welcome to BP! The $6300 that you're paying in monthly installments of $1K or $500 could've been invested in your business (educating yourself with books & down-payment for rental). I'm not sure what your plan is in real estate but I suggest you continued educating yourself via BP's podcasts, webinars, and reading books on real estate investing. 

    Do you have a niche? Do you have a specific investing format that interests you (wholesaling, whole-tailing, flipping, buy and hold, notes, etc?) You have to find what you're niche you like and then master it! A niche will make you rich. 

     You can either continue what you started and see it all the way through or stop now and learn what you interest you in real estate and then finding people to align yourself with to assist you along the way. Best of luck!

  • Specialist · Rockland, MA · Member since 2010 · 7k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Gregg Pauly

    Welcome. Go through these first then decide.  Fill in the foundation below.

    Check out the Start Here page http://www.biggerpockets.com/starthere

    Check out BiggerPockets Ultimate Beginner's Guide - A fantastic free book that walks through many of the key topics of real estate investing.

    Check out the free BiggerPockets Podcast - A weekly podcast with interviews and a ton of great advice. And you get the benefit of having over 100 past ones to catch up on.

    Locate and attend 3 different local REIA club meetings great place to meet people gather resources and info. Here you will meet wholesalers who provide deals and rehabbers (cash buyers). Find them through Google and meetup.com

    Two Great reads, I bought both J. Scott The Book on Flipping Houses, The Book on Estimating ReHab Costs http://www.biggerpockets.com/flippingbook

    Couple good reads

    Ultimate Guide to wholesaling

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2015/01/31/ultimate-beginners-guide-real-estate-wholesaling-2/

    Download BP’s newest book here some good due diligence in Chapter 10. Real Estate Rewind Starting over

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/files/user/brandonatbp/file/real-estate-rewind-a-biggerpockets-community-book

    Good Luck

    Paul 

  • Investor · Hyattsville, MD · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 441 votes
    10y

    That's very nice of him to drop the monthly payments by $500, while doubling the number of payments due. He still gets to keep the same amount of money from you at the end of the day. In Sales, they'll use whatever concessions it will take to keep you in the program and fund their income stream, including making you feel bad about "quitting." Education is always an ongoing pursuit and doesn't start or stop with a coaching program. It's what you determine what is useful to you to succeed. Maybe you found his specific niche education is not the path for you and you want to take a new direction based on what he laid out. $6300 seems like an expensive lesson in finding out a investment niche you don't want to ultimately follow.

    Why don't you put a pause on the coaching, check out books from the library that are relevant to your investment interests, then re-consider whether to continue the program after reading these books if you want more help. There are some excellent books below that can provide big ideas and help you avoid making the catastrophic mistakes they claim you will make if you don't finish their program (and their payments).

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2013/04/1...

  • Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    Thank you all for your time and thoughtful consideration.  After reading the replies, I feel more at ease - which probably informs me of what the right answer for me was all along.   Like I've seen for others, the BP community did not let me down.  Many thanks!!!

    @Eric H.   Thank you for the great advice.  Oddly enough, your advice sounds like the advice I'd probably give to someone else.  Being that it was me, I wasn't able to advise myself out of a paper bag.  To answer your question, I did not make money from the two assignments.  They were given to me to begin building my base of knowledge for my market (identifying pocket markets in my area and finding 100 potential investor buyers to contact).  They may have not been worth $1500, but I did find a substantial value in the exercise of researching my market and who the players are.  Everything you said is spot on and taken to heart.  Thank you!

     @Ayodeji Kuponiyi Investing the $6300 directly into my business is a wise choice - as is the constant continuation of my REI education. As for a niche, I've been planning on wholesaling. However, after reading your reply and other posts on the BP site, I think I need to consider other options before going for a particular niche. I've been so focused on one aspect of REI that I might be missing out on something that could work / feel even better. Increased networking is a must too! Thank you for your thoughts Ayodeji!!!

     @Paul Timmins    That's a ton of great information...and much less than $6300:)  The BP podcast is what delivered me to this site and it's been of great benefit ever since.  This post is my first jump into posting on the forums - which is ridiculous of me considering the truckload of questions I have.  The reading list is fantastic and I'll be starting on it immediately - starting with the Ultimate Beginner's Guide.  Thank you for taking your time to help me out!

    @Jeff Bridges The sales aspect you mentioned is something I think part of me wanted to not believe.  There's that part of me that (naively) holds on to the belief in people's altruism....and I don't even like tie dyes:)  Your point on "Maybe you found his specific niche education is not the path for you.." resonated with me.  In other words, just because he's a coach doesn't necessarily mean his direction will work for me too.  Thank you for the link regarding the "catastrophic mistakes".  I'll be diving into that and the other recommended reads immediately.  Thank you so much for your thoughts!!!

    Again, thank you to everyone who took their time to share their ideas and input.  BP is an endless source of information and wonder and I consider myself incredibly fortunate to be part of the community.  As for my decision, I'm good with (and excited about) just getting out there and getting dirty.  It's what's always worked for me and there's no reason to stop now.  There will be coaching in my future...via networking and education.  Take care everyone!!!

  • Washington, DC · Member since 2015 · 139 posts · 102 votes
    10y

    Check out this link regarding guru programs, Gregg.

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2014/05/17/dirty-truth-guru-programs/

    To summarize, all these programs work, but it doesn't mean the one you paid for will work for you. Every real estate business is different and the system you paid to learn may not work for you. That's the risk with these programs. It's not that they don't work, you just don't know that the program you paid for is going to work for YOU. I'm glad you found BP after only going in the hole for $6300. I, and many others on here, paid A LOT more than that before finding BP. 

    To add to what @Ayodeji Kuponiyi said, $6300 is a good size marketing budget for a direct mail campaign. Here's a link on direct mail.

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2014/04/09/direct-mail/

    BP teaches you how to generate the leads as well as how to handle the calls when they come in. All for free. Figure out what investing strategy you want to pursue and then listen to podcasts that focus on that. Good luck, man.

  • Investor · King of Prussia, PA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 339 votes
    10y

    @Gregg Pauly best of luck my friend and don't be a strange in the forums!

  • Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Lenzy Ruffin   Your point about programs not being a one-size-fits all is well taken.  I need to walk before I run.  The links are great too.  I see a need for me to educate myself about what not to do as much as what to do.     Thank you for your expertise and thoughts Lenzy.  They're very much appreciated and taken to heart.

  • Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Ayodeji Kuponiyi  Thank you.  I've been shy about forums before.  I think the cat's out if the bag now, though.

  • Randallstown, MD · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    I recently signed up for a similar program like @Gregg Pauly before finding BP.   The resources, podcasts and community discussions have taught me alot so far. Good luck with your business. 

  • Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Edwin Momanyi   Hey Edwin.  Did the program you signed up for work out for you?  If so, what aspect of it do you find most beneficial?  Thanks and welcome to BP....this site is amazing!

  • Agent/Investor · Suitland, MD · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 14 votes
    10y

    @Gregg Pauly  Hey Greg!  Welcome to BP!  I'm a little late to the discussion, but better late than never right!? :)   I can relate on several levels to your post above.  I am a newbie and have been educating myself since 2008 when flipping was skyrocketing!  I too fall in the analysis paralysis category and will be taking the next step very soon.  With that being said, I got involved in the "Armando Montelogo" educating program.  I saw people pulling from their Retirement plans and 401K's 10-30,000 to get one of his mentors and go on a bus trip to "do a flip".  Now I didn't go as far as the large investment to hire a "phone mentor" or go on a bus trip, but I did spend a couple hundred on his weekend course and CD's and workbooks.  Although a lot of reviews speak negatively of his system, I have learned so much from those CD's and workbooks that I feel it was well worth the 200.00 investment.  He takes you from start to finish on Foundation, Find, Fund, Fix, Flip.  Replaying those CD's (yes CD's..lol) and reading the workbooks were great....but when I discovered BP a couple weeks ago I was just in awe of the amount of information and the networking opportunities you are privy to for FREE!  I felt like I ran into a secret goldmine!  I listened to podcast all day last weekend while doing some house cleaning and I listened to one from 2013 (valuable information is never outdated).  He said find a mentor that you can work with or shadow and learn from and in exchange you need to figure out how you can bring value to them.  So while he spoke of working with a mentor (not a Guru that charges thousands) he was talking about an exchange of services.  So how do you bring value to a mentor you ask?  Great question....bring him Starbucks every morning!!! Just kidding....You either bring money or you bring deals.  As a newbie, Investors want to see that we are eager and invested in learning from them, so we need to take the necessary steps to show we indeed have something to offer!  As I mentioned I've been educating since 2008...since that timeframe I've learned that having a real estate license is imperative to what I am trying to do, so I took the necessary steps to obtain that.  I feel as though I now have something to offer investors, I can find the deals, provide comps, write contracts etc!  I agree with everything suggested above as far as the podcasts, webinars and networking with all the fabulous folks here on BP, but my two cents which has been so helpful to me is...invest in obtaining your license which will help you with your own deals, there are so many benefits to being licensed, you don't have to wait on a realtor to send you properties, gives you a much greater sense of market familiarity, you are privy to speak with all vendors involved in the transaction etc!  The real estate classes, testing and licensure is far less expensive than what that coach was trying to aggressively manipulate you into, and benefits you in so many ways!  Keep educating and gaining knowledge, stay excited about RE and I look forward to seeing your success story in the near future.  Take care and Happy Investing!

  • Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Crystal Smith  Thanks for all the information and kind words, Crystal.  I have learned about and agree with the idea of connecting with a successful investor by providing a value to that person.  I think I might be on track for that and am crossing fingers.  I used to have a RE license and am thinking about getting it again.  Your advice is definitely food for thought.  I'm hoping with the support of all the people on BP, we, and everyone else, are on our way to a brighter future.  Take care and I look forward to hearing more about how things progress for you!

  • Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area · Member since 2015 · 154 posts · 179 votes
    10y

    Your coach sounds like a time-share sales person I almost came to blows with once. I found they too don't take rejection very well...:) Anyway it sounded like you already knew what you *should* do when you made your first post, but sometime you just need to hear someone say it:)...

    Anyway, have you considered that since you are obviously willing to invest in learning about this and also seem to not want to reinvent the wheel on your own, you could choose to "invest" some time instead of money, but finding someone that already do this and offering to help them do whatever they need help with for free? As a kind of internship apprenticeship? 

    You'd get the chance to see first hand how that stuff works in reality instead of just listening to all those cutesy anecdotal evidence "rag-to-riches" / "fool-proof-method" stories. You'd potentially build some contacts. You'd learn how to do some practical leg work and it would not really cost you any out of pocket money and the best thing is that you can get out of it as soon as *you* feel that the "internship" is not offering you enough benefit. As soon as you have build up some trust, most people will love to talk to you about how they do business. I think smart people realize that real estate is not a zero sum game. You could even try to work your way towards a situation where you'd do some deals under their "eaves" and you'd pay them a percentage. That way you never loose any money out of pocket... Anyway, just saying, there are more ways than A: Go it alone or B: shell out lots of money for a guru who has figured out a trick that worked for him (at that time).

    PS Try to listen to all the Bigger Pocket Podcasts in descending order and you'll find that you're putting down a pretty good foundation to build your particular real estate niche on top of, whatever that might be:).

  • Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Chris V.   I have definitely considered and now begun to implement what you mentioned above.  Through BP, I've connected with an established RE investor and am working on providing a value to him to further his goals.  In doing so, I'm learning, getting feedback, creating an accountability of sorts that's pushing me through the discomfort that has, at times, held me back and hopefully, soon, will be making some money.  As for the BP podcasts, they're invaluable.  Can't get enough of them.  

    Thank you for taking your time to reach out.  Great ideas and I really appreciate them!

  • Rental Property Investor · SF Bay Area · Member since 2015 · 154 posts · 179 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Gregg Pauly:

    @Chris V.   I have definitely considered and now begun to implement what you mentioned above.  Through BP, I've connected with an established RE investor and am working on providing a value to him to further his goals.  In doing so, I'm learning, getting feedback, creating an accountability of sorts that's pushing me through the discomfort that has, at times, held me back and hopefully, soon, will be making some money.  As for the BP podcasts, they're invaluable.  Can't get enough of them.  

    Thank you for taking your time to reach out.  Great ideas and I really appreciate them!

     You are very welcome! Glad to hear you are back on track! This seems like a way better approach. Doing in the best way of learning. And surrounding yourself with like minded people never hurts either!  Funny that you used the word "accountability" I was just thinking about that. I find that when I associate with other people in a pursuit (any really) I am much more likely to give it my best because I feel "accountable" towards the other(s). While this is more so for some people than for others, I think that bar a few extreme-self-starters everyone can use a little accountability. 

    What I sometimes do to artificially create accountability is that I go and tell some people around me that I am going to do something before I do it. This can be a friend, partner, college; anyone really. This "forces" my ego to actually do it, because I don't want to see that person the next week and seem like a flake. I personally have little respect for people who talk and talk but never actually do what they said they would...

    And yeah, those podcasts are good for. I particularly like it when there is a guest who questions the standard answers, like for example I really enjoyed the ones with @Ben Leybovich.

    Good luck with your next steps, maybe I'll buy a "deal " from you sometime soon:)!

  • Investor · Foster City, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 26 votes
    10y

    @Chris V.  "maybe I'll buy a "deal " from you sometime soon:)!".....looks like I have a new goal.  Good stuff, Chris!  Thank you.

  • New York, NY · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Sorry to say that either your coach is a very nice person or sounds like he needs the money and is willing to take less per month. For the little that I have been on bigger pockets, I am very impressed with the genuineness of the members and the multitude of information. Once people become successful, there should be a moral percentage that they should give back. I know, without a doubt, that I would and will do so in RE just as I have been doing in my current occupation.
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