Robert Allens Enlightened Wealth Institute
scotchtown, NY · Member since 2009 · 4 posts · 0 votes
does anyone know about this foreclosure bootcamp training. It`s big time money!!! Being tough by Jeff schnitter and his team. Who is suppose to be one of the very best at REO`s.. I looked and I haven`t found/heard anything bad about him only (good). Where are like 5 boot camps that you travel out to a city that they pick. Which is suppose to be one of the top foreclosure markets in the country. I know the hole country is flooded with them right now. But these city`s have already bottomed out or so they say. But they take you by the hand look over your shoulder watch you and teach you how to buy R-S REO`s or make you buy some with out using your own fund or very little down. Or with OPM or hardmoney. And will keep training you for a yr.
Any feed back would be great
Robert Allen isn't scummy BECAUSE he sells information.
In my opinion, he is scummy because he sells BAD information to the ignorant dumbmasses.
Dory,
I agree with you that marketing information is a legitimate business. You also make several other valid points.
I think the consensus here is that R. Allen peddles junk information (outdated, incorrect, etc) to unsuspecting newbies.
I also think it speak more higjly of you that you were able to get something positive out of his teachings, but most people do not have the determination, intelligence, and ability to determine which items of information are valid and correct and which are junk. The fact that he sells bad info is the problem, not that he sells info as Taz stated.
The problem with the vast majority of the "information marketers" is that they claim that they have the "SECRET" to success: a "secret" that they will reveal if the newbie will only spend thousands of dollars on their seminar, bootcamp, or mentoring. Not only don't they have a "SECRET" but the information that they do sell is all one-sided and mostly hype, designed to upsell the ignorant to the next level of training! I have heard most of today's gurus speak and not one of them ever presents the reality of the business (if they even know what the reality is). Furthermore, many of them are FAILURES in the very businesses that they are selling the info about. In other words, they don't know how to do it, but they don't mind spreading their bad info to newbies!
Mike
I agree with Mr. Dorkin. Read, educate and learn. You will learn more from this site than any Guru.
Most of the Guru's are right here anyway...they're called Rossi, and Holdman, among others. I've bombarded (or so it seems) MikeOH with questions (hope he doesn't think I'm stalking him..lol) and he's answered everything. Learn from the people who are out there in the trenches, not behind a podium or on stage. I myself just bought Mike's book.
I went with a friend of mine to a Robert Allen Enlightened Wealth Institute seminar and still have a hardbound copy of Multiple Streams of Income to show for it. As near as I can tell, the man himself just stamps his name on it and has little else to do with what goes on (beyond collecting the money.)
The problem with Robert Allen is that much of his advice is still 20th century advice and doesn't take into account the rather significant changes in the economy and the information age. An LLC is no longer an impenetrable smokescreen to hide your identity behind, for example, now that nearly every state in the union has a website that lists corporate entity information as searchable public record. Tax lien certificates are big business now and not some nifty thing that only a few people know about. Things like that.
My friend was (and probably still is) a fan of Robert Allen and I suppose I have him to indirectly thank for making me aware of the whole real estate game to begin with. But I've also learned much more useful information from people who are actually making money from real estate instead of from selling courses about it.
Training is only as good as what action you take with it. Most spend thousands on boot camps and never make a move. You can get a lot of great info but knowledge is not power. Knowledge put into action is.
Personally I don't like Robert Allen's model of selling you a two day boot camp just to up sell you to the one week boot camp and so on and so forth. You could waste a fortune.
I disagree. The key is to be smart enough to understand the basics of the business so that you don't fail in the first place. Real estate investing has absolutely nothing to do with inventing the light bulb; inventing mass production of cars; or any other type of trail blazing. Millions of people have successfully invested in real estate. All you need to do to be successful is learn the basics of the business from one of them and then work hard.
Mike
There's a guru that doesn't use that model? Really?
My bootcamp only costs $5,000 and there is no upsell to another one.
Here is how it works:
You want to become an investor, I show you how.
You pay $5,000 which is your down payment on one of my several available properties, the money goes directly to escrow, not me, you get a loan for the balance based on your good credit, and in 30 days or less, you are the proud owner of an investment. But wait, that's not all, if at any time, for any reason, you need a question answered relating to that property, you can have it answered by me for FREE.
That simple. Who needs Robert Allen or any other guru!
For those who say stuff like bankruptcies won't matter when it comes to these guru's you are wrong.
It all comes down to integrity and credibility and if you teach real estate but end up bankrupt than you have lost credibility in the eyes of people you are trying to teach.
He filed for bankruptcy because his system failed what does that tell you about the teacher huh it tells you his methods aren't worth learning.
Additionally, I find the reasoning that one won't consume any EWI materials (because its founder filed for bankruptcy)--yet will shop at Macy's (who's founder also filed for bankruptcy)--to be hypocritical. (Mr_Investor, that's not to infer/imply that you shop at Macy's. I don't know--and it's none of my business--where anyone shops.) I also find the reasoning, that embraces the US Constitution (who's writer filed for bankruptcy) for its message and leadership--yet will reject everything that comes out of EWI (without having perused it first--just because the founder filed for bankruptcy)--to be duplicitous. Stated yet another way, I'm simply pointing out the double-standard; I'm not trying to discourage/encourage anyone from checking out the EWI materials.
We all have our imperfections, and we all have taken some advice from someone with past failures. The point is to learn from the failures, and to not repeat them.
Dory,
I think that you missed a very important distinction. If the founder of Macy's filed bankruptcy, the product that you bought from the store is not compromised. The shirt I buy at Macy's is not torn or stained because the owner filed bankruptcy. However, when you receive training from a guru who claims to have made a fortune in real estate and the guru has filed bankruptcy, that tells you with 100% certainty that they do NOT know how to get rich or stay rich with the very business they're teaching you about. In other words - they don't know what they're talking about! In these cases, you're paying to take advice from a FAILURE!
Millions of people have SUCCESSFULLY invested in real estate. All you need to do to be successful is learn the basics of the business from one of them and then work hard. Paying some FAILED guru thousands of dollars to teach you when there are literally millions of SUCCESSFUL real estate investors (several at your local REIA) is CRAZY!
Mike
Mike,
I didn't miss that distinction. That distinction is the lynchpin of my point. Jeff Schnitter (JS) and RA are different persons with differing investing styles. JS happens to work for EWI; he specializes on investing in foreclosures at a distance (sometimes 100s or 1000s of miles from where he is); and he's also into commercial RE and developing. According to RA's books, he only invested (and possibly still invests) in properties within a 30 or 50 mile radius of his home, and I don't recall reading much about RA doing any commercial RE or developing.
I agree with roughly 95% of what you wrote. However, another distinction that I think you missed is that I'm choosing to not judge RA for his bankruptcy, because I don't know all of the underlying facts about his case. I don't know why he filed, and I'm not entirely convinced that the reason for his filing (based upon what I've read) is the direct result of the failure of his business model.
Yet, the initial question was about JS's foreclosure bootcamp. JS is not RA, he hasn't filed for bankruptcy, and I don't think it's fair to judge him harshly simply because RA did. Again, it so happens that JS works for EWI, and he uses bootcamps to teach. I admit I'm not crazy about the bootcamp training model too, but sometimes they can be useful.
I thoroughly enjoyed reading some of Robert Allens books and attending free seminars. I learned so much from some teachers my brain was full halfway through the session. I don't know how long Robert Allen has been writing/teaching/investing/whatever but I'm pretty sure he started a long time ago. I consider him an idea guy, nothing more. the guy has a zillion ways to invest in real estate. certainly the current market hasn't always been this easy, anyone can get started right now. I can get the rest of my info elsewhere, but for pure entertainment value, and ideas, and if you're into what they call infopreneuring which is not too different from the entertainment industry, they have business plans for that too. I took the $5k protege course and though it can get outdated fast (and I'm used to that) it is brilliant for artists and entertainment industry. think the courses cost about $500 now. if you only invest in RE I can't answer that because you can use his ideas but you better balance it with research elsewhere, because I would never depend on one single source for all my information. at least three sources is a good basic start imo. I didn't take any boot camps or whatever. this stuff is not for people who are not used to high powered fast business but I'm used to the international entertainment industry. I learned a lot about money management too. I will mention that I am from Canada and this was my first real exposure to the creative real estate industry. I learned a lot. as mentioned, good ideas. you can change them to work for your situation. I wouldn't depend on them for legal advice but they tell you not to. remember when investing in the stock market was a good idea? it sure isn't now (for most of us at least). you gotta give the guy some credit for what he kickstarted and recognize those kinds of things will go out of date quickly due to technology etc. I always went to fancy glamourous private business schools to kickstart my stuff, you pay a high price to get in the door and you walk away with fast knowledge and loads of contacts. what with the internet though it is way cheaper to get info. courses can tie it all together so a worthwhile one can be the missing piece for some people. it helped me out a lot with my other businesses. basically what I learned from the protege course, changed to fit my situation, is working for me as an artist/business person.
Shana,
When I moved nearly next door to Robert, it was 1984. He had written No Money Down and I told him it was going to hurt a lot of people. We had some good arguments. He was very nice but not completely truthful on at least one thing. In his book, he blabbed about a free and clear house, and foreighn sports car. I checked the county records on the house - not free and clear by a long ways. I lost respect for him.
If you write enuff books and hold enuff seminars, some of the info has to be good... Rich.
I think the bottom line here is that while some of the info may be relevant and beneficial, he has proven to not be a trustworthy person who has integrity or holds a positive reputation..
I would have to agree with you Will, and I liked him as a person. Rich.
Jeff Schnitter is definitely an entertaining speaker.
That being said, Robert Allen is in the education/seminar/publishing business. Granted you can learn information from him. However, I don't believe it's worth the amount of money you pay them. They have a couple of courses that are probably worth going to if you're just getting started out. They don't tell you that, though. They try to sell you on their Gold and Platinum courses, and stuff the Gold and Platinum courses with some bootcamps that are in my mind just stuffing for the turkey; they have no real intrinsic value.
If you are a procrastinator by nature, they do have 'field training' which would be good for the kick in the *** you might need, if it didn't require that you sign up for their gold program first.
Now, don't get me wrong. I fully suggest you go for Jeff Schnitter's free workshop. It's definitely worth going to. Just don't sign up for the paid program.
Indianapolis (one of the cities that Jeff Schnitter's foreclosure bootcamp is taught in) I believe has actually hit the bottom (or close to it). It can't possibly go much lower, unless it reaches Detroit's extremes. Don't get sucked in to the $1 to $20K purchase prices, however. A cheap lemon is still a lemon. The contractors and property managers need to be well researched in Indianapolis. There's a dearth of good ones. If you're looking for a good property manager in Indianapolis, let me know. I'm more than willing to give a referral to ours; they've done a great job for us.
In closing, I would suggest saving your money and just ask some questions on a forum like this. On the other hand, once you get your feet wet a bit in residential real estate and you want to try your hand at commercial real estate, you probably want to take a seminar or two to get over the huge learning curve.
I think what everyone seems to be missing is that if you had a great amazing system why would you teach everyone your secrets? So I seriously have my doubts about ANY of these guru type programs.
its not secrets its just specialized knowledge. the word "secrets" is a sales word to get your curiosity. ever notice on myspace how they reveal "top secret" behind the scenes footage with celebrities to millions of people? nothing secret about that, it's marketing. their goal is to get people to take action, which in REI probably 95% of people never will.