Ideas on being a non-guru guru

Ryan Webber · 2009-04-29T05:15:18-07:00

Ok, so I have a deep interest in helping people understand how to be successful in real estate. I'm an entrepreneur at heart and I would prefer to make money giving the time, knowledge, and experience I have to other people. I've "mentored" many people for FREE and unfortunately 95% of the time its a complete waste of MY time. They give up, fall off, don't follow through, get distracted, etc. within a couple weeks or months and they're done. It can be a little frustrating. I make a respectable income with my real estate, but I've put in years of my life and hundreds of thousands of dollars into figuring out how to do what I do. I still have to work many parts of my business to keep it growing, so when I take time to give to others in business I'm taking away from my own business. I've kicked around the whole guru thing for years and personally I HATE most guru's. I hate their slick sales pitches and empty promises. I hate how most of them are just out there for a dollar. I hate the whole idea of over-promising and under-delivering. I truly want to help people, I want to make money doing it, and I don't want to have to sell my soul or convince someone else to sell me theirs. :D So my issue or question to the group is do you have any suggestions on how to balance the 3 factors here - my desire to truly help people, my desire to not just be another "guru", and my desire to make it profitable for the time I would put into it?

Jon Klaus

Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes

17y

"I just recently attended a Guru event and luckily did not have the $1997 that the guy wanted for his collection of books and tapes, and this is a very well known guru, I won't mention his name, because I don't know if that's kosher, I'm still new here. But I saw lots of other people tripping eachother to get to the table and I personally observed people writing out checks for $1997 to this guy for a bag of tapes and a big book binder."

Richard, I've heard (and knowing a bit about human greed, I believe it) that some of these gurus have decoys rush the table and "buy" the program. It typically doesn't end well for ducks who chase after the decoys.

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Michael Rossi

Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

17y

Wade Cook is serving 88 months is Federal Prison. His wife should be out by now. BTW, I think Wade Cook provided more actual information than all the rest of the "gurus" combined (although it was filled with only positive hyped up info - like all the gurus). At least he didn't only publish commonly known info dressed up as a "SECRET" like many other gurus do.

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Will BarnardPro Member

Moderator

Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

17y

In an attempt to get back on topic for this thread, how does a person (Ryan Webber in particular since he is the thread creator) be an educator, compensate his time with money from his students, and not be the traditional guru who gets ripped here on BP?

Podcast Guest on Show #130

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Michael Rossi

Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes

17y

He doesn't! You're either a "guru" or you're not.

Mike

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Eric NA

Accountant · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 50 posts · 14 votes

17y

I'm obviously stepping into a converstation with well seasoned investors and I'm the 25 year old, straight out of college looking to get into real estate newbie that's being discussed. Maybe I can provide an alternate view. I'm going to work backwards and get on topic at the end of my post.

I am still trying to learn as much as I can and gain information that's going to help me figure out how to get into REI. I have always been interested in REI, but the real spark came about 6 months ago when I read one of Robert Allen's books. Since that time, I found BP, started attending a local REI group that just started and contains many quality people who have been in the game a while and have a lot of knowledge, found a semi-mentor by finding ads on craigslist that appeared to be investors flipping houses and contacting them to see if I could meet them for lunch to pick their brain, and picking up lots of books on Amazon related to real estate, personal finance, and self-improvement. So here are my resources:
-25+ books
-BP (Thanks Josh this is a huge help)
-Semi-mentor
-REI Group
-Dad (In REI)

Mike you mentioned that Donald Trump, Robert Kiyosaki, etc were Guru's. I somewhat agree but I think the main difference with them is that I can pick up their book for $20 and get motivation & insight that is beneficial and my out of pocket cost to listen to someone who's been through the system (silver spoon or not) is very helpful and a good investment of my money/time. I'm sure they have boot camps/classes, etc that are more expensive, but I don't feel those are necessary. Other than that particular point, I 100% agree with Mike on the rest.

If you are trying to set up a "University" "School" or anything like that, and you have "Secrets" to tell me, I'll run just like Mike instructed. I just really started putting my foot on the gas 6 months ago and I've gained a lot of knowledge in 6 months without going to a single boot camp or attending any guru seminars. Why would I? What can a guru teach me that I can't learn by reading books, joining up with local investors, evaluating my local market, and browsing the forums on BP? Absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned.

I also agree with Mike that there are no secrets. Right now, I'm almost completely in the dark and I have a TON to learn. But the information is out there. I just have to put in my time, work hard, and learn as much as possible through experience. No guru can do that process for me and present to me all the EXACT information I need to achieve my personal goals in real estate. That's impossible. To me, that makes a guru course 100% useless.

::Back on topic:: That said, I believe the original poster's intentions are legitimate. So being in the position I am in now, I think the thing that would be most helpful to me is simply a mentor with lots of experience and wisdom that lives near where I am and understands what I am trying to do and how to help me do it. What that person could do for me is help me with my random questions, help me better understand the local market that only someone locally can know, introduce me to his inner circle of contacts (lawyers, contractors, etc) so that I know I'm working with the right people, and help guide me when I go down the wrong path. This person wouldn't be holding my hand the whole way, they would simply be a mentor that could help me out. In return, I think it's 100% fair that they be compensated on the 1st, 2nd and however many deals they do where they had a large hand in making the deal happen.

I think the key is that you don't charge up front. If you truly want to help someone, and you truly know what you are doing, you can help someone make a profit and take some of it in return for your time. That's 100% fair in my book. That said, you must find the right person. Most people won't want to put in the time and want a course of material that will show them the whole way. That won't work. Don't waste your time putting together a bunch of useless info in a binder/book/slideshow. Most stuff can be found right here on the site, reading books, or networking locally.

If I were you, I'd put myself out there as a mentor to someone who really wants to get into the game but they are missing a few of the pieces to get started and just need a little guidence. If I could find someone like that locally, that would be pure gold and I would be MORE than happy to cut them in for a large chunk of any profit because their help would be extremely valuable to me down the road when I'm doing it more on my own. I think you have to be super selective when you pick the person.

Offer to be a mentor for someone and tell them you're available for lunch if they want to bounce ideas off of you. I think you should be able to tell what kind of person you are dealing with after lunch and whether they are looking for a handout program where you do it all for them or if they want to do the work and just need a little guidence.

That's just my two cents.

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Will BarnardPro Member

Moderator

Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes

17y

Eric,

While we all can appreciate your thoughts on the subject, the one aspect you are missing is that in MOST cases, the person giving the advice/guidance/etc. rarely ever receives compensation in the end from the split of profits as they rarely follow through and actually complete a deal that has profits to split.
So if you agree that the "mentor" or advisor, or whatever you choose to call him/her should be compensated, what is the problem with paying them now rather than later so long is the price is fair and not the typical rip off of the cheats on the guru circuit?

The only difference in these two scenarios is that in yours, the educator gives of his time and knowledge and usually receives nothing in return and in the later, the educator does at least receive compensation and the education is the same in both scenarios.

Podcast Guest on Show #130

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Ryan Webber

OP

Wholesaler · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 659 votes

17y

I would have to say that there is absolutely specific information/techniques/strategies that can make or save you tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in real estate investing.

Now whether you call this information "secrets" or not, it doesn't really matter in my book. Obviously guru's term them that for specific marketing purposes. Does their decision to glamorize the information they're sharing make it less valuable? No. Does it necessarily mean that what they are sharing is worth even a $1? No.

I think judging a book by its cover is a bad idea, whether you are doing it in a positive way or a negative way.

Obviously the value of information that one guru shares versus another is going to be completely dependent on that particular guru. I've seen some courses that are absolutely worthless, and I've seen some that if followed you could build a thriving real estate business just from following the course.

Now can that information or most of the information be obtained for free or for minimal costs through this and other forums, books, and charity mentoring? Absolutely.

But does that mean that there doesn't remain a need and a market to offer that information and services for a charge that is proportional and in line with the value of the information that is presented? Absolutely not.

Obviously there still remains a very significant need for information and training for new real estate investors. And starting out if I could have paid even $10,000 to have just the information and knowledge about the business that I have now I would have made my money back 10 fold by now by just utilizing the information that I did not have then.

I'm a business man, and I'm not interested at this point in my life with full time volunteer work. If I would be spending my days teaching others and giving information and training to other people, I would expect to make AT LEAST what I make doing what I'm training others to do. And really I would expect to make more. If I have the skills to do it and the ability to train others to do it, why shouldn't I make more training others in those skills than what I would just applying the skills myself?

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Eric NA

Accountant · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 50 posts · 14 votes

17y

And starting out if I could have paid even $10,000 to have just the information and knowledge about the business that I have now I would have made my money back 10 fold by now by just utilizing the information that I did not have then.

I'm a business man, and I'm not interested at this point in my life with full time volunteer work. If I would be spending my days teaching others and giving information and training to other people, I would expect to make AT LEAST what I make doing what I'm training others to do. And really I would expect to make more. If I have the skills to do it and the ability to train others to do it, why shouldn't I make more training others in those skills than what I would just applying the skills myself?

I'm sure paying 10K to have the information you have now know would be worth it, but how did you get that information? Through experience? I personally just don't think it's as easy as picking up a book or going to a few classes to become a successful investor, I think you do your homework and then you go out and actually start investing and learn along the way. I'm sure I will make mistakes along the way, one's that could have been avoided, but if I waited unitl I knew it all, I'd never invest. I am going to do my very best to learn how to avoid the big mistakes when I start, and correct the little ones as I go.

Will,

I think you're right. I don't have a problem with paying in advance if it's a fair price. I think I was more moving towards the fact that a starting out investor will have very little cash so they will need to use that to go into their first deal. But you're right, I think compensating the individual who's helping you out before you do your first deal would be fair because I'm sure the odds are against someone actually going through with a successful investment and the mentor receiving any kind of return for their investment of time/resources. Maybe agree on a set dollar value for a 6 month period of being able to utilize your mentor to help you evaluate deals, the market etc, and then they also get a cut if/when you do your first deal. That would be reasonable to me.

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Joseph Ziolkowski

Inspector · Alsip, IL · Member since 2008 · 361 posts · 75 votes

17y

Ryan, I see where a lot of these folks are coming from, but at the same time, I have found your posts (all free) to be extraordinarily helpful to me, and I would certainly be willing to pay you to share your whole system, or to take a personal interest in my success beyond all that you've already shared on this site. You seem to have a genuine desire to help, which is both refreshing and rare. I would definitely take into account the stereotypical newbies' lack of initial cash. To promise someone mentoring and get them all excited, only to tell them that you want ten or fifteen thousand dollars upfront is almost cruel. For most people in that position, it is an almost impossible amount to come up with, or part with. Sure the service would be well worth it, but you get the drift. I like the deal split idea, or else have a contract signed that after they do x number of deals under your tutelage, that maybe then they could pay you that 5 figure number to conutinue while you help them make 6 figures. Let what they put into you, and what you put into them based strictly on their success. And whatever more affordable number that you decide to charge in the beginning will compensate you even for the tire kickers. Sounds fair to me. Thanks for everything you've done so far!

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