Ideas on being a non-guru guru

Ideas on being a non-guru guru

Wholesaler · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 659 votes

Ok, so I have a deep interest in helping people understand how to be successful in real estate. I'm an entrepreneur at heart and I would prefer to make money giving the time, knowledge, and experience I have to other people.

I've "mentored" many people for FREE and unfortunately 95% of the time its a complete waste of MY time. They give up, fall off, don't follow through, get distracted, etc. within a couple weeks or months and they're done. It can be a little frustrating. I make a respectable income with my real estate, but I've put in years of my life and hundreds of thousands of dollars into figuring out how to do what I do. I still have to work many parts of my business to keep it growing, so when I take time to give to others in business I'm taking away from my own business.

I've kicked around the whole guru thing for years and personally I HATE most guru's. I hate their slick sales pitches and empty promises. I hate how most of them are just out there for a dollar. I hate the whole idea of over-promising and under-delivering.

I truly want to help people, I want to make money doing it, and I don't want to have to sell my soul or convince someone else to sell me theirs. :D

So my issue or question to the group is do you have any suggestions on how to balance the 3 factors here - my desire to truly help people, my desire to not just be another "guru", and my desire to make it profitable for the time I would put into it?

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Real Estate Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2009 · 73 posts · 18 votes
17y

Ryan,
I'm not sure if someone mentioned this idea...
Have you thought about partnering with or becoming an instructor at a local college? So many more colleges and universities have entrepreneurship departments/degrees. You could not only have curricula focused on REI, but how to run and manage a business, etc.
There are a lot of adjunct opportunities all over the country and online. You may not get a percentage of your students' deals, but you would get to help others, make a little money, and show your expertise. Good luck with whatever you decide!
-Valerie

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  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Josh:
    The stigma comes from being a "guru," not from charging fees.
    Bingo! That says it all.
  • Virtual Real Estate Investor · Santa Rosa Beach , FL · Member since 2008 · 76 posts · 77 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by nationwidepi:
    There is another thread about guru or expert. The word guru is no synonomous with a lier/cheat/fraud/etc. in the RE investing world beacause there are so many out there who promise the dream and deliver the nightmare, the nightmare being the realization that money does not magically fall in your lap from the "secrets" disclosed, but quite the opposite, money has left their pockets and arrived in the guru's.

    Hope I didn't get too far off track from the topic (it's late) but I will say to Ryan that sinc eyou are a successful wholesaler and want to monetize some of your time teaching, do it, just do it honestly and give a real value for the charge.


    Will I am going to agree and disagree with you here about "gurus" delivering the nightmare that money doesn't magically fall in your lap from the "secrets" disclosed.

    Seriously, we are talking about adults purchasing a book, training or system to accomplish a desired objective. Regardless of the road and methodology by which they attempt to get there, the ONLY purpose people are seeking with such products is an education by which to make money.

    Obviously, adults know that there is no magic bullet for making money and most certainly, anyone on Bigger Pockets who makes their living from whatever variant of real estate investing they do certainly knows that.

    Frank Lloyd Wright said it best when he said, "I know the price of success: dedication, hard work , and an unremitting devotion to the things you want to see happen."

    At the end of the day, irrespective of any training, the only person responsible for your success or failure is you.

    To say that gurus deliver the nightmare that people using their systems must actually work them to make money is like that scene in, "The Matrix". Was Morpheus delivering a nightmare with the blue pill or exposing Neo to the sometimes harsh realities of the world that existed whether he wanted to believe them or not?

    It is a vicious cycle. In this world, people don't respect you or want to hear what you have to say unless you are making money.

    So, understanding this, you develop an ability to get what you have to offer to the largest possible base of people. This costs money. In order to pay for it and grow it, you monetize it. This is entrepreneurialism and capitalism 101. Then, because you monetized it and make money at it, you get the label of guru, snake oil salesman, etc.

    Yes, it is true and well documented that Carleton Sheets makes more than $60 million dollars per year from his No Money Down courses. And yes, it is true and well documented that he does not make that much from his active real estate deals annually. In what way does that make him a fraud or lessen the value of the material contained in his course? It is the definition of stigma.

    The sad reality is that 97% of the population does not want to work. They want a handout. Untrue? It is a documented fact that 97% of the earth's wealth is held by 3% of the earth's population.

    Take a look at the current elected administration and their platform of taking from the evil rich (who work, have liability and inherent risk) and giving to the deserving poor (who complain about that their 40 hour work week is too long because it interferes with their TV watching time).

    So, the gurus do not deliver the nightmare, they merely reveal the inner man or woman's work ethic unto themselves. The naked truth can be a harsh reality to swallow. It is easier to point fingers at the evil guru who made money and say that he is a fraud than look in the mirror and admit one's lack of desire to do what it takes to be successful. Much easier to watch another episode of CSI and crack a beer.

    I buy books and systems from "gurus" all the time. In fact, this week alone we have purchased training or systems from CopyBlogger (copywriting and SEO) and Russell Brunson (Micro-Continuity so we can deliver and monetize our methodology of making money). Brian Clark (CopyBlogger) reportedly makes $100k per month from his website which is ranked in the top 100 by Technorati and Russell Brunson reportedly makes $800k per month from his Internet marketing machine.

    Have we gotten any value from their systems? You better believe it.

    Did money magically appear?

    Of course, not.

    As with any course from any guru, we have to put in the blood, sweat and tears to reap the rewards.

    One of my Investor mentors told me about 15 years ago, "Everything worthwhile in life is hard. If it was easy, everybody would be doing it."

    Now having said that, I applaud you for developing a system and you absolutely should monetize it to the nth degree. Your time and experience have value and presented in the proper medium deserve financial success.

    On the journey to success, there will be many naysayers and detractors who attempt to dissuade you from your chosen path.

    The sad reality is that most people do not want to see other people succeed.

    These same people become your devoted fans once you have battled the demons and won and are a huge monetary success.

    Go Man Go!

  • Real Estate Investor · ten mile, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes
    17y

    That was not the idea at all for this thread. It was how to be a "mentor" or "teacher" without the connatations of being labeled a "guru".

    What you have suggested is really a true guru in that you self-promote yourself, tell others how to do, then leave it up to them to do.

    Will wants to truely help his students.

    It is about being an NON-GURU GURU

  • Virtual Real Estate Investor · Santa Rosa Beach , FL · Member since 2008 · 76 posts · 77 votes
    17y

    I don't believe I said anything about leaving it "up to them to do it" but at the end of the day, no one else can do it for them. Will would be doing his students a disservice if he trained them how to do it and then he did it for them.

    It is the old adage, "Give a man a fish, feed him for a day, teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime". At the end of the day, someone has to bait the hook and throw the pole in the water and Will will not always be there to do it.

    And incidentally, what you are referring to is philanthropy. The world's greatest philanthropists had to first MAKE MONEY so they then had experience and money to give away. You have never heard of the pauper philanthropist. It is an oxymoron.

    If you read one of my prior posts, I explained my personal experience trying to help the hundreds of people approaching me asking for help. I spent tens of thousands of dollars and thousands of man hours "helping" them for FREE.
    I was happy to give of my time and resources to help people thrive in an imploded market so they didn't face car repossessions, foreclosures, bankruptcies and getting a day job.

    The end result is that people do not respect or appreciate anything that is free. It is a wierd fiber of human nature.

    When you charge for something, there is the connotation that you get what you pay for.

    Isn't that true?

    Using that analogy, something given away for free has to be worthless, and that is exactly how people treat it.

    So, despite any suggestion to the opposite, I truly want to help people (but not at the detriment of my family) and we are creating a system where they can receive all of the training they need AND then have an ability to plug into a working platform so they aren't cast aside. I am unaware of any "guru" who sells any system of any kind that will allow you to plug into their existing business and make money once you are up to speed.

    If it exists, let me know who it is.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    There is so much B.S. in this thread that I'm not sure even my tallest concrete boots would be enough to wade through it!!!

    First of all, when ANYONE says that they just want to give back - RUN!!! That's a bunch of crap. If they wanted to "give back", they wouldn't be fleecing newbies with a big fee for their service and they certainly wouldn't have multiple levels of increasingly expensive membership where they continutally promise to reveal the secret to success. There are many people on this forum and at your local REIA who are happy to help you for FREE. They aren't doing it to "give back", they're just happy to help a fellow investor who is trying to get started (assuming that the newbie is doing their part).



    Absolute nonsense! When I was relatively new to real estate, a successful landlord at my local REIA took me under her wing and taught me the finer points of the business. She didn't charge me a dime and I GREATLY APPRECIATE IT! I appreciated it then and I still appreciate it today!

    I have done the same thing with many other people, including many people on BiggerPockets and I know for a fact that they appreciate it, because they've told me so on many occassions.

    Here's how you can spot a "guru" that is going to fleece you:

    1. They claim to know or have a "SECRET" - if you see that word - RUN!

    2. They tell you how easy it is to make money with real estate and use words like "autopilot", "turnkey", or other words to indicate that you it won't require much work.

    3. They have multiple levels of training. Real estate is a simple business and it doesn't require a platinum "inner circle" to understand the business.

    4. They don't talk about the negative aspects of the business.

    5. You can think of ANY potential expenses they don't talk about. The "gurus" like to talk about income - not expenses; and failing to understand this issue is the NUMBER ONE REASON NEWBIES FAIL!

    6. ANYTHING the guru tells you isn't true. If they're lying about one thing, they're probably lying about a lot of things.

    7. The word "UNIVERSITY" is anywhere in their literature. Ohio State is a UNIVERSITY, Billy Bob's Investing "University" is a SCAM!

    I could go on and on, but you get the idea.

    You can't be a non-guru guru. Either you're a real investor, or you're a guru. You're not both.

    Those that can - DO! Those that can't - GURU! Those are the most intelligent words I've ever heard!

    Mike
  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y
    I would disagree with you on this and I think I can prove it. How else can you explain why thousands of wannabie investors pay 10's of thousands of dollars for bottcamps and educational programs in which the "guru" uses the underhanded marketing techniques to get them there and bring their wallets if they are "all adults seeking education by which to make money". I think the fundamental difference you are missing here is that "gurus" know that people wnt the easy road to easy money so they develop their marketing and their BS programs arojund that basis and not around a true and viable edcuational resource. They use artificial motivation and tease the newbie into thinking that they need to pay for their next bootcamp in order to get the rest of the "secrets".
    On the other hand, an "expert" who actually does produce a viable and real educational program and experience without all the hype (and charges for it of course, as you stated and I agree, there is nothing wroing wioth monetizing your time and efforts) is a completely different story. Again, let me clarify. I agree 100% that there is nothing wrong with monetizing your efforts and practicing capitalism and entrepreneurialism. Furthermore, you do NOT get labeled as a guru for charging for services or educational products. You do so by utilizing the practices that MikeOH laid out about gurus!
  • Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    17y

    Hey Joshua - I get it.

    Personally I believe there is a place for all of the above.

    I think there are real estate investors who have no desire to help or teach others.

    i think there are real estate investors who have a desire to help and teach others and some charge - some do not. Some do both and some just teach.

    I also think there are people who just run a seminar company and rip people off.

    I am fine with the first two but not the last.

    My point to Ryan was (to get back on topic) that no matter what he decides to do there will be those who whisper "guru" / "rip off" behind his back.

    You may not like this comment Joshua but having read through the many threads here on BP on "guru's" and "teachers" my observation is there is a lot more "hatred" (maybe a strong word but can't think of another right now) here on BP then I have found in the outside world. Does that meant that is a fact - no - just my observation.

    As Ryan starts to teach a very small %age of his students will actually do anything with the materials - that is just life. At lest 80% of the people he teaches no matter if it is 10 or 1,000,000 will do nothing and a good majority of that %age will say Ryan's program sucks.

    Will it? I will never know - but I know a lot of people will blame the materials Ryan makes or the seminars he gives long before they take personal responsibility and blame themselves for not getting off their A$$ and taking their own action.

    If Ryan is okay with that - then teach away.

  • Real Estate Broker · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    17y

    On your other point Joshua about people asking simple questions of those who have attended seminar A or B - I have read those threads as well.

    My comment on those is - is it fair to judge a whole program based on 1 or 2 peoples ability to stand up to or answer the questions of BP members?

    Just because someone can't analyze a deal or they don't know what all the expenses are on a deal or even simpler questions - does that mean the program was/is a waste of time / energy? Is that the only possible explanation?

    Is it a possibility - sure - but is it the only possible reason? Of course not - however a lot of people here on BP seem to jump to that conclusion (that is my opinion based on the threads I have read - not a fact).

    As I said above there is also personal responsibility and those who got something out of it but they can't answer simple questions doesn't HAVE to mean it the program is worthless.

    There are a lot of reasons why someone can't answer a simple question and yet still have benefited from the program.

    Having said all of that - yes - of course I agree there are programs that are rip-off's - like in any other trade.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    {quote]As I said above there is also personal responsibility and those who got something out of it but they can't answer simple questions doesn't HAVE to mean it the program is worthless.

    If they spent a bunch of money on a seminar, bootcamp, coaching, mentoring or any other of that guru nonsense and don't understand the basics of the business, then the program was worthless to them! I agree that some people are just ignorant and it may or may not be the guru's fault, but it was still worthless to the student who didn't get it.

    Unfortunately, most of the time, they couldn't have gotten it from the gurus even if they were a PhD! The reason is that the gurus don't have it themselves, making it impossible for the gurus to teach it to the students. If the gurus had the "secret" to great wealth and riches, they would be doing that! In reality, they are doing what they consider to be the path to great wealth and riches - FLEECING IGNORANT NEWBIES!

    Those that can - DO! Those that can't - GURU! (my apologies to Jeff for stealing his saying and repeating it over and over). However, I think that's the most profound thing I've ever heard and certainly the most true!

    Mike

  • Virtual Real Estate Investor · Santa Rosa Beach , FL · Member since 2008 · 76 posts · 77 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by Scott M.:

    As Ryan starts to teach a very small %age of his students will actually do anything with the materials - that is just life. At lest 80% of the people he teaches no matter if it is 10 or 1,000,000 will do nothing and a good majority of that %age will say Ryan's program sucks.

    Will it? I will never know - but I know a lot of people will blame the materials Ryan makes or the seminars he gives long before they take personal responsibility and blame themselves for not getting off their A$$ and taking their own action.


    Amen, Brother.

    This entire thread has been somewhat cathartic. I would like to remind everyone that the purpose of EVERY business is to develop a legal and ethical product with perceived or inherent value and then market it and sell it to the broadest base possible to yield the highest possible profit utilizing every legal and ethical marketing means available.

    This is Business 101.

    That being said, multi-billion dollar corporations spend billions of dollars on Madison Avenue marketing to convince us that product A is better than product B because of X, Y and Z.

    So, given that an investor is going to bottle his knowledge and sell it, the investor has a professional obligation to his business and a personal obligation to himself to present his product in the most marketable light to attract the largest number of paying customers.

    If the purpose is to educate people on methods to attain financial success and independence, shouldn't they be applauded for getting the information out to as many people as possible?

    If that means that he or she is selling a "secret" that he wants you to pay for, is that great marketing or does that make him the rip off guru?

    Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the jist from this entire thread is that the answer to this question is, "It depends".

    It depends on the quality of the information he or she is selling and whether or not it has quantifiable monetary value using normal metrics that a layman can translate into profits, not whether or not they are utilizing proven marketing techniques to sell a product.

    Any business or product that isn't focused on effective marketing to attract paying customers and repeat customers is headed for bankruptcy. Likewise, in the digital age of social media, any product without value is destined to be shelved as word spreads and people vote with their dollars.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    It makes him a low-life rip-off GURU!!!

    ...and that's the conflict for the gurus. If they want to make money as a guru, they need to make ridiculous claims and sell a "secret" that doesn't exist. No "guru" is going to get rich telling the truth - that real estate is a simple business that requires a LOT OF HARD WORK and persistence and that THERE IS NO SECRET!

    Mike

  • Virtual Real Estate Investor · Santa Rosa Beach , FL · Member since 2008 · 76 posts · 77 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    {quote]

    If the gurus had the "secret" to great wealth and riches, they would be doing that! In reality, they are doing what they consider to be the path to great wealth and riches - FLEECING IGNORANT NEWBIES!

    Those that can - DO! Those that can't - GURU! (my apologies to Jeff for stealing his saying and repeating it over and over). However, I think that's the most profound thing I've ever heard and certainly the most true!

    Mike

    Mike, with all due respect, this definition suggests that Donald Trump, Robert Allen, Robert Kyosaki, Carleton Sheets (I could go on) are all gurus who cannot do it so they fraudulently rip off other people in a get rich quick scheme. This simply isn't substantiated. Every one of them are self made millionaires (or billionaires) from doing real estate deals PRIOR to ever becoming a guru.

    And if I am not mistaken, every one of them are still actively doing real estate deals.

  • Virtual Real Estate Investor · Santa Rosa Beach , FL · Member since 2008 · 76 posts · 77 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:


    It makes him a low-life rip-off GURU!!!



    ...and that's the conflict for the gurus. If they want to make money as a guru, they need to make ridiculous claims and sell a "secret" that doesn't exist. No "guru" is going to get rich telling the truth - that real estate is a simple business that requires a LOT OF HARD WORK and persistence and that THERE IS NO SECRET!

    Mike



    Mike, I agree with you that real estate is a simple business that requires a LOT OF HARD WORK and persistence and that THERE IS NO SECRET (sort of)!

    One definition of the word secret is, "marked by the habit of discretion."

    Using this definition, there are many real estate "secrets."

    Most successful people are very tight lipped about how they make money for fear of competition and losing a competitive edge.

    Not sure what your area of expertise is, but I assure you if you are doing it and making six figures or more, there are a myriad of "secrets" you could teach someone who doesn't do what you do or know what you know

    AND that aren't readily available in the public domain.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    You might want to check your facts. Donald Trump was born in a super-rich family with a silver spoon in his mouth. Robert Allen was so successful that he went bankrupt. I'm not sure that Kyosaki even pretends to have made his fortune in real estate.

    RIDICULOUS! I certainly do it and certainly make in the six figures FROM REAL ESTATE and I can tell you with absolute certainty that there are NO SECRETS. EVERYTHING to be known about real estate investing is available for free right here on BiggerPockets!

    Why not prove your point and tell us just one of the "SECRETS" that you think you know! Good luck trying to think of anything that isn't already here on BiggerPockets for free. We're all holding our breath and waiting for your answer.

    Mike

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y
    I have had the same observations and agree.
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    RIDICULOUS! I certainly do it and certainly make in the six figures FROM REAL ESTATE and I can tell you with absolute certainty that there are NO SECRETS. EVERYTHING to be known about real estate investing is available for free right here on BiggerPockets!
    You tend to say this same thing over and over about the word "secrets". While I agree that the guru tactics use this word in conjunction with ripping people off, there are "secrets" to the business. It is not secret to all us seasoned investors, but anything that we know, that newbies do not is certainly a "secret" to them until we tell them! Bottom line is while we can answer question after question here on BP and give some great insight for newbies and other expereinced investors alike, it is often not enough to make someone successful. They just need more. Not because they are ignorant, and not for the purpose of pitching some "secret to riches" but simply to have some more details and actual connections in the businesses we operate. I know for a fact that you don't provide this information in your answers to others here on BP Mike. I think that there is much more to learning specific strategies in RE investing (there are much more than just landlording!) than just asking questions and getting answers on a forum (be it the very best forum in the industry!) Just my opinion.
  • Real Estate Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2009 · 73 posts · 18 votes
    17y

    Ryan,
    I'm not sure if someone mentioned this idea...
    Have you thought about partnering with or becoming an instructor at a local college? So many more colleges and universities have entrepreneurship departments/degrees. You could not only have curricula focused on REI, but how to run and manage a business, etc.
    There are a lot of adjunct opportunities all over the country and online. You may not get a percentage of your students' deals, but you would get to help others, make a little money, and show your expertise. Good luck with whatever you decide!
    -Valerie

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I agree with you there Will. It would be absolutely pointless for me to give my local Bank President's name and phone numberr to people here on BP. First of all, the bank wouldn't loan money to some wide-eyed newbie in some other part of the country who has no experience, no money, and bad credit. Secondly, if I did that, the bank President probably would never speak to me again. What I would do (and have done) is give the Bank President's name and number to a relatively new member of my local REIA if I thought they were a good risk. In fact, if I really believed in them, I would even introduce them in person to the bank president.

    Once again, that's why I recommend finding a successful investor at your local REIA to be your mentor (for free). They know the local contacts; local laws; local property values, and other things that a national "guru" couldn't possibly know.

    GREAT IDEA!

    Mike

  • Will BarnardPro Member
    Moderator
    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    It would be absolutely pointless for me to give my local Bank President's name and phone numberr to people here on BP. First of all, the bank wouldn't loan money to some wide-eyed newbie in some other part of the country who has no experience, no money, and bad credit.
    A poor example for what I was talking about but I agree with you there that I would not give out that info either as it would hurt your relationship with that bank Pres. What I was suggesting is that in addition to the generalize answers to all the newbie questions, they need more fine line details and actual experiences that can only be received through an experts help and time.
    Originally posted by Valerie:
    I'm not sure if someone mentioned this idea...
    Have you thought about partnering with or becoming an instructor at a local college? So many more colleges and universities have entrepreneurship departments/degrees. You could not only have curricula focused on REI, but how to run and manage a business, etc.
    A most EXCELLENT idea! I should look into that myself. It sounds like fun.
  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    I thought people here on BiggerPockets were getting SPECIFIC answers to SPECIFIC questions, including the 'fine line details'. In addition, they also get actual experiences on BP everyday. How is that different than getting the information from a "guru" or "mentor" that charges them a bunch of money for the same info?

    Mike

  • Real Estate Investor · Gastonia, NC · Member since 2009 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    17y

    I really enjoyed reading this thread. I just recently attended a Guru event and luckily did not have the $1997 that the guy wanted for his collection of books and tapes, and this is a very well known guru, I won't mention his name, because I don't know if that's kosher, I'm still new here. But I saw lots of other people tripping eachother to get to the table and I personally observed people writing out checks for $1997 to this guy for a bag of tapes and a big book binder.

    I too would like information from an honest person who is just willing to help without ripping off newbies in this fashion. So if you don't mind, Ryan, please share with us new folks what your information is....i.e. your web site, subscription newsletters, or anything else you have..... I know if I am looking for someone like you, then many other people are as well. Please share more of your access info.

  • Attorney · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:
    How is that different than getting the information from a "guru" or "mentor" that charges them a bunch of money for the same info?


    One difference is that there is no one guru who can hope to come close to the collective knowledge of the 30,000 members here. People underestimate that advantage.
  • Virtual Real Estate Investor · Santa Rosa Beach , FL · Member since 2008 · 76 posts · 77 votes
    17y
    Originally posted by MikeOH:


    You might want to check your facts. Donald Trump was born in a super-rich family with a silver spoon in his mouth. Robert Allen was so successful that he went bankrupt. I'm not sure that Kyosaki even pretends to have made his fortune in real estate.

    Mike:

    With all due respect, it is apparent that you haven't read any of their books and yet are still making defamtory comments.

    Donald Trump started with $200,000 and his first purchase was an apartment building which he then parlayed into a multi-billion dollar empire. How he grew up and how much he started with is inconsequential. He was brought to his knees in the '90s and had one of the most amazing financial and professional comebacks in history which had nothing to do with his "silver spoon". Anyone that can tell you how to structure a billion dollar transaction, secure the financing, lose it all and recover certainly has secrets that are not readily available as it is a very select few that have ever done it.

    Robert Allen built an empire from nothing and yes, went bankrupt and lost it all. He then proceeded to rebuild his real estate and business empires. He was put to the test in a public display in reference to his claim that he could purchase properties with no money down and proceeded to prove that he could do it. HIs book, to this day, still remains the best selling real estate business book in history.

    Likewise, Robert Kiyosaki also attained great success, then lost it all, then rebuilt it. If you read "Rich Dad, Poor Dad", he explains how he purchased his Porsche the smart way by locating and buying an investment property that would throw off enough cash to make the Porsche payment.He and his wife are highly active real estate investors with tremendous holdings and cash flow. His book is the best selling financial planning book in history.

    It isn't the how we monetarily begin or how bad we fail that matters, it only matters what we do with the blessings and curveballs life throws at us. We learn more from failure than we do from success. This is never more true than when investing in real estate.

    You may have not yet learned this yet, but I can tell you from personal experience that the people who respect you when you are making big money are usually those who never have and who want what you have without working for it and the people who respect you the most when get your donkey handed to you are those that make big money because they understand how the game is really played and have been there too.

    Anyway, all three of these guys walk the walk and actively invest yet you have still somehow managed to engineer them into being low life rip off artists.

  • Real Estate Investor · ten mile, TN · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes
    17y

    While it is true that all three of these have made and lost a lot, there is absoulutely no doubt that because of their beginnings they had CLOUT that we small investors did not have. And it is because of their names that they got their opportunities that they originally got.

    Will we be given the same opportunities without any clout in today's economic society. Without any clout to our names I for one certainly doubt it.

    Once you do several deals you begin to recieve some recognition and more as you do more deals. There are no secrets and even they will tell you this. And Trump for one said this exact thing on a show about him when he was spiriling downward and had to sell off some of his holdings. He said there are not secrects just persistance in doing what works for you. I have taken some chances that I should not have which has caused this liquidity problem of the current time, but I will correct this and I will rebound.

    I was living in Atlanta at this time, and was working as a delivery person who just happened to be delivering at the Omni where he said this. I do not know if it made it into the actual coverage about him at the time, but I will never forget his words.

  • Real Estate Investor · OH · Member since 2008 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    17y

    Vincent,

    As a matter of fact, I have read books by all three of the people you mentioned. Furthermore, I did not make any defamatory comments about any of them. I merely pointed out the FACTS about each of these people.

    For example, Trump may have started out with $200,000 (I don't know that to be true), but he also started out with a very rich father who already had the contacts to ensure that things went well. He had about as much in common with the typical newbie on BP as I have with The Chosen One!!!

    Furthermore, I haven't seen a single SECRET in any of their books that will help a person succeed in real estate. If you've seen such a secret that has been provided by ANY guru, please point it out! I'm only looking for one secret.

    Mike

  • Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    17y

    I'm with Mike oh on this one. If Trump even had the 200K to start, that was definitely enuff to jump start an investment program!! As to Robert Allen, and as I stated before on here. He was a nice guy when we lived in the same neighborhood almost 30 years ago, but I told him he would get people in trouble with the No Money Down crap. That isn't difficult to do, as he did( it was in SF where he accepted the challenge to buy with no money down and bought 4 or 5 overpriced condos) but the trouble started 30 days later when he had to make the first mortgage payment on those alligators, Maybe that wasn't the greatest plan, as evidenced by how many people couldn't service the debts, lost the properties to foreclosure and declared BK, as did Robert Allen. Iv'e never known him to make thatmuch on real estate- but rather the books,seminars etc as with others like Mark Haaroldsen, Wade Cook and Russ Whitney, imo. I've yet to find ANY seminar guy or guru guy that was actually for the investor, and I've even spoken for some. For the most part, stay away from them, imo. Rich.

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