I'm real close to purchasing this educational package:
http://www.dodeals.com/order/RealEstateREVolutionSystem.php
Who can give me good reasons why I should not? Of course, first hand experiences would be best.
I'm a fairly new investor though I have owned several rental properties over the years, mostly homes that I moved out of and decided to rent for a while before selling. Most recently I purchased a home at auction strictly for investment purposes.
My goal is to earn enough to replace my corporate job income and to build some retirement wealth.
For the last several months I've been listening to lots of podcasts and webinars (guru sales pitches). Phil Grove's system has been the most appealing to me.
I may also be looking for a local mentor. Someone in the Charlotte, NC area. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
Tom,
I don't think the lack of investing in education is the common denominator among those who have never taken action. I don't know the stats but many who "invest" in RE education have never done a deal. Someone was telling me about Nouveau Riche and how very few of their "students" actually make money on their own through RE. Most of them go on in the marketing side of the "business" and sell courses. Some do “deals†through NR??????
Sad but true. Most people will not do a deal because they allow their fear to get in the way of taking action.
Hey Brian,
Thanks for the advice. I am using my local REIA as much as possible but not many from the club here in my area. A couple, but not many.
Phil and I did talk specifically about the sub-to deal I am doing. I had almost given up on it and was just going to try a SS until he suggested the wrap or mtg assgnmt.
But, again my concern is how tough it was to get a comp and how slow things are moving around here. I had to go back almost a year just to find 5 comps and their prices ranged from $158k to $85k. I did drive them all and they do all look comparable except that the one that sold for $158k was all brick.
So, what I did to arrive at value was to see how much they all sold for compared to tax value. They all sold for right at 20% over tax value so I applied that to mine to come up with ARV. I confirmed that by asking another investor who lives in the same neighborhood what he thought and without my input he came up with the same price exactly. AND, my contractor is also a Realtor so I'll get his opinion when we inspect it.
Thanks again
Wraps work better if you can establish true equity. Mortgage assignments (or WOFs) are generally a better strategy if the equity is too thin to justify stomaching the default risk for your tenant/buyer. Mortgage assignments are generally better if you want to err on the side of conservatism, which you may want to do for your first deal.
If it is tough then err on the conservative side! Use mortgage assignments until you know the market better. You may pass on some upside, but you won't lose your shirt doing a bad deal.
Back to the OP, what is contained in these 5 digit dollar courses that can't be acquired here on BP for free? What could they possibly have that the folks here can't uncover?
What is contained in college coursework that you can't go online and learn for free spending 100 hours when you could have learned it in 5?
Advocates of the pure free camp seem to place an extremely low value on their time. I honestly think I learn things better in person too. Every person learns differently.
I agree that there is a time element. Go to a university and take business courses, law, accounting, real estate and a couple finance courses, grand total, 3,000 at tops (500 per course auditing the courses without credit toward any degree program). Then spend time specializing in whatever, For the things you don't know, you can ask questions. Tie up with local mentors to gain knowledge in doing while making money.
To suggest that anyone takes a guru course, filled with misconceptions, exagerations, hype, issues that may contradict your local regulation or state laws and then to say they come out making money day one is just not a true representation of any course, even the college route I suggested.
Time, dollars invested, you're far ahead in a formal education than anything else.
There are enough real estate guru books on ebay and at the library if one really feels they must have the guru strategies.
Going the route I suggest enables newbies to identify the BS from the valued information that might be in any guru program. And in the guru books I have scanned through (and not many either) I found such inacurate information in every one of them. But, also had some good stuff for those newbies. Blending the good with the bad makes younger, less experienced investors down a path of believing that all of the information is accurate. That's how people get in trouble, because they didn't know.
No one will convince me in any way that 25K for any guru program is nothing more than a rip off, if your time is that valuable, you don't need to be in real estate. You're not going to hit the ground running after any guru course!
We have some fairly new people here that have taken guru courses and seems all they can do is the talk, they don't have their money nor do they seem to be implementing any program consistently making the kind of money implied by those gurus. Where is the proof that these courses pay, who is really doing it. I bet no one!
Bill...You lump-sum categorize everyone with a "guru" label consistently, even when you know nothing about them. I can promise you that if you spent 10 minutes on the phone with Phill or a large handful of other people selling their services for a fee you would be pretty impressed.
If you read through other responses you will notice that people hedge their language and opinion because they know nothing about the course or the person teaching it. You on the other hand rule with an iron fist and universally dismiss anything non-BP as crap. That is extremely close-minded of you.
I know how much I personally benefited from real estate education. I know tons of others that have done the same. Not every program is modeled using upsells and deceitful tactics. Not every program mixes fact with fiction. Some programs truly are around to make a positive change in a new investor's life and to derive some compensation from the activity. This is a fair and equitable trade IMO.
I think your intentions are pure, but they do a disservice to people seeking independent and unbiased opinions about programs.
Bryan, you're probably right with respet to my bias, guess some pay for the sins of many as in most other aspects of life. As to a disservice, hopefully it will sound the need for due diligence in considering any "program" and I'm sure my advice to a proven route for education is more sound than sending newbies to the guru stores. I did mention using both methods.
Again...commentary about sending people the the "guru stores" is misguided. Not all programs are created equally. Not everyone is a huskster or charlatan.
Formal college education and solid investor training programs are both good uses of money IMO. Aimlessly researching strategies on BP is inefficient IMO. I think this site is great to address specific questions and to share information, but nothing will ever replace hands-on training in the field. Nothing!
I'll not participate in the debate except to say that so far, I am pretty happy with my educational investment. And to say that I wish I could judge someones character and motives as well as you knowing very little more than their name.
But,
My time is worth a lot to me , but I didn't pay 10% of that price! I bought a pkg deal and paid a bit more, but there were some folks there that paid just several hundred dollars I think.
On that point I have to differ. I am not a shrew for Phill and I don't even think I have mentioned his company's name, but I have hit the ground running! Has it paid off yet, no, but I am confident that it will. I have two deals already. 1 was easy; a cash purchase on a killer little buy and hold rental property for less than 50% of value. The other I would have had no idea how to begin structuring a deal on it. I would not have even known what questions to ask in a forum such as this one. I'm doing things that I had never heard of before his course.
Will it all pay off? We'll see and I'll let you know soon.
Bob
Bob...Your "problem" when you start out is you don't know what you don't know. There are bunch of BP members that think EVERY program you pay money for is a waste. I think this is silly, which is clearly demonstrated in your experience and in the collective experience of hundreds of others I have seen benefit from proper training.
I spent a lot of money on my real estate education too and it is more than worth every penny I paid for it. I have seen countless others spend YEARS reading books and getting ready to get ready. The opportunity cost alone is a few orders of magnitude higher than the cost of proper training. This also assumes that you don't screw things up, which could cost far more than the education itself.
Again...to each his/her own. People all learn differently and place varying values on their time.
To paraphrase a wise man: 'it's not how much it costs, it's how much you get in return'.
If Bob or anyone else spends $2500 or even $25000 to get educated and this education propels his career to the point that he's making 6 figures every year from his business, then the return on investment is solid. It's a smart decision; probably one that should be duplicated by others.
I just don't buy the 'it's available on websites or online or in a library' argument. I know 1 person out of several investors who got started solely by reading a book. Most people require the assistance of a mentor or a more sophisticated educational process, just like any other industry or business.
Unfortunately, the majority of people who argue vigilantly against investing in education or working with a mentor never actually close a real estate transaction.
Bob,
Did you ever buy that course and if so, did you benefit from it? If you bought it, can you comment on it.
On that point I have to differ. I am not a shrew for Phill and I don't even think I have mentioned his company's name, but I have hit the ground running! Has it paid off yet, no, but I am confident that it will. I have two deals already. 1 was easy; a cash purchase on a killer little buy and hold rental property for less than 50% of value. The other I would have had no idea how to begin structuring a deal on it. I would not have even known what questions to ask in a forum such as this one. I'm doing things that I had never heard of before his course.
Will it all pay off? We'll see and I'll let you know soon.
Bob
So, Bob, Your comment above was back in June. It is now November. In June which was shortly after purchasing the course, you were still excited about it and your comments Positive. How about Now. It has been 5+ months since you were working on that first deal. Are you still pleased with having spent the money and taken the course and are you still following it's teaching and doin deal specifically related to having taken it.
I have a lot of experience with this topic...I wouldn't draw too many conclusions on the value of the program (good or bad) based on one person's experience. MOST "investors" that start out end up doing virtually nothing despite the best training in the world.
Bob
If you haven't purchased Phil's AMPS course, don't waste your money. The idea and it's presentation make perfect sense in theory, but reality is always more difficult. In the presentation, Phil tells you that finding buyers is much easier than finding sellers. OK, that makes sense.
I purchased the course to have a closer look at the details. First thing I find out is the web site contains over 19,000 buyers, and less than 500 sellers in the entire USA. I guess he wasn't kidding.
The whole premise is that a seller will allow an unqualified buyer to assume his mortgage payments and the due on sale clause is handled by sending a letter to the Bank involved telling them that this is what you are doing. If the bank doesn't reply in 15 days, it is assumed they agree. Problem with that thinking is that the person who makes that decision at the bank may not even see that letter in 15 days.
Look at it a different way. Try sending the bank you have your auto loan with a check for $100.00 and write on the memo line of the check "payment in full". Then wait a couple of months without making any additional payments and see if some big guy with a tow truck doesn't show up to take your car away.
I contacted by e-mail about two dozen members of the program in various parts of the country and not a single one had done a deal - not one.
One last thing. In the presentation Phil tells you that Foreclosure is the Credit Bomb of life and that people who loose their house to foreclosure can plan on being tenants for the next 10 years. That just isn't true. It's about 3 years and most sellers in that position would rather face that problem than dealing with an angry bank suing them for violating the due on sale clause when they finally get a round to it.
Hope that helped,
jason