My first flip- Profit: 19,100

My first flip- Profit: 19,100

Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes

Hey everyone, 

I finally was able to put my deal under contract (again) and we are scheduled to close on May 6. Even though I feel happy about the outcome, I could have done a better job with the design of the flip which would have increased my bottom line/resale value. 

I wanted to thank everyone in the bigger pockets community for helping me out with all the questions I've had. I also want to thank J Scott for his 2 amazing books that really helped me pull the trigger and take action. 

Here is the breakdown of the rehab. Keep in mind I have ADD so my apologies in advance if I go off topic. 

Acquisition price: 56,100 (close date: 10/19/2015)

This is a house located in a southside suburb of Chicago. It's a C area but the house is located in a very nice pocket/block of the neighborhood. This was a Fannie Mae REO that had been listed since 2011 which was initially listed for over 100K. I had initially submitted an offer in the low 50s and the listing agent said there were multiple offers (which I thought it was bs) but decided to submit my highest offer for 61,100. My offer was accepted within the next 2 days and I was super excited thinking I had a huge spread on the property. My offer was submitted based on pictures I had seen on the MLS, and I had estimated 50-55k for the repairs.

During the inspection period I had 3 different contractors giving me a ball park estimate of the rehab costs. I found out the roof needed to be replaced and this wasn't included in my initial rehab estimate.  Every contractor told me the rehab costs were probably somewhere between 60-65K. After going back and forth with Fannie mae, we negotiated the price down to 56,100. At this point, I thought it still was a good deal but not as great as I thought it would be. After looking for properties in the MLS for 6-8+ months, and submitting so many offers, I decided this was the time to take action regardless of the outcome. I figured worst case scenario, I'd be making a very small profit but I would learn a lot from it.

Repair costs: 65,000 

The formal bid came and we were able to reduce some of the expenses to 60,000. The roof was my biggest expense, somewhere around 8,200.  My contractor had estimated 10,700 for the roof (including an additional dumpster). The carpet estimate was 6/sq ft which I thought it was ridiculous,and we reduced it to 2.50 sq/ft.  We also decided to "dress up" the doors instead of replacing them. We only saved 1,000 here and I really regret making that decision. Although the doors, looked great, I just didn't think saving 1,000 offset the benefit of replacing them for new doors. 

After the rehab was done, we had some plumbing issues in the basement. The AC unit was very old and the first couple of buyers pointed it out. I quickly replaced it before having any other buyers coming to see the property. The AC unit was at least 14+ years old and I was charged 2,700 for a new unit including coils. 

Rehab process: 

The rehab started about 10 days after closing date. I was very slow putting all the paperwork together. I wanted to make sure I was very protected in case things go wrong with my contractor. I could had been definitely been more organized and should have had the paperwork in place. It wasn't very hard to manage my contractor but he didn't have any progress the week after he finished the demo. We had a small argument about it, but after that incident, he did a pretty good job keeping with the SOW schedule. The rehab was done by mid December, just 1 week after the expected date.


Financing: 

The rehab was financed through 0 % credit cards. I initially thought about using a hard money lender but I didn't think I was going to make very much money so I decided to use my credit cards. The downside was that my credit score went down from 740 to 620. The upside is that I probably saved around 6,500. 

Asking price/sold price:

The property was listed until February 7 (yes, almost 2 months after the rehab was done). I had decided I was going to list it myself since I was already studying to get my license. Well, I passed my exam the first week of December. But I wasn't aware I had to take some additional classes and pass another test in order to get my license. Classes were not available until mid January so I was cursing at myself for an entire month after I found out about this requirement. 

After pulling some comps, I thought the appropriate asking price would be somewhere between 155,000 and 160,000. I decided to make an appointment with a top producer real estate agent and he told me it wouldn't sell for more than 160,000 and that I should list it for 155,000. 

Before I listed it, I saw a new property hit the market, just within a block of mine, and it was listed for 178,000. I was thinking this guy must be on crack if he thinks the property is going to sell for that. I called and got some feedback from him. It turned out he was an investor listing his own property. He had done a lot of rehabs around the area since the early 90s so I asked him to list my property as long as we split the commission 50/50. Based on his advice, I decided to list the property for 165,000 (By the way, his property got an offer for 185,000 after receiving multiple offers but the property was sold for 165,000 because the FHA appraisal came low).

Offer accepted:

3 days after my property hit the market, I got a full price offer for 165,000. They only asked for the AC unit to be replaced and 3 % towards closing costs. Unfortunately, it didn't work out because they wanted me to fix everything that came on the inspection report. The inspector came up with a pretty ridiculous list of minor details, including moving the water heather to some other place because the furnace was too close from it. The buyer wanted everything fixed from that list so we decided to pass on this one. 

A month later, I had 2 different agents calling me and we agreed on verbal offers. They said they would had the offer ready the next day. Then I waited... and waited... never received the offers. It turned out both buyer's had changed their mind. I was somewhat disappointed and I started doubting if the property was indeed priced correctly. We put a 5,000 price reduction and had many showings but no offers. Finally got the offer a week ago and the buyer decided to waive the inspection as long as I helped with 3 % towards closing costs. The attorney period review is over and the buyer is pre-approved.  There is only a financing contingency so we shouldn't have any issues closing on this one (or at least I hope). Closing date is scheduled for May 6.

Numbers:

Acquisition costs: 56,100

Rehab costs: 65,000

Commission / Holding costs / closing costs: 19,800

Selling price: 160,000

Profit: 19,100

Overview:

It's very important to point out that I would had made very little money if I had decided to use a HML. Splitting the commission 50/50 with the listing agent also helped and although I could have saved money here, developing a relationship with an experienced investor could be very helpful for my future projects. Another of his rehabs sold for 170,000 in the same area, which really makes me think I could have done a better job in the designing aspect of the rehab.

I really think I could have pushed the value of the property to 165,000-170,000, perhaps I would had invested more money on the project, but the profit would had offset those additional costs. 

Overall, I'm happy with the results but it does really bother me knowing I could have made a bigger profit. I definitely learned a lot from this flip and I'm confident I won't be repeating the same mistakes again. 

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Most Popular Reply

Logan AllecBusiness Member
Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 980 votes
10y

Awesome, @Account Closed!  I love that it had been listed since freaking 2011.  It goes to show you that the opportunities are out there if you're willing to look for them!

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  • Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2014 · 103 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Don't be too hard on yourself man! That is a great learning experience plus this put 19k into your pockets that you didn't have before! 

  • Real Estate Investor · Anchorage, AK · Member since 2015 · 117 posts · 42 votes
    10y

    Thanks for sharing your experience and congrats!  I am also considering getting my real estate license on the side.  After you have gotten your license and been through the process of finding a property with an agent over the previous 6-8 months before you found the property, would you recommend getting a license?

    - Connor

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    @Connor Maloney If you don't have a license, I highly recommend putting offers through the listing agent . I had to change my realtor because he was complaining my offers were too low. And perhaps they were, but putting low offers on properties that have been sitting on the market for over 90+days made sense for me. If you have a realtor helping you submitting offers, at the very least have the paperwork prepared so he doesn't have to work too much for you. And don't go tour properties with him unless you're prepared to make a full price offer. When I first started, I used to go and tour the properties first and submitting my offers a day later. This was a huge waste of time because none of my offers were accepted. I found out I should get the offer accepted first and then do my due diligence on the property during the inspection or attorney review period.  

    I think having a license can be extremely helpful, especially for people who are just getting started. You have access to the MLS and therefore you can tour any property you want. This will help you learn your area without depending on another realtor and you can contact listing agents quickly. You also save a lot of money in commissions over the long run and it gives you an advantage over other investors when you are in a multiple offer situation. You technically have an additional 2.5-3 % margin of error since you are not paying for a commission so that allows you to be a bit more flexible with your offers.

  • Solo 401k Expert · Anaheim Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 18k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed

    Thanks for providing all the details. Much like other contributors, your area does seem to have an excellent inventory, as the buyers are able to ask for all repairs on the report. Really liked your approach of partnering with an experienced investor. Good luck for future deals and a successful closure!

  • Investor · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Congratulations on your first flip! I was wondering how you were able to use 0% credit cards for such a large amount of money. My wife and I are trying to finance the purchase of house by getting a hard money loan because we don't qualify for traditional financing or a HELOC. The hard money loans have much larger fees and interest payments. My wife and I just moved from California to Arizona to be closer to our first grandchild. We have our house and four rental properties paid in full, along with a small pension. Since I retired from my job, it has been harder to finance investment properties. Does anyone have any advice on how we might finance the purchase of properties in the Arizona area? We have found a few good deals, but financing is another story. Thanks!

  • Investor · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2014 · 176 posts · 54 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @David Thomas:

    Congratulations on your first flip! I was wondering how you were able to use 0% credit cards for such a large amount of money. My wife and I are trying to finance the purchase of house by getting a hard money loan because we don't qualify for traditional financing or a HELOC. The hard money loans have much larger fees and interest payments. My wife and I just moved from California to Arizona to be closer to our first grandchild. We have our house and four rental properties paid in full, along with a small pension. Since I retired from my job, it has been harder to finance investment properties. Does anyone have any advice on how we might finance the purchase of properties in the Arizona area? We have found a few good deals, but financing is another story. Thanks!

    Hi David,

    DTI is always going to be tough regardless of the lender. Usually local/regional banks will be better and most will consider using 75% of the proposed property's income towards your DTI. Are you claiming the rentals you currently have on your taxes? If not, you'll wanna start.

    Best of luck, 

    Casey 

  • Real Estate Agent · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2011 · 471 posts · 296 votes
    10y

    Cheers to your success Daniel!!!

  • Real Estate Investor · Anchorage, AK · Member since 2015 · 117 posts · 42 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed, 

    Thanks for the great insight to your thoughts on having or not having your real estate license!  Congrats on your first flip!!

    -Connor

  • Real Estate Agent · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2016 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Thank you for that in-depth and informative analysis @Account Closed. It was very helpful!

  • Sewickley, PA · Member since 2016 · 18 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    Congratulations @Daniel Moctezuma!  That is a very respectable profit for your first flip.   I am curious what additional upgrades you would have done if you could do it over again?   Just the doors or were there other things you would have changed?

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    @David Thomas

    @David Thomas The credit cards will depend on your credit score. For traditional financing, banks will look into your credit score, DTI (Debt to income ratio), etc. However, assuming you don't have a very good credit score, you might be able to still get the loan if you put a huge down payment and have a decent amount of cash reserves.


    If your houses are paid off, you can do a cash out refi on them. I've also heard that wells fargo can provide a HELOC for up to 60-65 % LTV on investment properties. I'm not sure how true that is. If big banks are turning you down, you should try calling a portfolio lender in your area.

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    Thank you everyone! 

    @Tanya Bass I didn't like the materials used in one of the bathrooms. It even looked like the bathroom was a bit dated. We kept the old cabinets and painted them. I should had added an additional vanity and maybe convert the bathroom into a master bathroom. Bedrooms didn't have light fixtures so we just plugged lamps to the outlets. And definitely adding more can lights in the lower level and living rooms. I was also considering adding more hardwood flooring in the lower level but our budget was already very tight. The basement looked ok but we also could have added drywall to the ceiling. All these details really add up and in my opinion gives the buyer a perception of higher value. 

  • Surprise, AZ · Member since 2016 · 58 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed...A Huge Congrats to you for taking the 'plunge'! Thanks for the detailed syno

    psis of your flip. 

  • Frisco, TX · Member since 2014 · 33 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed truly inspiring post, awesome job and thanks for sharing

  • Real Estate Investor · Eola, IL · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed Congrats!

    You really went creative with your financing! Did you consider the cost of money (purchase price)) in your net profit?

    Good experience to learn the ropes and you can now go for the next deal and hope you make a considerable bigger profit!

    Cheers!

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    @Gautam S. Thank you! I used cash to purchase the property so there was no financing cost involved there. The cost of financing the rehab was about 2 to 3 points on the amount I borrowed from the credit cards.  These were transaction fees charged by a company that processes card payments. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Thank you so much for sharing your REAL story!  I am very encouraged by your success. Best of luck! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Elk Grove, CA · Member since 2016 · 306 posts · 76 votes
    10y

    Daniel,

    Are banks likely to lend money to a LLC (REI)? I was under the impression that you need to establish some business with them (bank) first. Before banks lend that type of money.

    Congratulations.

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    @Amir B. Banks will only give you 0 % credit cards for 12-18 months if you have a very good credit score. At the time, I had a 740 but it quickly drop to 620 after I maxed the cards. You'd have to open an LLC and you can just google "0 % business credit cards" and a bunch of banks will show up. I also got some personal credit cards at 0 % interest as well.

  • Rental Property Investor · Elk Grove, CA · Member since 2016 · 306 posts · 76 votes
    10y

    I see. So, opening a LLC is the first thing a REI should do or something like that e.g. S Corp, C Corp?

    Thank you.

  • Real Estate Investor · Eola, IL · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 22 votes
    10y

    @Amir B., You should/need not be opening a LLC to just get started on REI. LLC can come later.

    You can start buying properties in you own name and get conventional loans (typically up to 4 properties) to free/preserve up capital you have.

  • Rental Property Investor · Whitsett, NC · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Great job and congratulations on completing your first flip!

  • Investor · King of Prussia, PA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 339 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed Great job man! Continued success!

  • Rental Property Investor · Elk Grove, CA · Member since 2016 · 306 posts · 76 votes
    10y

    Thank you, Gautam.

  • Investor · Smyrna, GA · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 12 votes
    10y
    Congrats this is an awesome learning experience for you and I'm sure you will do even better on the next one and 19k isn't to shabby 😀
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