My first flip- Profit: 19,100

My first flip- Profit: 19,100

Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes

Hey everyone, 

I finally was able to put my deal under contract (again) and we are scheduled to close on May 6. Even though I feel happy about the outcome, I could have done a better job with the design of the flip which would have increased my bottom line/resale value. 

I wanted to thank everyone in the bigger pockets community for helping me out with all the questions I've had. I also want to thank J Scott for his 2 amazing books that really helped me pull the trigger and take action. 

Here is the breakdown of the rehab. Keep in mind I have ADD so my apologies in advance if I go off topic. 

Acquisition price: 56,100 (close date: 10/19/2015)

This is a house located in a southside suburb of Chicago. It's a C area but the house is located in a very nice pocket/block of the neighborhood. This was a Fannie Mae REO that had been listed since 2011 which was initially listed for over 100K. I had initially submitted an offer in the low 50s and the listing agent said there were multiple offers (which I thought it was bs) but decided to submit my highest offer for 61,100. My offer was accepted within the next 2 days and I was super excited thinking I had a huge spread on the property. My offer was submitted based on pictures I had seen on the MLS, and I had estimated 50-55k for the repairs.

During the inspection period I had 3 different contractors giving me a ball park estimate of the rehab costs. I found out the roof needed to be replaced and this wasn't included in my initial rehab estimate.  Every contractor told me the rehab costs were probably somewhere between 60-65K. After going back and forth with Fannie mae, we negotiated the price down to 56,100. At this point, I thought it still was a good deal but not as great as I thought it would be. After looking for properties in the MLS for 6-8+ months, and submitting so many offers, I decided this was the time to take action regardless of the outcome. I figured worst case scenario, I'd be making a very small profit but I would learn a lot from it.

Repair costs: 65,000 

The formal bid came and we were able to reduce some of the expenses to 60,000. The roof was my biggest expense, somewhere around 8,200.  My contractor had estimated 10,700 for the roof (including an additional dumpster). The carpet estimate was 6/sq ft which I thought it was ridiculous,and we reduced it to 2.50 sq/ft.  We also decided to "dress up" the doors instead of replacing them. We only saved 1,000 here and I really regret making that decision. Although the doors, looked great, I just didn't think saving 1,000 offset the benefit of replacing them for new doors. 

After the rehab was done, we had some plumbing issues in the basement. The AC unit was very old and the first couple of buyers pointed it out. I quickly replaced it before having any other buyers coming to see the property. The AC unit was at least 14+ years old and I was charged 2,700 for a new unit including coils. 

Rehab process: 

The rehab started about 10 days after closing date. I was very slow putting all the paperwork together. I wanted to make sure I was very protected in case things go wrong with my contractor. I could had been definitely been more organized and should have had the paperwork in place. It wasn't very hard to manage my contractor but he didn't have any progress the week after he finished the demo. We had a small argument about it, but after that incident, he did a pretty good job keeping with the SOW schedule. The rehab was done by mid December, just 1 week after the expected date.


Financing: 

The rehab was financed through 0 % credit cards. I initially thought about using a hard money lender but I didn't think I was going to make very much money so I decided to use my credit cards. The downside was that my credit score went down from 740 to 620. The upside is that I probably saved around 6,500. 

Asking price/sold price:

The property was listed until February 7 (yes, almost 2 months after the rehab was done). I had decided I was going to list it myself since I was already studying to get my license. Well, I passed my exam the first week of December. But I wasn't aware I had to take some additional classes and pass another test in order to get my license. Classes were not available until mid January so I was cursing at myself for an entire month after I found out about this requirement. 

After pulling some comps, I thought the appropriate asking price would be somewhere between 155,000 and 160,000. I decided to make an appointment with a top producer real estate agent and he told me it wouldn't sell for more than 160,000 and that I should list it for 155,000. 

Before I listed it, I saw a new property hit the market, just within a block of mine, and it was listed for 178,000. I was thinking this guy must be on crack if he thinks the property is going to sell for that. I called and got some feedback from him. It turned out he was an investor listing his own property. He had done a lot of rehabs around the area since the early 90s so I asked him to list my property as long as we split the commission 50/50. Based on his advice, I decided to list the property for 165,000 (By the way, his property got an offer for 185,000 after receiving multiple offers but the property was sold for 165,000 because the FHA appraisal came low).

Offer accepted:

3 days after my property hit the market, I got a full price offer for 165,000. They only asked for the AC unit to be replaced and 3 % towards closing costs. Unfortunately, it didn't work out because they wanted me to fix everything that came on the inspection report. The inspector came up with a pretty ridiculous list of minor details, including moving the water heather to some other place because the furnace was too close from it. The buyer wanted everything fixed from that list so we decided to pass on this one. 

A month later, I had 2 different agents calling me and we agreed on verbal offers. They said they would had the offer ready the next day. Then I waited... and waited... never received the offers. It turned out both buyer's had changed their mind. I was somewhat disappointed and I started doubting if the property was indeed priced correctly. We put a 5,000 price reduction and had many showings but no offers. Finally got the offer a week ago and the buyer decided to waive the inspection as long as I helped with 3 % towards closing costs. The attorney period review is over and the buyer is pre-approved.  There is only a financing contingency so we shouldn't have any issues closing on this one (or at least I hope). Closing date is scheduled for May 6.

Numbers:

Acquisition costs: 56,100

Rehab costs: 65,000

Commission / Holding costs / closing costs: 19,800

Selling price: 160,000

Profit: 19,100

Overview:

It's very important to point out that I would had made very little money if I had decided to use a HML. Splitting the commission 50/50 with the listing agent also helped and although I could have saved money here, developing a relationship with an experienced investor could be very helpful for my future projects. Another of his rehabs sold for 170,000 in the same area, which really makes me think I could have done a better job in the designing aspect of the rehab.

I really think I could have pushed the value of the property to 165,000-170,000, perhaps I would had invested more money on the project, but the profit would had offset those additional costs. 

Overall, I'm happy with the results but it does really bother me knowing I could have made a bigger profit. I definitely learned a lot from this flip and I'm confident I won't be repeating the same mistakes again. 

13Reply
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Most Popular Reply

Logan AllecBusiness Member
Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 980 votes
10y

Awesome, @Account Closed!  I love that it had been listed since freaking 2011.  It goes to show you that the opportunities are out there if you're willing to look for them!

Clarita CPA Group516 Reviews
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65 Replies

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  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y
  • Logan AllecBusiness Member
    Accountant · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 980 votes
    10y

    Awesome, @Account Closed!  I love that it had been listed since freaking 2011.  It goes to show you that the opportunities are out there if you're willing to look for them!

    Clarita CPA Group516 Reviews
  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y
  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y
  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed  congrats good learning experience.. I did a flip in your area and that will be the last one.

    I ran into the same issues.. first buyer wanted everything fixed... second buyer sale failed because the lender was a bozo... 3rd one was cash but they wanted everything done as well. I made them put up 5k non refundable and then went ahead with the punch list

    I think in that area inventory is still not tight enough that buyers take homes inspections as full blown punch lists.. city inspections were horrid tax's are sky high ( property) 

    Defiantly one of the tougher jurisdictions to work.. If I ever did another one or funded another one there.. I would have to have a HUGE spread to make up for doing business there.

    To do this and make money with all that is stacked against you was AWESOME..

    now you will know going forward what to expect...

  • Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed congratulations on this!  I bet you learned more from this one transaction than anything else.  Best of luck on your future deals!

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs  Thank you!

    Did you flip a property in the city of Chicago or the southside suburbs? I've heard many complaints from investors saying it takes forever to get permits with the city. Property taxes are ridiculously high in the south side suburbs. I've seen some properties for under 200K with taxes as high as 10K. 

    @Betty Sanders Thank you!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed  my flip was a suburb.. the little city was just as bad as the big city.

    you guys have your work cut out there.. south side 2 to 4 flats even though tax's are high price points if you work with the right company are good and rents cover it.

  • John CasmonPro Member
    Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Account Closed Congratulations! Making money on your first flip is always a good thing. You've already gained knowledge and experience so you'll do even better on the next one. Which suburb is this property? Are you looking only in the South Suburbs for future flips?

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    @John Casmon This one is in Glenwood, IL. A big pool of the potential buyers were first time home buyers and I'm not sure if I want to deal with them again. They seem to be very emotional about the  whole process buying process so I'd only consider flipping there again if I have a much bigger spread. I'd much rather go to a northwest suburbs where demand is more stable and it also has bigger profit margins. 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    10y

    Well done @Account Closed!  Thank you for sharing lessons learned, especially!

  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2014 · 382 posts · 123 votes
    10y

    I've said that I am paying for my education with the money going towards the rehab...

    Great Job on this! I am looking forward to seeing your next one!!

  • Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Hey everyone, 

    I finally was able to put my deal under contract (again) and we are scheduled to close on May 6. Even though I feel happy about the outcome, I could have done a better job with the design of the flip which would have increased my bottom line/resale value. 

    I wanted to thank everyone in the bigger pockets community for helping me out with all the questions I've had. I also want to thank J Scott for his 2 amazing books that really helped me pull the trigger and take action. 

    Here is the breakdown of the rehab. Keep in mind I have ADD so my apologies in advance if I go off topic. 

    Acquisition price: 56,100 (close date: 10/19/2015)

    This is a house located in a southside suburb of Chicago. It's a C area but the house is located in a very nice pocket/block of the neighborhood. This was a Fannie Mae REO that had been listed since 2011 which was initially listed for over 100K. I had initially submitted an offer in the low 50s and the listing agent said there were multiple offers (which I thought it was bs) but decided to submit my highest offer for 61,100. My offer was accepted within the next 2 days and I was super excited thinking I had a huge spread on the property. My offer was submitted based on pictures I had seen on the MLS, and I had estimated 50-55k for the repairs.

    During the inspection period I had 3 different contractors giving me a ball park estimate of the rehab costs. I found out the roof needed to be replaced and this wasn't included in my initial rehab estimate.  Every contractor told me the rehab costs were probably somewhere between 60-65K. After going back and forth with Fannie mae, we negotiated the price down to 56,100. At this point, I thought it still was a good deal but not as great as I thought it would be. After looking for properties in the MLS for 6-8+ months, and submitting so many offers, I decided this was the time to take action regardless of the outcome. I figured worst case scenario, I'd be making a very small profit but I would learn a lot from it.

    Repair costs: 65,000 

    The formal bid came and we were able to reduce some of the expenses to 60,000. The roof was my biggest expense, somewhere around 8,200.  My contractor had estimated 10,700 for the roof (including an additional dumpster). The carpet estimate was 6/sq ft which I thought it was ridiculous,and we reduced it to 2.50 sq/ft.  We also decided to "dress up" the doors instead of replacing them. We only saved 1,000 here and I really regret making that decision. Although the doors, looked great, I just didn't think saving 1,000 offset the benefit of replacing them for new doors. 

    After the rehab was done, we had some plumbing issues in the basement. The AC unit was very old and the first couple of buyers pointed it out. I quickly replaced it before having any other buyers coming to see the property. The AC unit was at least 14+ years old and I was charged 2,700 for a new unit including coils. 

    Rehab process: 

    The rehab started about 10 days after closing date. I was very slow putting all the paperwork together. I wanted to make sure I was very protected in case things go wrong with my contractor. I could had been definitely been more organized and should have had the paperwork in place. It wasn't very hard to manage my contractor but he didn't have any progress the week after he finished the demo. We had a small argument about it, but after that incident, he did a pretty good job keeping with the SOW schedule. The rehab was done by mid December, just 1 week after the expected date.


    Financing: 

    The rehab was financed through 0 % credit cards. I initially thought about using a hard money lender but I didn't think I was going to make very much money so I decided to use my credit cards. The downside was that my credit score went down from 740 to 620. The upside is that I probably saved around 6,500. 

    Asking price/sold price:

    The property was listed until February 7 (yes, almost 2 months after the rehab was done). I had decided I was going to list it myself since I was already studying to get my license. Well, I passed my exam the first week of December. But I wasn't aware I had to take some additional classes and pass another test in order to get my license. Classes were not available until mid January so I was cursing at myself for an entire month after I found out about this requirement. 

    After pulling some comps, I thought the appropriate asking price would be somewhere between 155,000 and 160,000. I decided to make an appointment with a top producer real estate agent and he told me it wouldn't sell for more than 160,000 and that I should list it for 155,000. 

    Before I listed it, I saw a new property hit the market, just within a block of mine, and it was listed for 178,000. I was thinking this guy must be on crack if he thinks the property is going to sell for that. I called and got some feedback from him. It turned out he was an investor listing his own property. He had done a lot of rehabs around the area since the early 90s so I asked him to list my property as long as we split the commission 50/50. Based on his advice, I decided to list the property for 165,000 (By the way, his property got an offer for 185,000 after receiving multiple offers but the property was sold for 165,000 because the FHA appraisal came low).

    Offer accepted:

    3 days after my property hit the market, I got a full price offer for 165,000. They only asked for the AC unit to be replaced and 3 % towards closing costs. Unfortunately, it didn't work out because they wanted me to fix everything that came on the inspection report. The inspector came up with a pretty ridiculous list of minor details, including moving the water heather to some other place because the furnace was too close from it. The buyer wanted everything fixed from that list so we decided to pass on this one. 

    A month later, I had 2 different agents calling me and we agreed on verbal offers. They said they would had the offer ready the next day. Then I waited... and waited... never received the offers. It turned out both buyer's had changed their mind. I was somewhat disappointed and I started doubting if the property was indeed priced correctly. We put a 5,000 price reduction and had many showings but no offers. Finally got the offer a week ago and the buyer decided to waive the inspection as long as I helped with 3 % towards closing costs. The attorney period review is over and the buyer is pre-approved.  There is only a financing contingency so we shouldn't have any issues closing on this one (or at least I hope). Closing date is scheduled for May 6.

    Numbers:

    Acquisition costs: 56,100

    Rehab costs: 65,000

    Commission / Holding costs / closing costs: 19,800

    Selling price: 160,000

    Profit: 19,100

    Overview:

    It's very important to point out that I would had made very little money if I had decided to use a HML. Splitting the commission 50/50 with the listing agent also helped and although I could have saved money here, developing a relationship with an experienced investor could be very helpful for my future projects. Another of his rehabs sold for 170,000 in the same area, which really makes me think I could have done a better job in the designing aspect of the rehab.

    I really think I could have pushed the value of the property to 165,000-170,000, perhaps I would had invested more money on the project, but the profit would had offset those additional costs. 

    Overall, I'm happy with the results but it does really bother me knowing I could have made a bigger profit. I definitely learned a lot from this flip and I'm confident I won't be repeating the same mistakes again. 

     Thanks for sharing, and congrats for taking action!

    Curious, how is it that you can get enough of a credit limit to spend $60k on 0% cards? For myself, even with a 800+ credit score, stable well-earning salary, my credit limit they give me per card is only $7-10k.

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    @Andrey Y. I opened up an LLC and applied to several credit card companies using the LLC that offered 0 % interest. I decided to time all my requests before they could find it I was sending too many applications. After I had used a big chunk of my available credit, they cut my credit lines by more than 20 %. Luckily, I had already funded my whole project so I wouldn't recommend anyone to solely rely on credit cards. There is also a 2-3 % fee for every transaction you make. It is definitely cheaper but not free.

  • Professional · Berlin, Berlin · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 13 votes
    10y

    Well done!

    Seems like you learned a lot already

    can you explain what you mean by "They only asked (for the AC unit to be replaced and) 3 % towards closing costs"

    What do you mean by 3% toward closing costs?

    What are the normal closing costs commission level? (I live in germany, thats why im asking)

  • Louisville, KY · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Great job and thanks for sharing 

  • Real Estate Agent · Richardson, TX · Member since 2014 · 511 posts · 161 votes
    10y

    @Hugues Armand-Delille We had a very old AC unit and thought it would be a good idea to leave it there instead of replacing it so I could save some money. It backfired and potential buyers quickly pointed it out during the first couple of showings I had. I invested an additional 2,700 to had the unit and coils replaced. 

    In regards the closing costs, every buyer needs to pay somewhere between 2-5 % percent of the purchase price towards closing costs. This can include title insurance, loan origination fees, appraisal and survey fees, etc. A lot of buyers prefer to ask for credit towards closing costs rather than having a price reduction of the property so they can keep their cash reserves. 

    Typical commission costs in my area is somewhere between 5-6 % of the property price. But the listing agent will pay part of the 5-6 % (typically 50 %) to the buyer's agent. Keep in mind this is what I've seen in my area and I'm not sure if this rule applies in other states like California. Commission % is always negotiated between the seller and the listing agent. 

  • Professional · Berlin, Berlin · Member since 2015 · 40 posts · 13 votes
    10y

    Hey @Account Closed thanks for the info!

    Best of luck to you. 

    Im working to find my very 1st deal .

    Best of luck to you man!

  • Realtor · Memphis, TN · Member since 2015 · 54 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed: Congrautlations! Well done! Thank you for sharing your experience. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2016 · 58 posts · 13 votes
    10y

    great job @Account Closed and btw the bathroom looks beautiful!! and yes it would have been better to throw in that $1000 and have the door replaced, things like that would have raised the value of the house but I wouldn't worry much about the little "extra" money you would have made here and there like you mentioned, its seems establishing that relationship with an experienced investor was worth it and might bring future deals. good luck  and thanks for sharing

  • Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
    10y

    that 1st home inspector is a moron; moving the water heater cuz it was too close to the furnace? almost all of these homes were built that way.  heck, my house is 10 years old and the heater is right next to it.

  • Investor · South Padre Island · Member since 2016 · 83 posts · 17 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed Thank you for Sharing. Great Job!! I loved your strategy using 0% credit cards. I am curious about how long will it take to revive your credit scores back to original i.e. after you have paid off all the balance. 

  • Tomball, TX · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    Thank you for sharing this @Account Closed, Im still researching and learning so I can get started and this was eye opening and helpful. Congrats!

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 155 posts · 42 votes
    10y

    Great post!  Keep us updated on the sale!!! 

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