Trying to get my first commercial deal.

Trying to get my first commercial deal.

Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes

Working on my first deal and got a roadblock before offer was written.

The unit is an 8 plex owned by a woman with nothing owed on it.  This has been for sale for a little over a year.

Asking $199,900

I asked the broker if she would do seller financing, since she doesn’t owe anything on this and she was open to that.

A little detail- Cap rate=12% DSCR=1.9 COC (based on my offered down payment)= 109%

I offered full price with $5,000 down, 4.5% with a 20 year amortization and a balloon in 5 years.

She came back with $25,000 down and a 2 year balloon.

I countered with $12,000 down and a 3 year balloon.She (and her grandson) wanted to settle on a 7% 3year, but they wanted to stick with the 25K down.

I don't have 25K at the moment, so I was wanting to stick with 12K

The broker mentioned that she would need the 25K because her closing cost would be around $15K.

I told him I didn't think we would have closing if she is financing and was told that we would go through the normal closing at the title co. and she would need the closing.

So, I am confused.  I contacted a broker that I have been working with and he said that sounds absurd. Unless she has a note (I asked and there is none) or unless they were wanting her to pay a fee up front.

This would have been my first commercial deal, but I’m thinking I’ll need to walk away.    Maybe check back in a few months….Any thoughts?

This negotiating is exciting, none the less.

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Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 74 votes
9y

Almost all of the closing costs are the commissions.  I have been a Real Estate  broker since 1974 and have sold a lot of property with seller financing.  I always charged more commission than any other brokers in the area but I would take my commission the same as the seller.  In your example, I would take my percentage of commission as money came in, on the down payment and on each payment received.  Most of the sales were 10% commission on vacant land.  Let's say the agent would get $1,200 (if 10%) and each payment would be a little slice to broker.  He could increase his percentage slightly above normal and then agree to the above.  Broker has to get the ok from the managing broker.

The other possible option is to break the financing into a first and second mortgage. Assume $200,000 sales price, $140,000 first, $12,000 down and a second mortgage of $48,000. Find someone that will buy the first or the second mortgage at the table. She has more money, and you have a deal. I structure these type of deals at 6.99% on the first since it is a 70% LTV and ammortize for a long period of time, then I do the second mortgage at 7.99% for a lesser period of time. The buyer for the first is usually a retired individual that is looking for long term higher interest than his bank is willing to pay and it is secured by a real estate mortgage.

The second mortgage, the seller can hold for a period of time, they are familiar with the property, they have gotten the down and the sale of the first so they have money in their pocket and still have an income that is higher rate than they can get at the bank, or you can help find someone that will buy the second for a short time while you get property up and refinanced.  Agent got full pay, seller got property sold and got their money and you got the property.  If brokers would look at the problem in a different way, it would change what they see.

Good luck. 

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  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Yes, it's normal to go through a standard closing, even with seller financing.   At least part of the reason they want more down, is so the commission can be paid to the broker.    Go scrounge up the down payment. 

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    Thanks. I will work on that. 

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Also start working on your refinance plan early, so the balloon doesn't get you. 

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    yea.  I started collecting info for a funding package.  I know it's early, but that balloon concerns me a little. 

  • Investor · Bentonville, AR · Member since 2014 · 759 posts · 379 votes
    9y

    @Jack Middleton Is there a clear value-add play that you can execute within the timeframe to make sure that you are able to avoid the balloon?

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    Yes. The rents are below market. She hasn't raised them in a few years. I also need to improve parking and I thought about adding a cover for it. Buildings are in pretty good shape. 

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    How much are the rents?   What should they be?

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    could replace some appliances and a few little things later. Wife thinks some landscaping would be good to get done too

    Rents are: $400 and $450. I could go to $450 and $500 right away without too much sticker shock. That would add 400 / month

    She was paying some utilities too which I could have tenets pay.  I'll have to calculate it. 

  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 74 votes
    9y

    Almost all of the closing costs are the commissions.  I have been a Real Estate  broker since 1974 and have sold a lot of property with seller financing.  I always charged more commission than any other brokers in the area but I would take my commission the same as the seller.  In your example, I would take my percentage of commission as money came in, on the down payment and on each payment received.  Most of the sales were 10% commission on vacant land.  Let's say the agent would get $1,200 (if 10%) and each payment would be a little slice to broker.  He could increase his percentage slightly above normal and then agree to the above.  Broker has to get the ok from the managing broker.

    The other possible option is to break the financing into a first and second mortgage. Assume $200,000 sales price, $140,000 first, $12,000 down and a second mortgage of $48,000. Find someone that will buy the first or the second mortgage at the table. She has more money, and you have a deal. I structure these type of deals at 6.99% on the first since it is a 70% LTV and ammortize for a long period of time, then I do the second mortgage at 7.99% for a lesser period of time. The buyer for the first is usually a retired individual that is looking for long term higher interest than his bank is willing to pay and it is secured by a real estate mortgage.

    The second mortgage, the seller can hold for a period of time, they are familiar with the property, they have gotten the down and the sale of the first so they have money in their pocket and still have an income that is higher rate than they can get at the bank, or you can help find someone that will buy the second for a short time while you get property up and refinanced.  Agent got full pay, seller got property sold and got their money and you got the property.  If brokers would look at the problem in a different way, it would change what they see.

    Good luck. 

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    @Duke Marquiss  wow. Sounds doable after I digest that. I'm pretty new at this, but I may be able to work this. 

    Thanks

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    @Duke Marquiss  That's some great information.  It sounds like you are really experienced. 

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y
    Thanks again Duke Marquiss I proposed the second to them and that got an approval when I mentioned that she would get more cash. Now I'm contacting friends to try and sell the second. The broker still hasn't written a formal offer- I don't understand this process, I thought I could secure an offer and then shop it. Oh well. Thanks for the help.
  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 74 votes
    9y

    Write the offer and get it accepted before spending much more time on the deal.  Agent is obligated to write and present any offer that you make.  Agent can't make any decision for the seller.  It is the only way that everyone involved knows what is going on.  Also, you will have more luck selling the first mortgage.  Other things that you can do, is find someone that will buy what is called a partial on the second, say 3-5 years of the payments which is easier than trying to sell the entire second.

    Keep on keeping on.  Good luck

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y
    Thanks Duke Marquiss I met with him and put in an offer on Saturday. I am waiting for that to be accepted, or rejected. I am getting funds for the down payment. I should know in a day or two.
  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y
    I just found out the offer was accepted. We start the due diligence phase. Boy, one way to learn is just to do it. As I get past a phase of this project I study more and move on. I love it so far.
  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 74 votes
    9y

    You nailed it.  A transaction is just a series of problems that you just have to face when they arise.  If I knew all the problems in advance, I probably wouldn't do half the deals.

  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    9y

    Haha. I understand what you're talking about. @Duke Marquiss  . it really is satisfying to be able to help someone while accumulating assets.  I hope I can repeat this process soon. 

  • Fort Collins, CO · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 74 votes
    8y
    Just checking in to see if you got your deal done.
  • Investor · Seymour, IN · Member since 2016 · 165 posts · 32 votes
    8y

    @Duke Marquiss

    Thank you for your concern.  No sir, we didn't get that deal.  The sale of my house fell through.  The equity was going to be my down payment....  Had a contract on the one that would give us the down payment and that was why I tried to move on the 8-plex with a contingency for that sale.

    I guess I should have waited, but the owner waited until another offer came in and i told them to go ahead so I wouldn't be holding her up.

    I did gain a broker who is working with me to find another 8-12 unit for me, and after sharing the business plan from the LLC, he has been really eager to help. So we gained a relationship, and I'm hoping when we can get that sold (still hope it's the first part of 2018) he will be able to have something off-market that we can get a similar deal on. He has been talking to investors who might be wanting to sell.

    I also gained experience negotiating seller financing, so I think it is still a win for us.

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