Unpermitted addition in Phoenix

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Unpermitted addition in Phoenix

Yader Gomez
Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 37 posts · 7 votes

Hello all,

I just went under contract for a great property with two homes on the lot and I plan to owner-occupy for several years. The zoning is in order, separate meters, good neighborhood. But it turns out that the master bed and bath for the main house (where I'll be living) is an unpermitted addition. This helped me get the property at the price I did. 

However, I'm concerned what this means for me going forward. Everything I've read after looking through tons of previous threads suggests that it's not much of a problem if disclosed (which the seller did), not counted in the sq ft of the property when considering the sale price (which they also did correctly), and is also less of a hassle if the property is intended for buy and hold as opposed to a flip (which I plan to buy and hold). 

My main concern is for the distant future when I intend to rent this front house out as well. The master has windows but they're high up and small. So in order for me to get a permit for an egress window, the addition itself needs to be permitted I'm assuming. I'm no professional but at least to my untrained eye the construction looked solid. What are the steps for me to get this permitted? What can I expect the costs to be for best case scenario of hiring an engineer and getting the city to grant a permit? I assume the costs are a nightmare in the worst case scenarios of a either a major rebuild or full teardown of the addition. Any help is appreciated! 

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Wes Blackwell
Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 738 posts · 1k+ votes
8y

@Yader Gomez

There are several ways to approach this:

  1. Don't get it permitted. And when you put a bigger window in it, don't get a permit for that either. I won't tell if you won't ;-)
  2. Ask the seller to get it permitted while you're still in contract. Although, that may change the price you end up buying it for...
  3. Get it permitted yourself after escrow (but get it inspected during escrow so you know what to expect, and whether or not it's a deal breaker)

My best advice is to get a contractor who knows his stuff to take a look at it and tell you if it was built to code. If you're going to avoid getting permits, always make sure you build to code so if you get caught you don't have to do any remodeling.

If it's not built to code, it really depends on what was done incorrectly and how much it's going to cost to fix. For example, if the framing was subpar, you could end up rebuilding the entire room! (No bueno!)

Better to know now while you still have an inspection contingency and can back out than to be unpleasantly surprised later.

Otherwise, you're kind of opening a can of worms by doing it after closing and inviting a building inspector to come stick his nose in everything. Depending on how much of a stickler they are that could be a real problem. 

Get a contractor to look at it, and then make your decision because you'll be way more informed of what each option is going to cost you. I'm sure he'll even give you a bid.

It's not going to be too costly if everything is up to current standards, but if it's not... it could be REAAAAL bad and you won't know until you have a professional look at it. Anything else we'd say here is just a wild guess.

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  • Wes Blackwell
    Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 738 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Yader Gomez

    There are several ways to approach this:

    1. Don't get it permitted. And when you put a bigger window in it, don't get a permit for that either. I won't tell if you won't ;-)
    2. Ask the seller to get it permitted while you're still in contract. Although, that may change the price you end up buying it for...
    3. Get it permitted yourself after escrow (but get it inspected during escrow so you know what to expect, and whether or not it's a deal breaker)

    My best advice is to get a contractor who knows his stuff to take a look at it and tell you if it was built to code. If you're going to avoid getting permits, always make sure you build to code so if you get caught you don't have to do any remodeling.

    If it's not built to code, it really depends on what was done incorrectly and how much it's going to cost to fix. For example, if the framing was subpar, you could end up rebuilding the entire room! (No bueno!)

    Better to know now while you still have an inspection contingency and can back out than to be unpleasantly surprised later.

    Otherwise, you're kind of opening a can of worms by doing it after closing and inviting a building inspector to come stick his nose in everything. Depending on how much of a stickler they are that could be a real problem. 

    Get a contractor to look at it, and then make your decision because you'll be way more informed of what each option is going to cost you. I'm sure he'll even give you a bid.

    It's not going to be too costly if everything is up to current standards, but if it's not... it could be REAAAAL bad and you won't know until you have a professional look at it. Anything else we'd say here is just a wild guess.

    3Reply
  • Yader Gomez
    OP
    Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 37 posts · 7 votes
    8y

    Thanks for laying out the options pretty clearly @Wes Blackwell! I just went under contract today so the first thing I'll do tomorrow is book a contractor to come out and take a look. If the contractor thinks it's all up to code, should it be relatively painless to have an engineer and city inspector sign off on it? Should I ask the seller if he has any drawings for the addition? I think he may have been the owner it was built under. 

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  • Michael Hacker
    Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2013 · 167 posts · 127 votes
    8y

    @Yader Gomez You are correct, if you try to get a permit for the window, the city will pull up a satellite image of the home, see the addition and cross reference the permit history.  They would then require a permit for the existing addition.  Is the home actually located in the City of Phoenix?  If so, you should be able to get the addition permitted through a program called 'Permit by Inspection'.  This is actually fairly painless - you may only need a site plan & floor plan so the engineering / architecture work is very minimal.  

    Fire egress is a fairly serious issue, so I would think you should be able to negotiate the fix during the inspection period.  I deal with the Phoenix building department quite often, so feel free to PM me with any specifics.

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  • Wes Blackwell
    Real Estate Agent · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2016 · 738 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Yader Gomez

    Ask for anything and everything. The more information you have, the better investing decision you can make. 

    You should be able to lookup the permit history for the property by looking online here:

    https://apps-secure.phoenix.gov/PDD/Search/Permits

    But you can always head down the local building department and tell them you're under contract for the purchase of the property and wanted to see what was permitted, what the process will be, ask questions about your window, etc.

    Here is a link to the brochure for the program I believe @Michael Hacker was talking about:

    https://www.phoenix.gov/pddsite/Documents/TRT/dsd_trt_pdf_00690.pdf

    Hope this information helps! Best of luck!

    1Reply
  • Yader Gomez
    OP
    Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 37 posts · 7 votes
    8y

    Thank you all for your help @Michael Hacker @Wes Blackwell @Account Closed

    I have an update. We spoke to a few contractors and my agent even called the city of Phoenix but apparently neither general contractors nor the city inspectors can inspect the addition to see if it's up to code once it's already built. They both only do this during construction. 

    I did get in contact with the city of Phoenix Planning and Development department and they'll be having a residential code review get in contact with me tomorrow to let me know what I can do. Hopefully it's something reasonably painless and not terribly expensive. 

    2Reply
  • Yader Gomez
    OP
    Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2017 · 37 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Final update! Went to the inspection walk through last Friday. The good news: from what the inspector could tell without tearing the walls open, the unpermitted addition looked good and the plumbing and electrical were fine. There were some small things needed on the house and I would have to get the permit for the addition, egress window, and an addition to make a laundry room. The bad: Everything about the front house was great or easily fixable and would have made permitting a breeze. Then comes the curveball. I met the owner who happened to be there since he let the inspectors look around. Nice guy. Gave me a tour. I had already visited the place but this time with commentary from the guy who owned it for 20 years. This was a bit of good luck for me. Because he started telling me about all the unpermitted additions and work he did. He doesn't like paying and waiting for all the permit stuff so he doesn't do it. Giant red flag. The back house was the complete opposite of the front house. It was in a pretty sorry shape. Lots of parts needed stucco on the outside, some parts of the house and the garage attached had windows borded up lazily with plywood and painted over instead of properly sealed. There were termites, mold, and an unpermitted addition to this house that made it violate the clearance from the back of the property line. I got to see all I needed and pulled out of this deal. Thanks again for all the help here everyone! Time to keep looking.
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