SEEKING INPUT! Been chasing RE investing and retirement dreams!

SEEKING INPUT! Been chasing RE investing and retirement dreams!

Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes

Hoping investors with experience can advise me here. Or, any new investor comments or insights are welcome.

My story in a compressed version. I have been managing car dealerships since 27 years old--1995--but have always had a passion in RE. A car wholesaler handed me a book one day, RICH DAD POOR DAD, and I could not put the book down.

Just weeks before 9/11 occurred, I invested into a manufactured home. I ONLY reason I did this was because my brother in law managed a manufactured home  dealership. They would take trade ins and figured them for zero, so I saw an opportunity to park the money into their trade ins and they would resale them for me. I did this roughly 12 times, and in 2002 I bought my first fixer upper. I had been looking for distressed properties and could not find a good enough deal. I paid $80,000 for a small 3 bedroom and fixed it up (rather simply when I look back), sold it to one of my salesman and made $27,000. I was hooked!

In those days, I could find some bank owned properties here and there. I knocked on a door and asked a woman, "Hello, this is a strange question, but would you like to sell your home?", and Gail responded, "yes, I would, I have been praying that someone would take this." I am not kidding, I merely saw tall bushes and a home in horrible repair, and I did not research her late payment history with the bank. I made roughly $30,000 on this deal. To speed up here, I found homes anywhere from knocking on doors, networking, realtors, word of mouth, and writing letters. I flipped roughly 20 properties from 2002-2009, while working a full time job and coaching my sons basketball teams. My wife wanted to kill me, but I had a overwhelmingly desire to retire and making this extra income I felt was the way to accomplish this. We paid a lot of short term taxes doing these flips and saved up money so we could invest in RE.

In 2007, I picked up the Sunday paper and my wife and I agreed to go look at a triplex open house. It was a 1900 older building near OSU campus, and needed a bunch of work. I negotiated the price down within the week from the $250,000 asking price down to $190,000 AS IS, and took my first buy, fix and hold deal. We invested roughly $50,000 into rehabbing this and found tenants. My first tenant, however, violated the NO SMOKING policy and ended up burning the front of this building down two years later (another story). My wife and I also bought another 1900 older run down triplex near the OSU campus in 2007, and one more pre foreclosure 4 plex in 2008 in the midst of a bad economy. The appraisal was $300,000 in a very bad economy and the bank wanted to know how I was purchasing this for $228,000.

In 2011, we were lucky enough to get a 15% ownership via a LLC with a buddy of mine who owned many larger apartments in various states. I used my personal home line of credit to buy into this--$202,500--our portion of the 1.35 million down payment. We paid 5.5 million for 72 units near the college campus. I then needed to sell two of our old triplexes, pay taxes, and pay off our house line of credit.

I switched my employment between dealerships in my town in this ship wrecked economy which began in 2008 and cut my paycheck in half in car sales. I ended up taking 2009 though 2016 off without doing any real estate investing other than the 2011 leap with my partner into this 72 unit building. I had seemingly lost my RE passion and only held the old 4 plex we purchased in 2008 and the 15% ownership in the 72 unit building. We cashed flowed roughly $4500 per month on these two investments. Then in 2016, I knocked off the rust since I went dormant for 7 years! I had hit my 401K pretty hard for years, but was realizing that I could not retire without achieving cash flow. My buddy who let us in the 72 units building always laughed that I worked too hard at 2 jobs, as he shared with me how he earns $45,000 cash flow on all his huge apartment buildings. I asked myself, "have I been doing this all backwards?" That is, flipping so many house, and paying those taxes, while my others buy and hold appreciating assets and make cash flow?

So, in 2016, I set my sights on making some more money invest into the bigger picture of cash flow, and buy and hold. Here were my steps:

1) flipped a 1920 bank foreclosure

2) flipped a second 1915 bank foreclosure (sat for 4 years vacant).

3) Bought a 4 plex that needed $100K in renovations. owner carry.

4) wholesale flipped little house (guy called me from 9 years ago after I stopped by his house).

5) Bought a 4 plex near the other one that needed $120,000 in renovations (sat vacant for 13 years.) owner carry.

6) Bought 2000 square foot house on owner carry roughly $50,000 below market. Breaking even, but bought for equity.

7) Bought a run down 4 plex on owner carry.

8) wholesale flipped older house for $7000 profit.

9) Bought 5 plex 50/50 with my son. First ever commercial loan.

10) Bought 8 plex 50/50 with my son. Second commercial loan.

Due to all of this, I have my interest only debt down from $500,000 to $421,000. This interest only is roughly is $1650 per month. I used my personal home on all of this fix ups and down payments. I have 13 years left of 15 year draw period interest only.

Let's say no vacancies I am cash flowing roughly $14,000 per month on all these RE deals.

What is your opinion here? Do I focus on paying down this HELOC, or try and leverage into bigger apartment building to achieve cash flow? I have these units in Corvallis, Lebanon, Albany, Monmouth, and Forest Grove, so consolidating could be smart, or do I just pay these down?

I am curious on what your thoughts are and I appreciate you reading this long post. I am 51 years old and trying to make future decisions on what is the best course of action. I feel a downturn in the economy approaching, and flipping seems near impossible at the moment finding deals.

Thanks for reading and your thoughts!

Todd Powell

Corvallis, Oregon

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Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y

Pay down the Heloc.  If you find you hate the simple life with a lot of nap opportunities and want to be hunting and hustling all the time, tap the line again to buy more if something comes up. No harm unless they freeze your line.

It's about finding what content means to you.  I put my cleats in the garage and like it.  Some people can never stop.  Ask yourself why you are still hunting 7 times to find your answer.

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  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    7y

    Pay down the Heloc.  If you find you hate the simple life with a lot of nap opportunities and want to be hunting and hustling all the time, tap the line again to buy more if something comes up. No harm unless they freeze your line.

    It's about finding what content means to you.  I put my cleats in the garage and like it.  Some people can never stop.  Ask yourself why you are still hunting 7 times to find your answer.

  • Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Steve Vaughan Great input! My son said basically the same thing yesterday! Sometimes you need to ask the WHY? Paying down riskier debt is always smarter perhaps, but I want to get to retirement, which for me means always doing something RE related anyway, LOL.

  • Lender · Ladera Ranch, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Todd Powell I vote for paying down the HELOC, especially if you're feeling that a downturn is coming. As you know, leverage is great for growing faster but the downside is your situation is less stable. I personally like the idea of keeping my personal residence separate from my investments. We have no HELOC and want to eventually own our house with no debt. I've got 19 rentals and our debt is down to about 50% LTV.

    I've carried way too much leverage in the past and have been hurt by it. I'm much more comfortable with lower levels of debt. I'm not keen on being a landlord for residential properties and I'm thankful that my partner and our property managers take care of our rentals. I've migrated to being a lender and love this position a lot more, no tenants or toilets, although the borrowers of the non performing notes are similar in a lot of ways to the tenants I used to deal with.

    Have you thought of doing 1031 exchanges of your smaller rentals with equity into larger cash flowing apartment buildings?

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    7y

    Realistically as long as you own rental income properties you will never be retired. Personally I don't care about leverage as long as I have reserves and solid positive cash flow. At your age I would probably be looking at paying off the HELOC in a 10 year time frame. No real rush as I see it. At this point in time what you choose should depend entirely on what you would like to do for enjoyment since you will always be working as a investor/landlord while you still own real estate. You have enough income to satisfy most so increasing it is not necessary.

    Do you have sufficient equity to liquidate and get out of real estate entirely to actually retire. Do you enjoy anything aside from working. Have you ever thought what you would actually do if you retired.

    I agree that flipping at this time is definatly not worth the risk but neither is holding if you have plans to liquidate within the next 5 years. The writing s on the wall.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · College Station, TX · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 969 votes
    7y

    @Todd Powell. Retirement takes many forms. Sounds like to me you are looking more for Financial Independence rather than retirement. 

    I would suspect "retirement" for you will not last very long before you will be back into some venture in some way. 

    I call myself "a recovering workaholic" - and would guess the same term could apply in your case. 

    Good luck with this one!

  • Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Jim Cummings you are spot on! “Retirement” to me means not reporting to the same desk everyday, but you are correct, my desire is to still be doing something RE related ! Thank you 

  • Lender · Ladera Ranch, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Todd Powell As a lender or an equity partner that provides capital, you can have the best of both worlds. You can stay involved with RE but become more of a manager that manages his own investments. Find the young, super motivated individuals and let them do all the work! Let them find the deals, manage the tenants, and the rehabs. They'll be happy to do so and you'll get to hear the stories without enduring the headaches directly.

  • Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    @Andy Mirza the good news is that all of my properties are completely rehabbed and fresh, replacing almost everything so the massive maintenance issues should be lower than most. Thanks for your responses! I am uncomfortable with the high interest only debt even though I have great overall cash flow and equities in all of my properties.
  • Lender · Ladera Ranch, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Todd Powell If you're uncomfortable with the high interest only debt, I'd suggest to:

    1. Refinance your rentals that you decide to keep to comfortable LTV/interest rate levels

    2. Use cash out refi money to pay down the HELOC

    3. Sell the properties you don't want to keep to pay off the rest of the HELOC

  • Rental Property Investor · Corvallis, OR · Member since 2018 · 840 posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Andy Mirza finally paid off the $421,000 HELOC! Headed the right direction

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