Labor of Love Flip? Closing in 5 days

Labor of Love Flip? Closing in 5 days

Flipper/Rehabber · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 23 votes

I close in 5 days on a 1927 beauty in Toledo, Ohio. REO will cost me $99k and ARV is $195k. 2300 SF, 3/2.5, 2 car attached garage.

Previous owner installed PEX plumbing but didn't pull any permits. I'm nervous about this and what the building inspectors will do because I think they'll be in this house. It needs some big work done.

To get the clay tile roof fixed $15k. I have to wait until spring and the roof is leaking.  It's partially covered by a tarp.  Roofer told me to setup bins and buckets in attic to get through winter in Ohio.  That freaks me out.

Has 3 YO boiler but has never had AC and will need it.  All of the steel windows need scraping and painting.  Aside from that, I could have whole house electrical replaced (new service was already run) and will at least need to run new electric to the kitchen.  Needs some plaster work from the roof leaks & plumbing cutouts, 2 full baths are pretty much a gut, new lighting, and my team will refinish the floors, replace kitchen & back hall floors, paint, and clean.  Also, needs some landscaping, new storm doors, and a little exterior stucco work.  I will probably have some of the kitchen enlarged because an old "phone room" butts into it.  This will require some new cabinetry (keeping the gorgeous originals it already has.

This will be a restoration more than a renovation.  I'm trying to bring it back to it's original glory with some modern conveniences, not gut it.

I'm very excited about doing this one.  I find old ones like this to be more gratifying.  However, I'm wondering if there's really going to be any profit left.  Most scared of the non-permitted plumbing cost because I didn't factor it in.

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Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2019 · 115 posts · 72 votes
6y

@Kim Heretick Yes, that's the one. I did some digging and the bank is going through bankruptcy so my hope was they would let it go for less, and they did. The mortgage was around 226k and they let it go at 133k. One individual went back and forth with the bank up to 133. I went back and forth with that guy 133 to 153. He quit, I thought I had it after "going once, twice..." Then a 3rd person started bidding and I stopped at my max of 156 😖 It was a cool house, I still have some remorse about not going a little further but I'm also glad I made a game plan and stuck to it.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Wow, that's a neat house with lots of character.

  • NYC, NY · Member since 2016 · 619 posts · 456 votes
    6y

    She's a beauty.

    Best of luck.

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2019 · 115 posts · 72 votes
    6y

    @Kim Heretick

    Beautiful house, Kim. That will be a fun project. Where in Toledo?

    I wouldn't worry too much about the plumbing. Tapping PEX into existing plumbing is pretty easy as long as they were semi-competant and I don't find it super alarming that permits were not pulled. Probably should have, but very likely that it's OK.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    @Daniel Kramer, it's in the Beverly area of Toledo near Anthony Wayne Trail and Copland. Nice area and nice street but prices max out around $200k if it doesn't have a river or golf course view.

    Thank you for your feedback on the plumbing.  That would be a huge relief!

    Kim

  • Rental Property Investor · Brooke Park Drive · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    Has great potential.  Could also be a huge money pit.

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2019 · 115 posts · 72 votes
    6y

    Yep, I am familiar with the area. That's a good way to put it, nice area but does have a bit of a ceiling. It's not really my side of town but I almost bought a house on River Rd right there that was up for auction. Had the 2nd to last bid on it but had to stop at my max offer. 

    Best of luck to you, looking forward to seeing the after pictures. 

    Dan

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    @Daniel Kramer, I think I know the one.  Spanish style?  I considered buying that one so much that I took my kayak past it to see how it was.  Looked great.  Wasn't falling toward the river from what I could see.  I didn't go to the auction that day because I thought the bank would be there to bid it up too much but they didn't end up doing that.  I'm glad I wasn't bidding against you!

  • Real Estate Agent · Toledo, OH · Member since 2019 · 88 posts · 38 votes
    6y

    @Kim Heretick That house will be beautiful once you’re done with it! I also don’t think that the plumbing should be an issue from a permit standpoint, I see it all the time.

    My biggest question would be regarding adding AC, especially in that age of home. Depending on the layout of the home, it could be quite expensive and could mean breaking into the plaster walls and ceilings, which is a big cost to keep it looking good. I would actually consider not putting in AC, although I understand the desire to have it.

    If you’d like, I’m happy to walk through the home with you to give my thoughts both as an investor and a Realtor.

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2019 · 115 posts · 72 votes
    6y

    @Kim Heretick Yes, that's the one. I did some digging and the bank is going through bankruptcy so my hope was they would let it go for less, and they did. The mortgage was around 226k and they let it go at 133k. One individual went back and forth with the bank up to 133. I went back and forth with that guy 133 to 153. He quit, I thought I had it after "going once, twice..." Then a 3rd person started bidding and I stopped at my max of 156 😖 It was a cool house, I still have some remorse about not going a little further but I'm also glad I made a game plan and stuck to it.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    @Chad Boyers Thank you for your feedback and offer!  I've researched the AC options a bit and there are 2 that won't require running duct work everywhere.  That would be awful.  

    One, is to have a Dual Zone System.  They install one unit in the attic and another in the basement, then run the duct work only in the attic to upstairs ceilings and in the basement to downstairs floors.

    The other way is to do a Ductless Mini-Split.  They basically put AC on the wall of each room then run the mechanicals to the compressor outside.  Each room has it's own control.  However, I've read this fairly inexpensive to install but very costly over the long term.  Like 2x or 3x as much electricity as a window unit.

    I'll be getting HVAC estimates soon and learn about the pro's and con's.  I'm curious because I'm looking for a solution for the upstairs of my own old house on River Rd..  The kids bedrooms are up there and they've been living with the heat but it sucks!

    I would appreciate a visit from you to the new house.  I"d love to get your opinions.  Just be aware I have a selling agent and I wouldn't trade her for the world.  She's done an outstanding job for me on 3 sales so far.

  • Real Estate Agent · Toledo, OH · Member since 2019 · 88 posts · 38 votes
    6y

    @Kim Heretick Yeah, I think the dual zone likely would be the route that I would look at. Shoot me a DM once you’ve closed on the house so I can take a look at it. Who knows, I may end up with a buyer in that area by time you’re ready to list it 😁 And don’t worry, I would never try to take you away from another agent, especially one that you love so much!

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2019 · 115 posts · 72 votes
    6y

    @Kim Heretick Also check out high-velocity air conditioning systems. It might be your most expensive option, and you'll have to determine if you'll get enough return for it, but I've seen it done in nicer old homes with boiler heat. Think of it like a non-invasive surgery for your house. Smaller diameter (~4") flexible ducts are used that can snake through the walls. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    @Daniel Kramer I got 6 estimates on the AC.  Unfortunately, high-velocity is crazy expensive.  I guess it's gone up a lot the past 5 years (so the estimators said).  With all the other work on the house that needs to be done, I ended up going with traditional forced air AC for the upper floor only, with blower in the attic.  It is $10k and I had perfect closet space to run the line so it didn't mess up the house.  To do the whole house would be $20k (would need 2 systems).  I also got estimates for mini-splits.  They were more/as expensive (would be great if it was just 1 room).  Also, I'm not sure how attractive they would be to buyers and if it would up the resale value as much as forced air will.

    So, hopefully my AC investment will pay off.  I think it will up the value of the home by $10k easily.  It should cool the downstairs a bit because cold air falls.  The neighbor, who was a friend of the previous owner, said the downstairs was fairly comfortable in the summer but the upstairs was hot.  The other downside is since it is a dedicated FA AC system, the vents need to be covered with magnet covers in the winter so ducts don't condensate in the months it's not in use.

    The old steam radiator heat has been wonderful!!!  The house stays nice and warm and the gas bills have been so little.  Shocking for such an old house.  I wish my own home had these big radiators now!

  • Rental Property Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2019 · 115 posts · 72 votes
    6y

    @Kim Heretick Thanks for the update, Kim. Glad things are going well and it sounds like you have a good plan. Are you honing in on a target completion date?

  • Denver, CO · Member since 2019 · 11 posts · 68 votes
    6y

    @Kim Heretick Such a cool project, Kim! Would you mind if I shared this later this week on BiggerPockets social media? 
    If you're okay with it, I would be posting it to our Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter feeds. I would love if I could include your social media handles, too!

    Best of luck with this project!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    @Nikki Frick you sure can!!  Sorry I didn't see this until now.  Just please send me a link if you so.  Thanks!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Maumee, OH · Member since 2017 · 39 posts · 23 votes
    6y

    @Daniel Kramer I don't expect it to be on the market until May, April at the earliest.  I'm still waiting for the roof to be done and to really get into outdoor work.  I also have upstairs plaster damage and bathrooms to finish once the roof leaks are handled.  I've been working on this property and another, slow rolling while I wait for roof.  I can't wait.  They're supposed to start end of this month, weather permitting!

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