Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2019 · 75 posts · 43 votes
Newish to investing. I was just approved for a new mortgage
Does anyone think New York City or Hudson valley is a better investment right now?
I feel BROOKLYN is way overpriced at the moment. I can buy a place cheaper in Hudson valley and make more of a profit when it comes time to sell. Brooklyn I will probably lose money
I am a Real Estate Investor with 2 decades of experience buying only in Brooklyn and have a Portfolio of 10 Brooklyn Properties in Ditmas Park, Windsor Terrace, Clinton Hill and Bed-Stuy.
As of today, I have NOT had issues with tenants unable to pay rent except for some small situations such as a Canadian tenant that wound up being stuck across the border to renew her Visa as the Border was shut down as well.
Obviously, lower income neighborhoods will have a much different experience, which is why I buy only in A to B neighborhoods in Brooklyn.
I would like to suggest you go to Brooklyn Bridge Park on a nice evening, if you have not already done so.
It really is AMAZING the amount of wonderful people enjoying the amenities in Brooklyn. The exodus as has been proposed doesn't seem to be impacting my properties and I have been re-renting several apts between 3 months ago and Now.
That being said, the notice to leave for 3 of my apts are due to moving out of Brooklyn from those that came here out of State. But I don't blame them at all considering that they want to be closer to family right now.
So while I have to do more work to re-rent apts, I'm actually getting higher rents for my specific buildings.
I believe that's the case because High Rise Elevator Apt Buildings are now seen as too dense during a Pandemic. When you step into an Elevator you cannot social distance. Imagine if someone sneezes in an Elevator with you?
I had just listed one of my apts in Clinton hill early this morning for a 1 Bedroom, Balcony Apt in a Brownstone on the Parlor floor that was previously rented for $2,400 for $2,500.
I just got 5 inquiries from tenants that already mentioned to me that they have good qualifications (ie... one is a Psychologist making $150k with an 800+ FICO... etc). I have set up 3 appointments and it has not even been 24 hours yet.
I think if you are Investing in the right areas AND are priced right, it's difficult to go wrong.
I have survived at least 3 Major Crisis in NYC. Those were the Dot Com bust on Wall Street, 9/11 and the Financial Crisis.
I guess I'm used to it, but the Pandemic is just another Crisis to me in which I will be just fine!
Real Estate Agent · New York, NY · Member since 2014 · 160 posts · 45 votes
6y
@Michelle Backer it depends what your goal is. Are you looking to rent it out on Airbnb or are you looking for appreciation? From what I’ve been seeing the last few months, there are deals to be had in NYC and Hudson Valley is on fire because a ton of NYers are buying second homes and overpricing the market. That said, budget between both markets gets you a very different product.
Investor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 148 posts · 252 votes
6y
Hudson Valley market is on fire right now. That is where we invest and this is the most activity we've ever seen. Houses are selling for over asking price just days on market. There is a mass exodus from the city!
Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 219 posts · 174 votes
6y
@Michelle Backer I would say Brooklyn! To much competition right now in Hudson but again what is your strategy? House-hack or are you looking for a investment property?
Lender · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
6y
@Michelle Backer, I think this is a common thread on BP. You need to set your goals, and strategy. If you're looking for immediate cashflow, the Hudson Valley is the move, but as @Paul DeSilva mentioned, the competition is getting intense outside of the city with Covid-19 and people fleeing Manhattan. The NY Times even wrote this article about it, with a home going for $50k over asked. That being said, I think in the MF space, the numbers can still pencil out there.
Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2019 · 75 posts · 43 votes
6y
@Steven Griffin
Yes! I was born and raised New York City. I still live in Brooklyn and would never move. I've seen all of its changes and agree! I've been searching FSBO properties and have had luck negotiating directly w owners. I think Queens is a nice idea. Buying a property in a stable, solid neighborhood, one that has been good for generations. There's so much instability and uncertainty right now, so I want to make sure I make a smart buy.
I DO think however that Hudson valley (if I can find a good deal) would be a smart idea too. Beacon? What are your thoughts? I believe the resale value will double In 5-10 years.
Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2019 · 75 posts · 43 votes
6y
@Scott Wolf
Yes, exactly what I’m thinking ..
I was born and raised in Brooklyn. I’m still here and have seen all of its changes. People are running out of here .. it IS very scary but . Most BROOKLYN people aren’t natives at all, they are transplants from the Midwest. There’s a mass exodus right now.
That being said, I can get a great deal right now! Hold on to it until values go back up.. which they will of course, this is New York City! The city be in debt and fall to **** like it did in the 80’s. If this pandemic continues, it could get very, very bad. It’s so sad..
The other idea that I have: I am trying to get a Great deal here or the Hudson valley idea. Commutable area like beacon. Don’t you agree the resale value could be quite high in 5 years. I predict double?
Lender · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
6y
@Michelle Backer I think buying for speculation in NYC is risky right now(prices may not fall immediately, rental laws are strongly in the tenants favor etc.), and you will need the cash flow to sustain the asset in the meantime.
As for the Hudson Valley, I'm not sure values will double in 5 years, and no one can be. But those areas will always be desirable and garner greater cash flow than NYC.
I am a Real Estate Investor with 2 decades of experience buying only in Brooklyn and have a Portfolio of 10 Brooklyn Properties in Ditmas Park, Windsor Terrace, Clinton Hill and Bed-Stuy.
As of today, I have NOT had issues with tenants unable to pay rent except for some small situations such as a Canadian tenant that wound up being stuck across the border to renew her Visa as the Border was shut down as well.
Obviously, lower income neighborhoods will have a much different experience, which is why I buy only in A to B neighborhoods in Brooklyn.
I would like to suggest you go to Brooklyn Bridge Park on a nice evening, if you have not already done so.
It really is AMAZING the amount of wonderful people enjoying the amenities in Brooklyn. The exodus as has been proposed doesn't seem to be impacting my properties and I have been re-renting several apts between 3 months ago and Now.
That being said, the notice to leave for 3 of my apts are due to moving out of Brooklyn from those that came here out of State. But I don't blame them at all considering that they want to be closer to family right now.
So while I have to do more work to re-rent apts, I'm actually getting higher rents for my specific buildings.
I believe that's the case because High Rise Elevator Apt Buildings are now seen as too dense during a Pandemic. When you step into an Elevator you cannot social distance. Imagine if someone sneezes in an Elevator with you?
I had just listed one of my apts in Clinton hill early this morning for a 1 Bedroom, Balcony Apt in a Brownstone on the Parlor floor that was previously rented for $2,400 for $2,500.
I just got 5 inquiries from tenants that already mentioned to me that they have good qualifications (ie... one is a Psychologist making $150k with an 800+ FICO... etc). I have set up 3 appointments and it has not even been 24 hours yet.
I think if you are Investing in the right areas AND are priced right, it's difficult to go wrong.
I have survived at least 3 Major Crisis in NYC. Those were the Dot Com bust on Wall Street, 9/11 and the Financial Crisis.
I guess I'm used to it, but the Pandemic is just another Crisis to me in which I will be just fine!
Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2019 · 75 posts · 43 votes
6y
@Llewelyn A.
Thanks for this!
So since I’m a native to New York City, it probably WILL be best to buy in the city.
I’ve only lived in nice areas— bay ridge born and raised, park slope, Windsor terrace
I want to buy in an area that’s been nice for generations
I found a property in Brairwood, Queens. It's best to forest hills. Any thoughts on Brairwood? Don't you think I can get a deal right now on a FSBO place?
PS the only reason why I’m considering Hudson valley is because I would use it as a weekend home. The resale value will be high I believe in 5 years which is when I plan to sell anyway
I’m new to this as you can see! Thanks for this insight
I do have a relative that lives in Briarwood, Queens!
I will mention that this same relative owned a 2 bedroom Condo in Carol Gardens just a few blocks away from the Trader Joe's on Atlantic Ave and Court Street.
They sold that Condo around 2009 and bought their home in Briarwood for approximately the same price (around $800k).
HOWEVER, the Condo is probably worth around $1.3 Million or so and their Briarwood Home may not be worth more than $900k to $1 Million.
The appreciation factor is much different.
That being said, they moved mainly because they expanded their family (2 kids) and wanted a bigger place than a 2 Bedroom Condo.
You can't put a price on having a great space for your family!
I offered to manage their Condo as a rental but they couldn't swing owing both properties.
The point here is that there are other factors to take into account when it comes to selecting a neighborhood.
My relatives didn't do well in comparison to Carol Gardens but having some decent appreciation shouldn't be discounted.
The way I like to put it is that my Windsor Terrace 2 Family building I bought in the year 2000 for $140k is now worth around $1.2 Million today.
That's fantastic! BUT.... if I had bought a Williamsburg building in the year 2000 for the $140k.... well... It may be worth over $2 Million now! But I still don't have any regrets.
Obviously, lower income neighborhoods will have a much different experience, which is why I buy only in A to B neighborhoods in Brooklyn.
I'm curious to know what you think of the Bushwick, Bed Stuy, Ocean Hill, Ridgewood area. I see you have a property in Bed Stuy. We bought in the area (2-family; reside in one unit, Airbnb the othher) in 2016 and have seen tremendous appreciation and fantastic Airbnb income so far. Since I'm close by, I'm inclined to buy again.
I'm also looking to BRRRR something, and there are a number of $500k-ish multifamily fixer-uppers in the vicinity. Most are a bit farther afield, however (Brownsville, East New York, Canarsie). I've heard these areas are gentrifying, but I need to do the due diligence.
Harlem, NY · Member since 2015 · 27 posts · 10 votes
6y
Hey @Scott K. I actually just closed on my first deal here in East New York. When I was visiting properties I definitely noticed alot of new development going on so you may be right in that assessment.
Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2019 · 75 posts · 43 votes
6y
@Scott K. I’m not sure about East New York. @Akwasi Degraft I didn’t know about the new developments.
Scott, things might change in nyc. I live in Brooklyn and it’s a mess; it’s especially terrible for families with children. I’m a native and have seen all of its changes.. and this is bad. We don’t know how long this pandemic will go on. Will the city lost its wealthy clients and go into debt? The school system is already losing so much money. that being said, nyc might see rough times for a while.
I’m personally looking at neighborhoods that are solid areas — neighborhoods that have been nice for generations.
Rental Property Investor · Bushwick, Brooklyn · Member since 2020 · 55 posts · 16 votes
6y
@Michelle Backer what makes you think that things are a mess? I have a young child, but he's young enough (18m) that the pandemic has yet to have an effect. We're fully quarantining, but I expect there to be a vaccine in about a year, at which point people will be far less fearful of socializing.
I too have a young child. 1. my sister works in the medical field in manhattan— lots of people in the medical community are expecting a second wave in the fall. It takes a long time to get a vaccine.
2. Education: I work in the education field in nyc. The city is losing lots of money. Schools might not be able to open in the fall which will greater impact the economy. we have over a million kids in nyc school system. You can’t JUST open one school at a time. It doesn’t work like that.
3. People are losing jobs in New York City. They won’t be able to afford high rents like they did before.
We could possibly see a repeat of the 80s again. Now I think it’s about the 90s which is fine for me. Not the 80s though!
This is all JUST my opinion. I live in a very nice area in Brooklyn. Many of my neighbors with families are moving out.
Property Manager · NY · Member since 2019 · 12 posts · 3 votes
5y
Hi All,
Fairly new to BP and came across this thread. Just wanted to chime in to see if anyones outlook has changed for NYC now that we are in 2021. I think we are still very much at status quo. I work as a residential property manager in Manhattan and while apartments have been slowly renting in Manhattan the rent concessions have been huge. Anyone looking to rent right now knows they have the upper hand. But to me Manhattan overall still feels pretty dead. I mean people are still coming in to work but the city's livelihood is gone. The outdoor restaurants gig was only good for so long and a lot of restaurants may not make it through the winter. I do believe that overall the city will bounce back but as others have mentioned the rent regulations are something that may be here well past Covid.
I own and live in South Brooklyn and while the feel here is not as bad as Manhattan it still feels like we are far from out of the woods. Once the vaccine becomes mainstream and schools finally open things will start to pickup again. I have 3 little ones and lets just zoom schooling wasn't fun.
With all that said I am currently exploring areas of Upstate NY to invest in. Specifically near the HUnter/Windham ski resorts.
Lender · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 957 votes
5y
@Daniel Cohen, I feel your pain. Childcare & zoom school has been a nightmare for my wife & I.
I own something in Hyde Park, NY (just north of Poughkeepsie) and it has been doing well during the pandemic. I like the area you mentioned, because I feel that domestic/local travel will be the first to resume, so if you can find something near the ski resorts to airbnb, I think it could be a huge success.
Rental Property Investor · Poughkeepsie, NY · Member since 2013 · 262 posts · 96 votes
5y
I have three duplexes in poughkeepsie soon to hit market. I am buying a 10 unit and looking at another 5 in a couple days. I like the bigger units so much better