Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
15y
Putting this in perspective, this issue is about state laws not being followed, where due diligence is required. SOme states, like Missouri, requires no due diligence at all, in fact, the Trustee is held harmless from his duties! Any lender can tell the trustee that a borrower is behind without proving anything. The Trustee starts the process, notice of demand, publication and then off to the courthouse for the sale. The borrower will have to get a court order to stop the process, the Trustess has no obligation to even speak to the borrower. Any claim for any unlawful foreclosure falls on the lender.
If someone is behind on the payment, they defaulted in any state! If in any state the process is accomplished illegally, what's the damage? We will see. Even if the property was given back to the borrower, they are still in default and to a greater amount now than then, they still can't pay, so they still lose the property! What's the point?
In some more liberal states, I can see some penalty, maybe based on any deficiency amounts sought by the lender, maybe for a few days of being out of the house earlier than they would have been and maybe a hassel factor.
In some states, I would imagine that the state would move in, fine the lender and keep the money for the state and the borrower would receive nothing, as is customary in Missouri. We have some real crooks in Jefferson City!
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
15y
The document flaws at GMAC were stated by a GMAC employee in a deposition as part of a lawsuit - I tend to believe they are real, since the document counts are fairly large, and the practices used to keep up with that volume will almost certainly lead to short-cuts. The fact that the GMAC employee did not have a record of what he signed, but that the notary did is another telling piece. Oh, and let's not forget that the signatures aren't being done under the watchful eye of the notary - the documents get pre-signed, and then sent to the notary in a batch. Is that notary really 100% certain of who actually signed, as they are supposed to be?
The JP Morgan Chase situation is probably very similar IMO.
Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes
15y
Do people who've already bought REOs need to be concerned, or is the title policy enough to cover anything that could occur? Perhaps if lawsuits are filed they could reach back to the past.
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2009 · 624 posts · 559 votes
15y
That is a great question...
In today's world where everyone wants to be a victim it is entirely possible that the previous homeowners or some activist driven organization could contest these type of foreclosures.
I have not heard or read anything on the subject... but perhaps others have and can point out the source of that info.
This entire topic further reinforces the need for buyers to have their own title insurance policy.
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
15y
Not an attorney or title agent - but I will offer my opinion here.
I am in a judicial state. As such, all cases get heard before a judge and things must follow the legal process. Mistakes may happen, and that offers the plaintiff or defendant an opportunity to appeal any decisions that are made. These are civil (not criminal) cases, so I believe that once the deadline for appeals passes the decision then is final.
Now, if there are damages to be sought by somebody long after the cases have been through the courts - in that case the lenders (and the GSEs too) might be forced to pay. I don't know if that will affect title any, but unless it is a quit claim deed there is some warranty provison for the seller to defend the title (so that falls upon the lender or GSE).
But the whole thing sure sounds like the stuff that class action suits are made from.
So what happens now? While it's good that people aren't being kicked out their homes (at least temporarily?), especially if things were done improperly, someone has to absorb the losses of those missing mortgage payments...new gov't bailouts for too big to fail JP Morgan or BofA on the horizon?
And then what happens to the short sales? Will homeowners decide not to attempt to do SS's anymore if they think they can stay in the house?
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
15y
Putting this in perspective, this issue is about state laws not being followed, where due diligence is required. SOme states, like Missouri, requires no due diligence at all, in fact, the Trustee is held harmless from his duties! Any lender can tell the trustee that a borrower is behind without proving anything. The Trustee starts the process, notice of demand, publication and then off to the courthouse for the sale. The borrower will have to get a court order to stop the process, the Trustess has no obligation to even speak to the borrower. Any claim for any unlawful foreclosure falls on the lender.
If someone is behind on the payment, they defaulted in any state! If in any state the process is accomplished illegally, what's the damage? We will see. Even if the property was given back to the borrower, they are still in default and to a greater amount now than then, they still can't pay, so they still lose the property! What's the point?
In some more liberal states, I can see some penalty, maybe based on any deficiency amounts sought by the lender, maybe for a few days of being out of the house earlier than they would have been and maybe a hassel factor.
In some states, I would imagine that the state would move in, fine the lender and keep the money for the state and the borrower would receive nothing, as is customary in Missouri. We have some real crooks in Jefferson City!
Real Estate Investor · Bergen County, NJ · Member since 2008 · 390 posts · 72 votes
15y
This is pretty big news for the whole housing industry. Three big banks announced they are holding off on proceeding with the foreclosure process for the time being because bank employees/executives weren't properly reviewing each case properly among other things.
I had a property under contract which I believe was serviced by Chase, one of the banks that announced it is halting all foreclosure proceedings and was informed by the LA that I'm not going to be able to close on this property until this gets straightened out.. so I can wait and keep it UC or cancel my contract.
This might be just the start, I feel that all other banks are going to get enormous pressure from the government and public to follow suit...
What is everyones thoughts and how do you see this playing out both for the investors, real estate professionals and for homeowners affected?
Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes
15y
Originally posted by Robert Mack:
This is pretty big news for the whole housing industry. Three big banks announced they are holding off on proceeding with the foreclosure process for the time being because bank employees/executives weren't properly reviewing each case properly among other things.
I had a property under contract which I believe was serviced by Chase, one of the banks that announced it is halting all foreclosure proceedings and was informed by the LA that I'm not going to be able to close on this property until this gets straightened out.. so I can wait and keep it UC or cancel my contract.
This might be just the start, I feel that all other banks are going to get enormous pressure from the government and public to follow suit...
What is everyones thoughts and how do you see this playing out both for the investors, real estate professionals and for homeowners affected?
I'm wondering if it will speed up the short sale process as banks try to find another way to dump the properties. Or, some homeowners may not bother trying to do a short sale anymore if they think there's a chance they can stay because of this.
It's hard to imagine that this is anymore more than a delay for a month or two--wouldn't it lead to another bailout banking crisis otherwise?
Real Estate Investor · Aurora, CO · Member since 2010 · 175 posts · 92 votes
15y
The latest word is that it's not just GMAC, BofA and Chase but all of them are worried they will lose their bailout money over this screwup. They're hiring warm bodies like crazy to examine the documents and plan to have it resolved in 30-45 days.
My insider didn't have much hope for my fannie mae deal sailing through without being stalled.
Landlord · Seattle, WA · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
The sheer number of foreclosures was bound to have some paperwork or logistics problems. Since it has been made public though there will be some real effort to make sure it is right in the mean time this is going to create lots of problems.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Diane J.:
The latest word is that it's not just GMAC, BofA and Chase but all of them are worried they will lose their bailout money over this screwup. They're hiring warm bodies like crazy to examine the documents and plan to have it resolved in 30-45 days.
My insider didn't have much hope for my fannie mae deal sailing through without being stalled.
About six weeks ago I got a call from an old friend who does compliance audits asking if I would be interested in hitting the road....LOL! Then if I'd be interested in doing reviews at home....Retired is retired! He needs help, so if anyone has experience, let me know and I will pass it along!
Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
15y
Sounds like we'll hear a big announcement tues-wed. I'm sure the administration will come up with a rapid fix. I just worry about how much NEW damage that will create. Rich
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Diane J.:
My insider didn't have much hope for my fannie mae deal sailing through without being stalled.
I have a Fannie deal scheduled to close tomorrow or Wednesday. The HUD-1 is currently waiting for asset manager signature. Will let you know what happens!
Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes
15y
Originally posted by J Scott:
Originally posted by Diane J.:
My insider didn't have much hope for my fannie mae deal sailing through without being stalled.
I have a Fannie deal scheduled to close tomorrow or Wednesday. The HUD-1 is currently waiting for asset manager signature. Will let you know what happens!
REO I bid on a couple of weeks ago (was outbid by another buyer) was "pending" and now changed to "temporarily off market" due to the foreclosure freeze. IndyMac bank.
Wholesaler · Fort Myers, Cape Coral, Naples, FL · Member since 2009 · 185 posts · 33 votes
15y
I had an offer this morning and another one a few days ago on properties that were pulled off the market.
This issue has many different aspects, so it will indeed be interesting. One of the most disturbing is the accusation of fraud of the banks in forging documents in order to proceed with the foreclosures.
Congress has tried to rush through HR 3808 which basically is going to let the banks off the hook. Obama vetoed it, but watch for it to come back.
Good ol' Brian & Frank discuss it in this short video:
wow, we were working with PNC bank for past 2 weeks and was still in process of negotiations on reo homme; it looked liked we were going to get the property; till it pulled it off the market. Now, how long will this last, will/when will the bank relist the properties with same MLS number? Do we negotiate the whole process again?
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by stealthreinvest:
J Scott and others that were due to close on REOs this week, were you able to close?
My closing (on a Fannie Mae REO) was schedule for last week, but was pushed back due to a mistake on the HUD (you'd think that should be a quick fix, but the asset manager is taking his time signing the new HUD).
We're now scheduled to close tomorrow, and there's no indication that there will be any problems. But, I'll post a follow-up once we're officially closed or if anything comes up...