SFR Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tom Cullen:
Whatever we did prior to establishing the FED (and starting the income tax) in 1913 can't be much worse than what we have now.
Since I wasn't around then, I can't really compare it to today. But there were apparently 5 recessions in the 15-20 years prior to establishing the Federal Reserve, so it doesn't sound like it was all "peaches and cream" before then.
Could be, but at the time of the Fed creation, we were under the Gold Standard, so the Fed couldn't just create money out of nothing, i.e., it had to be backed by gold. It wasn't until 1971 that our currency was taken completely off the Gold Standard, but I understand the gold reserves backing up the currency had shrunk to such a small percentage, it didn't make that big a difference.
I've heard opinions that say the Fed should be taken completely out of private hands (the member banks), but that would mean giving all control to the government. [[[Shudder}}}
SFR Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tom Cullen:
Whatever we did prior to establishing the FED (and starting the income tax) in 1913 can't be much worse than what we have now.
Since I wasn't around then, I can't really compare it to today. But there were apparently 5 recessions in the 15-20 years prior to establishing the Federal Reserve, so it doesn't sound like it was all "peaches and cream" before then.
Could be, but at the time of the Fed creation, we were under the Gold Standard, so the Fed couldn't just create money out of nothing, i.e., it had to be backed by gold. It wasn't until 1971 that our currency was taken completely off the Gold Standard, but I understand the gold reserves backing up the currency had shrunk to such a small percentage, it didn't make that big a difference.
I've heard opinions that say the Fed should be taken completely out of private hands (the member banks), but that would mean giving all control to the government. [[[Shudder}}}
Mobile Home Investor · Spanaway, WA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 578 votes
15y
Seems like the biggest depression was after the creation of the FED system in 1929. People jumping out the windows as thay had lost everything. Look at the mess we are in today. The free enterprise system cannot function with too many cooks putting their solution in the stewpot! Let the system function without outside interference and see if things start to straighten out. Or perhaps we have become a nation of government dependent individuals.
Seems to me the FED was created by certain rich individuals to have a way to control our country's monetary system. Creating money out of thin air is fine if handled properly, but mishandled and look where we end up.
Perhaps if we abolish the system it would be better?
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tom Cullen:
They got off the gold standard so they could run deficits each and every year. Prior to that, there had been years with deficits. Usually in times of war. But after the war, the budget was eventually balanced. That all changed in the mid 60's. We have run budget deficits each and every year since then, with inflation each and every year.
This country has been in debt since at least the 1890s...
According to this, from 1950-1980, the debt stood pretty constant at around $3B. Starting in 1980, it skyrocketed, and hasn't looked back (other than 6 of the 8 years when Clinton enforced "pay as you go"):
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
I agree with Tom that inflation is a stealth tax. Mitch's question about what would be better is a good one too.
Why is The Fed buying treasuries from Goldman Sachs instead of The Treasury? The video is funny to me because you can't do anything but shake your head and laugh now...SAD!
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
Fair enough Tom...how about being the bigger guy and just letting it go?
The thread is supposed to be about what I thought was a funny video on The Fed. If you want to attack or defend The Fed it is fair game. Let's try to keep the mudslinging left versus right in the 5000 other threads we have on that topic. Cool?
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
Originally posted by Tom Cullen:
And it was the GOP controlled 104- 106th congresses that caused the budget surpluses in the mid to late 90's. And they had to drag BC along kicking and screaming to do it! I remember it well.
Other facts. The dems controlled the House from 1955 to 1995. That is 40 continuous years until Newt took the reins in 1995! The GOP have controlled the Senate only 10 years since the depths of the Great Depression in 1934. Anyway you slice it, the dems have pretty much controlled congress over the years (with a few intermittent spurts of GOP control) and bear most of the blame for all the deficit spending over that time.
This....This is not a political thread. It is a light-hearted thread on The Fed. Why does everything have to break down into a stark left versus right debate?
Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
15y
Ok, to get back on topic I ask you this:
Can we make the Federal Reserve actually Federal? In other words can our elected officials have more oversight into what goes on? Other than appointing the chairman/apologist I dont see what it has to do with the Federal Govt other than to be a creditor to the US Treasury.
Furthermore can the US Treasury just file bankruptcy now, and not pay the Federal Reserve?
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
The system certainly needs to be changed. Congress getting a license to spend until they drop because The Fed bails them out with stealth taxes is a recipe for a failed nation. With Ron Paul being the chairman of the monetary committee now hopefully there will be some traction on fixing the root of the problem.
Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
15y
Originally posted by Mr_Investor:
Yes the system needs to be changed starting by eliminating the Fed altogether.
I agree. Cant the treasury just stop payments to the Fed? If tax dollars arent used to pay down the interest on our ever increasing deficit, that would pretty much be the end of the Fed.
Although I cant help but worry that the folks at the top of that pyramid wont allow it. Thats why I am surprised that the mainstream media even discussed how money is created "Quantitative Easing".
You know what is awesome about the too big to fail banks (the ones that are in the FED)? They gave themselves cheap easy money to lend. The notes got sold off at a profit (paid right away). They got bailed out by our tax dollars (yay!). And now they get to seize all of the property back, and sell it again. :lol:
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
Chicken and egg...The point is that the system as-is is broken. I am not a subscriber to this "End the Fed" rhetoric. Those that spew that stuff don't ever seem to have a response for what system is better.
What is better? Please TRY to keep the politics out of your response too.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
You can focus on The Fed and do things rationally...instead of randomly turning things into a left versus right debate.
How will ending The Fed help? What would be the replacement? I personally think it would be easier to modify the current system instead of doing something like a wholesale change.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
Yeap...and would you prefer to go back to the standard of living we had prior to 1913? I think we have done okay for ourselves since then despite the fear mongering.
See my post above...Is there any evidence or argument you will accept that The Fed isn't a singular black hole that controls all motion in the universe or have the Edward Griffin and Ron Paul books destroyed any sense of impartial or coherent thinking?
I'm not saying I have all of the answers BTW....I am asking.
Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
15y
Where did I say that we have what we have because of deficit spending Tom? Please do not put words in my fingers to fit your agenda.
All you have to do is read about 7-10 posts above this one and you can see my proposal. I don't think The Fed is the boogeyman (sp?) like others do so I guess that will make me a liberal so that you can start tossing darts at me. If that is what you are thinking feel free to participate in other threads instead of this one.
Flipper/Rehabber · Seminole, FL · Member since 2010 · 859 posts · 316 votes
15y
Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
You can focus on The Fed and do things rationally...instead of randomly turning things into a left versus right debate.
How will ending The Fed help? What would be the replacement? I personally think it would be easier to modify the current system instead of doing something like a wholesale change.
I do not know what it would be replaced with, I would have to ask someone like Ron Paul. He probably doesent even have a good answer for that. I dont think it can be replaced actually.
"Central Banks" are international. There are central banks installed in most of the world now, and they control economies in many nations, much like they control ours. Of course the Federal Reserve is our central bank, and therefore will never be dismantled as it would muck everyone up.
If the system is salvageable from here thats fine. But I still think that the Fed should at least be transparent with Congress. Too much goes on without our elected representatives having any oversight.